If Man progresses to monkey, why is he not good at monkey things? At least partly??

[ripple the car]

Actually, on the surface human beings seem weak, however, we have a few traits that has lead us to dominate the globe.

At the physical level, we are unmatched at our ability to use tools. We can pick up a stick, a rock, a bone and use it as a weapon with superior hand-to-eye coordination that no animal on the planet can match. This is an incredible feat that 99% of the animals on this planet cannot do. We can also COMMUNICATE precisely with each other in ways unmatched by any animal.

We are also unmatched at mimicry, we can sound like pretty much ANY animal on the planet which is great for hunting or deception.

The ability to use tools combined with an ability to precisely communicate and coordinate are physical traits as a species that are infinitely more powerful than having 2-ton bite strength or claws or ability to run 40 mph...

It isn't that we aren't strong, but rather, we are "strong enough".
A human with a spear can take down a wolf. A few humans with spears can take down a bear. A small group of humans with spears can take down an elephant... And humans can "make" spears with pretty much anything.

We have a nice set of unaided locomotion abilities. True we aren't the fastest however we can travel across EVERY SURFACE of this world: Desert, mountain, forest, arctic tundra... We can climb trees, we can cross over ANY barrier, we can swim, and we can travel a slow but steady pace longer than a lot of animals, that is, we actually can track and wear animals down over time because we have better endurance.

Our vision isn't the best but it averages out to be really good compared to a lot of animals. We see in color which is a huge advantage for recognizing specifics about prey, the environment, etc. We see better in the dark then dogs and a lot of other animals (of course we can't get close to cats' abilities).

so yeah, on the surface humans may look weak, but we average out to be SUPERIOR to every other animal on the planet in regards to physical ability because we can COMBINE all of the abilities above and use them in a way that is unparalleled.

But pit us against a mob of hungry mice...

 

[Brightmoon]

My answer to those who promote unintelligent evolution is:
"An atheist is someone who believes a spoon is intelligently designed and created; but a myriad of complicated, interdependent living organisms, with 1000s of synergistic internal systems that only function properly when complete, resulted through some unthinking random process called evolution."

it would be nice if the people who complain about evolution actually understood it. Creationists have their own silly version of evolution. Scientists don’t use the creationist version . The creationists I talk to on a regular basis have mostly seen that inaccurate straw-man creationist version and they think it’s the scientific version

 

[Sparagmos]

it would be nice if the people who complain about evolution actually understood it. Creationists have their own silly version of evolution. Scientists don’t use the creationist version . The creationists I talk to on a regular basis have mostly seen that inaccurate straw-man creationist version and they think it’s the scientific version

Bingo.

 

[dstamps]

it would be nice if the people who complain about evolution actually understood it. Creationists have their own silly version of evolution. Scientists don’t use the creationist version . The creationists I talk to on a regular basis have mostly seen that inaccurate straw-man creationist version and they think it’s the scientific version

The self-serving nature infects everyone in this world to some degree--whether Christian, Scientist, Atheist, etc. Where the self-serving nature is expressed you will always find error in resulting conclusions and results relative to GOD's Purpose.

There was a time when "scientists" thought the sun revolved around the earth and the earth was flat. Anyone believing the scientists of today have everything correctly figured out is just as wrong as in the earlier time. The point is that they now know more than they did--they have evolved.

There was a time when Man thought there were many gods represented by many man-made objects. Commonsense tells me that Man is probably closer to understanding the Reality of GOD now than in the past--Man has evolved.

 

[Brightmoon]

The self-serving nature infects everyone in this world to some degree--whether Christian, Scientist, Atheist, etc. Where the self-serving nature is expressed you will always find error in resulting conclusions and results relative to GOD's Purpose.

There was a time when "scientists" thought the sun revolved around the earth and the earth was flat. Anyone believing the scientists of today have everything correctly figured out is just as wrong as in the earlier time. The point is that they now know more than they did--they have evolved.

There was a time when Man thought there were many gods represented by many man-made objects. Commonsense tells me that Man is probably closer to understanding the Reality of GOD now than in the past--Man has evolved.

