If Jesus died for the world why does most of scripture say the opposite?

[Hammster]

The creation to be.

Interesting. So you think that the Godhead needed something outside itself to love?

 

[bling]

Do you think the stories about the man searching for his lost sheep refers to once believers?

God will search for people who know they are lost want to return, but do not know the way back like a lost sheep, but the lost son knew the way back and did not want to go back, so the father was not going to force his return.

 

[bling]

That doesn’t say that the lost sheep are hell bound. Though, the Shepherd won’t lose any sheep given to Him by His Father.

We have to not let our "doctrine" dictate our interpretation.

 

[zoidar]

Interesting. So you think that the Godhead needed something outside itself to love?

I don't know. For some reason God created the world, I believe to share his love. Is an artist's joy complete without his paintings?

What do you think?

 

[Hammster]

We have to not let our "doctrine" dictate our interpretation.

Then stop doing it.

 

[Hammster]

I don't know. For some reason God created the world, I believe to share his love. Is an artist's joy complete without his paintings?

What do you think?

It was to show His glory.

 

[Light of the East]

Another way to approach the question is to ask, "What did Christ accomplish by his sacrifice?" The Westminster Confession gives a nice answer:

The Lord Jesus, by his perfect obedience and sacrifice of himself, which he through the eternal Spirit once offered up unto God, hath fully satisfied the justice of his Father; and purchased not only reconciliation, but an everlasting inheritance in the kingdom of heaven, for all those whom the Father hath given unto him. - WCF 8.5​

And that is the wrong answer also. The work of Christ upon the Cross had nothing to do with some sense of penal justice and satiating God's wrath.

 

[Light of the East]

It was to show His glory.

So love had nothing to do with it.

 

[Hammster]

And that is the wrong answer also. The work of Christ upon the Cross had nothing to do with some sense of penal justice and satiating God's wrath.

It had a lot to do with it.

 

[Hammster]

So love had nothing to do with it.

Love is an attribute of God. He’s glorified when He loves, and when He is loved.

 

[agapelove]

Yup. There was no hope for him. And there was only no hope because God preplanned that he would betray Christ. But God also had used Pilate, the Pharisees, and the soldiers who crucified and mocked Jesus too. For without them executing Jesus there would have been no hope for anyone. Whether Christ died for the world or for his children. Nobody would be saved if not for the crucifixion of Jesus. They had to obey God 100% and later be punished for crucifying Gods son for the greater good or no hope would exist for humanity at all.

Yep we are the clay and He is the potter.

Romans 9:21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?

God purposed everyone before the foundation of the world, and I don't question why some people were purposed for glory and some for destruction (Judas, Pharoah) because I know it is ultimately for the good of His glory. BUT.... I think this distinction between the elect and non-elect is applicable to this age only for the glorification of God in the next age. To say that God creates some people to purposefully not save is just horribly wrong and a perversion of God's loving kindness and mercy.

 

[Light of the East]

It had a lot to do with it.

That is the corrupted Western theological view. The Eastern Church does not hold to this at all.

 

[agapelove]

It had a lot to do with it.

Don't you think the penal substitutionary theory is a bit outdated?

 

[Light of the East]

Love is an attribute of God. He’s glorified when He loves, and when He is loved.

Wrong again. It is not an "attribute." God IS love. Read your Bible more carefully.

 

[Hammster]

That is the corrupted Western theological view. The Eastern Church does not hold to this at all.

That’s your problem. You can ignore scripture at your peril. I will not.

 

[Hammster]

Don't you think the penal substitutionary theory is a bit outdated?

It’s as outdated as the Word of God.

 

[Hammster]

Wrong again. It is not an "attribute." God IS love. Read your Bible more carefully.

Do you understand what an attribute is?

 

[agapelove]

It’s as outdated as the Word of God.

I don't remember the Word of God telling me that God is a cosmic child abuser but somehow we love to see God this way.

 

[Hammster]

I don't remember the Word of God telling me that God is a cosmic child abuser but somehow we love to see God this way.

I certainly don’t.

 

[Light of the East]

Do you understand what an attribute is?

Do you know what the word "IS" means?