So you claim to fully understand God then? Ok, please explain GOD to us, we want to know everything.
(again, the only reason you will not accept the trinity is because you won't until you fully understand it, which is impossible).
Posted by ed: You are NOT being RATIONAL fow. You quote a version of John 1:18 which says that the "one and only God" is at the Father's side.
Thats what the Bible says ed
Posted by ed: I know and believe that there is ONLY ONE God. Then, who are the "two things" that you said finish first place together at the end of a race and ared of EQUAL speed?
well ed.... Christ says that HE is the Alapha and the Omega... the Beginning and the End... the First and the Last..... as does the Father. I ask you ed... are they not claiming the saim thing??? if two things come in first in a race... are they not of equal speed??? simple
Posted by ed: God EXALTED Jesus for His glory. God put ALL things UNDER Jesus for His glory. God did NOT give His glory to anotherwhen He EXALTED Jesus. Jesus and God are TWO separate and DISTINCT (different) beings. One is a MAN, the other is God
Well ed... You say that He didn't, but He says that He has... God became nothing and then subjected Himself to death ed... the Father will not be in the presence of sin... so He made Himself nothing... yes...becoming subject to the penalty of men... the Son of God, who is the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS!!!
ed says they are two separate and DISTINCT (different) things
Christ says that He and the Father are ONE.
you simply cannot believe that God would become nothing for you... I care for you ed... I am not against you... I'd even say 'love' if it wasn't for the fact that you might think it weird.
tell me ed... Can a General rightly order men into a battle and tell them to go forth courageously if he himself knows that he will not go with them??? It is done...but is it honorable??? Is it not those who see the battle and are steadfast that are honored as heros???
Originally posted by fieldsofwind
not really kain... you see Christ says in His word that He made Himself, nothing!... to take on the nature of a man... to die for us..
He is the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS
He is the Alpha and the Omega... the Beginning and the End... the First and the Last... He is the Word of God who is God
God says that He is the Alpha and the Omega... so if two things finish a race in first place... are they not of equal speed???
and God says that He will not give His glory to another.... He has said that before Him no gods were formed, and neither will there be any after Him...
He alone is God... and He became a man...
Do you not believe that God can become a man??? To die for you
I believe Him...
Originally posted by gunnysgt
10. They also believe in "soul sleep," a belief that at death, the souls dies. There is no consciousness.
Originally posted by gunnysgt
10. They also believe in "soul sleep," a belief that at death, the souls dies. There is no consciousness. (A belief of the Seventh-Day Adventist Church - Ellen G. White).
Berean Ministries [/B]
Originally posted by Se7en
How in the world is this NOT a Biblically based belief???
To respond to the several ungrammatical, illogical, misrepresentations in this post requires a thread of its own. Click this (Link) for page one of my response. And stay tuned for further installments.Originally posted by Kain
The relavent title for God used in Exodus is "I am who I am."
The Greek word above translated conveniently as "I am" is, in the context of other verses understood to be "I am he." The same words are used by people other than Christ.
In proper wording, the verse becomes "Before Abraham came to be, I am he"
This verse has Jesus telling the Jews that God's divine plan for the messiah existed before Abraham and manifested in him.
Other support for this interpretation can be found in Revelations.
Rev 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
As you can see here, Jesus wasn't literally slain before the foundation of the world. This is another example that shows a divine plan of God concerning the messiah that existed before Christ was born.
You don't have to accept this interpretation. But by not doing so, you call Jesus himself a liar who said only the Father is God. "Only" is an exclusive word.
Originally posted by gunnysgt
It also seems that soul sleepers have a faith problem toward God. To think a loving God would not punish sinners means they do not trust God's fairness. Neither do they have the faith to trust His infinite wisdom.
Originally posted by Se7en
This accusation is absolutely laughable
I asked you to explain how your response was self contradictory and shot your own argument in the foot. You evidently do not realize that it is. You say, if God created a boulder so big He can't lift it, his omnipotence is lost., then presume to give a mini lecture on mathematics. A science, oh BTW, devised by mankind to explain the known world. If God is, as you have already stated, omnipotent then nothing, not your human concept of percentages or logic, absolutely nothing, can limit His power.Posted by Kain
This feeble attempt does nothing to my argument. If God created a boulder so big He can't lift it, his omnipotence is lost. Uncreating and recreating elsewhere isn't lifting. But this is a logical falacy.