Most scientists would laugh at the idea that we have figured out everything. The more we figure out stuff the more questions it generates that need to be answered

 

[Brightmoon]

As far as op . Humans don’t act like monkeys because we’re physically very different. The biggest difference is that monkeys are quadrupeds. They walk on all fours. They have the narrow shoulders and pointed rib cage that allows their body weight to be over their legs just like a dog’s doesThe scapula is on the side as well. Monkeys can’t fully straighten out their elbows either.
the bone actually prevents that. Nor do they have the range of motion of human or other ape arms .

 

[dstamps]

Most scientists would laugh at the idea that we have figured out everything. The more we figure out stuff the more questions it generates that need to be answered

My point was that there is most likely considerable error in what Man thinks he knows.

 

[expos4ever]

Yeah... my husband has always pointed out that for supposedly "evolved" creatures we are remarkably weak, defeatable, squishy, slow, confined to walking for normal unaided locomotion, and have no cool quills or spikes.

Do you see these weaknesses as evidence against evolution. If so, can you please explain why?

 

[expos4ever]

If we come from monkeys then we should share many traits from them, like we should have the strength they have so on.

No. First, we do not come from monkeys. Second, even if we did, what matters is fitness for our respective environments - if the monkeys and their descendents end up in different environments, evolutionary pressure will select for different characteristics. But, in any event, we do share a lot of characteristics with monkeys.

 

[expos4ever]

My answer to those who promote unintelligent evolution is:
"An atheist is someone who believes a spoon is intelligently designed and created; but a myriad of complicated, interdependent living organisms, with 1000s of synergistic internal systems that only function properly when complete, resulted through some unthinking random process called evolution."

Again, evolution is not entirely random - why do the anti-evolution crowd stubbornly repeat clearly untrue things such as this notion that evolution is "random", or that we descended from apes and monkeys.

Neither of these is true.

 

[The Barbarian]

Yeah... my husband has always pointed out that for supposedly "evolved" creatures we are remarkably weak, defeatable, squishy, slow, confined to walking for normal unaided locomotion,

It's a fact that anywhere humans have chosen to live, they quickly became the dominant predator (usually killing off or driving off any potential competitors). So how did such a defeatable oraganism manage that? Tools. A pack of humans armed with hafted stone tools is a formidable predator, one that every animal quickly learns to avoid. Then, too, we learned to form partnerships with canids, which made us an even greater threat to other animals.

And while we are slow, we are quite capable of hounding prey to exhaustion. Some coastal Indian tribes did just that, following deer for days until they collapsed.

and have no cool quills or spikes.

Not only do we make cool "quills and spikes" but anatomically modern humans can hurl them with remarkable force and accuracy. And atlatls and bows greatly increase the distance and force. There were hominins making tools before our particular species existed.

 

[Brightmoon]

My point was that there is most likely considerable error in what Man thinks he knows.

Not in the sense that I think you meant . We actually have figured out a lot but it’s incomplete not inaccurate .

Again, evolution is not entirely random - why do the anti-evolution crowd stubbornly repeat clearly untrue things such as this notion that evolution is "random", or that we descended from apes and monkeys.

Neither of these is true.

humans actually are one of the great apes . Your statement is incorrect. The apes are a type of Old World monkey as they evolved out of that lineage. If you grandpa’s name was Smith you’re still part of the Smith lineage even if your last name is now Jones

 

[Great_Depression]

I haven't read all three pages yet but I starting to really like this forums as I keep seeing so many things similiar that I also think of, most of in the last few weeks.

I don't believe that mankind has evolved the way most scientist say. God created man. There, in my opinion, has never been a 'cave man' the way scientist or movies represent them. Walking around with clubs going 'ugh'. To me that is ridiculous.

Take for example the native americans. Completwly cut off from all of society until the English settlers and yes by western standards they were uncivilized. But not really. They had family structures, hierarchy, villages, customs, languages. Where did their evolution come from and why were they (what appars) so much further behind western and asian cultures? Why did western cultures evilve so much faster? Basically what I'm saying is that if any people would have been cave men it would have been native americans and even they were still pretty much civilized.