From the language definition of percent Can any man made language definition, rule, law, precept, etc. limit Gods omnipotence? Your explanation only applies if we are talking about apples, oranges, etc. but God is not an apple or an orange. This response expresses a thought about God and you are convinced that thought is correct. But God said;The same applied to percentage. From the language definition of percent, it is anything from 0 part of a whole to the whole entirely. The percentage divides one whole into any number of pieces.
Another misrepresentation. Jesus said He was the son of man and the son of God. Was Jesus 100 percent son of man and, at the same time, 100 percent son of God ? Or was it 50/50, 60/40, or some other ratio? Is this a logical fallacy also?To say that God is one whole AND another whole is a logical falacy.
I assume you are referring to Numbers 23:19. But this one verse does not say God is not a man<period> as you have misstated. The statement is not absolute but qualified, God is not a man, that he should lie or repent.. This verse was addressed to a specific situation over 1000 years BC. Nothing in the verse, or the entire Bible, precludes the omnipotent God, sometime afterward, from humbling Himself, making himself of no reputation, and taking upon Himself the form of a servant, and being made in the likeness of men: (paraphrase, Philp 2:7)God is not a man. Scripture also makes this clear.
making three distinct wholes. Three gods. Three gods. Three gods. The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!As I have said before I have never encountered any anti-Trinitarian, anywhere, who has the integrity, or is it the intellectual capacity, to actually learn what the Trinity is and discuss it honestly and knowledgeably.But according to the gospel of trinity, the trinity god is both 100% man and 100% god(and 100% spirit) making three distinct wholes.
It is not I who is rewriting scripture.
Originally posted by OldShepherd
Another misrepresentation. Jesus said He was the son of man and the son of God. Was Jesus 100 percent son of man and, at the same time, 100 percent son of God ? Or was it 50/50, 60/40, or some other ratio? Is this a logical fallacy also?
I assume you are referring to Numbers 23:19. But this one verse does not say God is not a man<PERIOD> as you have misstated. The statement is not absolute but qualified, God is not a man, that he should lie or repent.. This verse was addressed to a specific situation over 1000 years BC. Nothing in the verse, or the entire Bible, precludes the omnipotent God, sometime afterward, from humbling Himself, making himself of no reputation, and taking upon Himself the form of a servant, and being made in the likeness of men: (paraphrase, Philp 2:7)
FYI, Jesus referred to the Father as a man in the N.T. As a matter of fact, it was in the same chapter as this thread topic
John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
Jesus was a man and said that He was one of the two men and the Father was the other. I wonder why Jesus didnt say two witnesses instead of two men Maybe you can help Him out Kain, and put the right words in Jesus mouth.
making three distinct wholes. Three gods. Three gods. Three gods. The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!As I have said before I have never encountered any anti-Trinitarian, anywhere, who has the integrity, or is it the intellectual capacity, to actually learn what the Trinity is and discuss it honestly and knowledgeably.
[bIf the Trinity doctrine is so wrong then all you guys should be able to quickly and easily refute it, truthfully and honestly, as the old saying goes standing on one foot, with one hand tied behind your back.
The fact that every single one of you must resort to innuendo, misrepresentation, exaggeration, half truth, and out and out lies, clearly shows you have no valid argument, you are incapable of presenting a reasoned, rational, documented discussion of the Trinity. You claim to have the truth on your side. Lets see it!
You want to teach me math Pobre? God the Father, God the Creator, God the Savior, God the Redeemer, God the Lord of Hosts, and God the Holy. How many times do you count God in that sentence? Be honest please. You say it is the same God? Now you are catching on. What do I mean by person? According to the online dictionary. I see how rationally you can discuss things as a member of the only true church I wonder what four letter word starting with S you wrote there that got censored.Posted by Pobre
Do you know arithmetic OldShepherd? Yes or No! How MANY times is God stated in this statement: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. One or THREE? Only HONEST answers please!
When you say "ONE God in THREE "persons" what do you mean by "person?" Doesn't "person" actually mean GOD? Yes or No.