Now to my second point, I do believe men overall can become more intelligent or more dumb. Think back to how smart the Egyptians were for their time and how much progress they made. Gap. Then the Greeks. Gap. And then the super empire of Rome. Then you had that big chunk of time called the dark ages (1000 years). What happened there? Did men just become dumber or what? Then out of no where the enlightenment, the agebof reason, and even religious reform started, or one could say started back. Now look how much progress we have made since the beginning of that. The last roughly 500 years. Are we about to peak and have another gap period. Who knows.

One thing I like to do when people say " how could they have kept a polar bear and a lion alive on a boat for 40 days? They come from differnt climates"

I just look at them and say "Is it possible today?" Even if they don't want to show it you can see that quick look in their eye.

 

[Sparagmos]

I haven't read all three pages yet but I starting to really like this forums as I keep seeing so many things similiar that I also think of, most of in the last few weeks.

I don't believe that mankind has evolved the way most scientist say. God created man. There, in my opinion, has never been a 'cave man' the way scientist or movies represent them. Walking around with clubs going 'ugh'. To me that is ridiculous.

Take for example the native americans. Completwly cut off from all of society until the English settlers and yes by western standards they were uncivilized. But not really. They had family structures, hierarchy, villages, customs, languages. Where did their evolution come from and why were they (what appars) so much further behind western and asian cultures? Why did western cultures evilve so much faster? Basically what I'm saying is that if any people would have been cave men it would have been native americans and even they were still pretty much civilized.

Now to my second point, I do believe men overall can become more intelligent or more dumb. Think back to how smart the Egyptians were for their time and how much progress they made. Gap. Then the Greeks. Gap. And then the super empire of Rome. Then you had that big chunk of time called the dark ages (1000 years). What happened there? Did men just become dumber or what? Then out of no where the enlightenment, the agebof reason, and even religious reform started, or one could say started back. Now look how much progress we have made since the beginning of that. The last roughly 500 years. Are we about to peak and have another gap period. Who knows.

One thing I like to do when people say " how could they have kept a polar bear and a lion alive on a boat for 40 days? They come from differnt climates"

I just look at them and say "Is it possible today?" Even if they don't want to show it you can see that quick look in their eye.

I think your conclusions are drawn from a mistaken understanding of history and how evolution works. You’re just tearing down a straw man.

 

[Danielwright2311]

No. First, we do not come from monkeys. Second, even if we did, what matters is fitness for our respective environments - if the monkeys and their descendents end up in different environments, evolutionary pressure will select for different characteristics. But, in any event, we do share a lot of characteristics with monkeys.

And that is my whole point, its funny, We both agree on the same subject, but you still lecture me in it.

 

[Danielwright2311]

you’ve just proved that you don’t understand hominid anatomy

Not only do i understand it, but I do not think you understand it one bit, if you did, you would see if we evolved from anything, we would share all its traits. The thing is, Humans, only have human traits.

 

[Great_Depression]

I think your conclusions are drawn from a mistaken understanding of history and how evolution works. You’re just tearing down a straw man.

How so, on both?

 

[Sparagmos]

Not only do i understand it, but I do not think you understand it one bit, if you did, you would see if we evolved from anything, we would share all its traits. The thing is, Humans, only have human traits.

Uh, even your own child doesn’t have all of your traits...

 

[Sparagmos]

How so, on both?

“Cave men” existed ages and ages before the people we call “native Americans.”

You have left out Eastern/Asian civilization when you say there were large gaps in the development of civilization. For instance, during the so called “dark age” of western civilization, China was experiencing a golden age of progress under the Tang Dynasty. What about the Persian empire, the Angkor empire, the Byzantine empire, the mesoamerican empires?

Scroll down in the link to the timeline and you can see all of the civilizations all over the world.

World History Timeline | Essential Humanities

The dark ages were from around 500 -1000 CE, only about 500 years (which were only “dark” in one part of the world.
Dark Ages (historiography) - Wikipedia

Even within western civilization, you jumped from the dark ages to the enlightenment and skipped the Renaissance...?

Anyway, what does this have to do with evolution? Even if a worldwide dark age existed, why would that disprove evolution?

 

[Danielwright2311]

Uh, even your own child doesn’t have all of your traits...

Yes they do, they are copies of you, or me. A child is born with two different set of traits mixed together.

But that does not prove your point to evolution, it is just a stone wall to the argument.