Let's cut out the [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] be HONEST as mature adults so we can teach our children to be HONEST themselves.
Originally posted by OldShepherd
I asked you to explain how your response was self contradictory and shot your own argument in the foot. You evidently do not realize that it is. You say, if God created a boulder so big He can't lift it, his omnipotence is lost., then presume to give a mini lecture on mathematics. A science, oh BTW, devised by mankind to explain the known world. If God is, as you have already stated, omnipotent then nothing, not your human concept of percentages or logic, absolutely nothing, can limit His power.
From the language definition of percent Can any man made language definition, rule, law, precept, etc. limit Gods omnipotence? Your explanation only applies if we are talking about apples, oranges, etc. but God is not an apple or an orange. This response expresses a thought about God and you are convinced that thought is correct. But God said;
Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Does that include your thoughts on percentages, logic, etc? Or do you know more that God?
Another misrepresentation. Jesus said He was the son of man and the son of God. Was Jesus 100 percent son of man and, at the same time, 100 percent son of God ? Or was it 50/50, 60/40, or some other ratio? Is this a logical fallacy also?
I assume you are referring to Numbers 23:19. But this one verse does not say God is not a man<period> as you have misstated. The statement is not absolute but qualified, God is not a man, that he should lie or repent.. This verse was addressed to a specific situation over 1000 years BC. Nothing in the verse, or the entire Bible, precludes the omnipotent God, sometime afterward, from humbling Himself, making himself of no reputation, and taking upon Himself the form of a servant, and being made in the likeness of men: (paraphrase, Philp 2:7)
FYI, Jesus referred to the Father as a man in the N.T. As a matter of fact, it was in the same chapter as this thread topic
John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
Jesus was a man and said that He was one of the two men and the Father was the other. I wonder why Jesus didnt say two witnesses instead of two men Maybe you can help Him out Kain, and put the right words in Jesus mouth.
making three distinct wholes. Three gods. Three gods. Three gods. The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!As I have said before I have never encountered any anti-Trinitarian, anywhere, who has the integrity, or is it the intellectual capacity, to actually learn what the Trinity is and discuss it honestly and knowledgeably.
By illegitimatizing what Trinitarians actually believe, you invalidate everything you say. How can anything you say be factual, truthful, or authoritative when you are incapable of accurately defining and addressing this one word? If the Trinity doctrine is so wrong then all you guys should be able to quickly and easily refute it, truthfully and honestly, as the old saying goes standing on one foot, with one hand tied behind your back.
The fact that every single one of you must resort to innuendo, misrepresentation, exaggeration, half truth, and out and out lies, clearly shows you have no valid argument, you are incapable of presenting a reasoned, rational, documented discussion of the Trinity. You claim to have the truth on your side. Lets see it!
Originally posted by OldShepherd
You want to teach me math Pobre? God the Father, God the Creator, God the Savior, God the Redeemer, God the Lord of Hosts, and God the Holy. How many times do you count God in that sentence? Be honest please. You say it is the same God? Now you are catching on.
What do I mean by person? According to the online dictionary. I see how rationally you can discuss things as a member of the only true church I wonder what four letter word starting with S you wrote there that got censored.[/b]
Main Entry: per·son
Pronunciation: 'p&r-s&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French persone, from Latin persona actor's mask, character in a play, person, probably from Etruscan phersu mask, from Greek prosOpa, plural of prosOpon face, mask -- more at PROSOPOPOEIA
Date: 13th century
1 : HUMAN, INDIVIDUAL -- sometimes used in combination especially by those who prefer to avoid man in compounds applicable to both sexes <CHAIRPERSON><SPOKESPERSON>
2 : a character or part in or as if in a play : GUISE
3 a : one of the three modes of being in the Trinitarian Godhead as understood by Christians b : the unitary personality of Christ that unites the divine and human natures
4 a archaic : bodily appearance b : the body of a human being; also : the body and clothing <UNLAWFUL search person the of>
5 : the personality of a human being : SELF
6 : one (as a human being, a partnership, or a corporation) that is recognized by law as the subject of rights and duties
7 : reference of a segment of discourse to the speaker, to one spoken to, or to one spoken of as indicated by means of certain pronouns or in many languages by verb inflection [/B]