If ID is a theory

[DevotiontoBible]

Natural selection is the complete opposite of random, if that makes things clearer for you.

.

This time I won't say make up your mind. This time I'll say you are making an oxymoron. But you are doing the same thing. Which is it...a selection without intelligence or on purpose (the opposite of random)? You are saying there is an unintelligent selection that selected with a purpose!

 

[ChrisPelletier]

I've been perfectly clear. The designer is nature and circumstance; which lacks any form of intelligence and derives change via natural selection. It's more the illusion of design that anything, and can not rationally be called "intelligent".

That's what i thought. Just wanted to clear it up.

 

[ThePenguinMafia]

This time I won't say make up your mind. This time I'll say you are making an oxymoron. But you are doing the same thing. Which is it...a selection without intelligence or on purpose (the opposite of random)? You are saying there is an unintelligent selection that selected with a purpose!

No, I'm not. I don't know why this is so difficult for you to understand. Natural selection is not random because it is affected by things.

If your child, god forbid, were to have a chance mutation resulting in deformed lungs and foetal death, it would not pass these genes on. If your child developed a disease resistance gene in the middle of an epidemic then it would be more likely to pass this gene on, and so would his children if they too had the gene. This is not random, it's selective pressure.

The survival of genes is the purpose of selection. It doesn't care about the host in any other way than that of a vector. Genes are in a sense a mind (albeit one with no intelligence) of their own, trying to pass themselves onto the next generation.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Check the origins of the universe thread for the first bit. I'm a medical student, not a physics grad, and admit to not being able to understand physics to any acceptable degree.

I obtained my intellect because of the selection pressures towards it. You need only look at your roof to see the survival advantages of intelligence.

This isn't rocket science. You would have to admit you have no intelligence because you came from something that had no intelligence in itself to give you. But you have intelligence because you are a med student, therefore you came from something that had intelligence in itself to give you. Will you admit that much?

 

[Army of Juan]

Because the only explanation for the universe, other than evolution, is creationism.

Wrong.
There are many other explanations (and other creation myths) and besides, evolution just deals with biology, not the universe so even that's wrong.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Wrong.
There are many other explanations (and other creation myths) and besides, evolution just deals with biology, not the universe so even that's wrong.

Like what?

 

[ThePenguinMafia]

This isn't rocket science. You would have to admit you have no intelligence because you came from something that had no intelligence in itself to give you. But you have intelligence because you are a med student, therefore you came from something that had intelligence in itself to give you. Will you admit that much?

When you consider what your brain actually is, it's not that strange. My ability to think comes from the movement of ions. We don't need intelligence to move ions, as it is facilitated by mindless things.

I admit that humans came from something with intelligence, I came from something with intelligence and what I know came from something with intelligence. Primate ancestors, my parents and the extelligence of humanity.

 

[ChrisPelletier]

Like what?

Wasn't there something along the lines that this reality is just a resonance of our true spiritual plane? It was on the Daily Show when they had that Evolution Shmevolution debate.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

No, I'm not. I don't know why this is so difficult for you to understand. Natural selection is not random because it is affected by things.

If your child, god forbid, were to have a chance mutation resulting in deformed lungs and foetal death, it would not pass these genes on. If your child developed a disease resistance gene in the middle of an epidemic then it would be more likely to pass this gene on, and so would his children if they too had the gene. This is not random, it's selective pressure.

The survival of genes is the purpose of selection. It doesn't care about the host in any other way than that of a vector. Genes are in a sense a mind (albeit one with no intelligence) of their own, trying to pass themselves onto the next generation.

Just admit it. You are saying it is affected by things that have no aim, or purpose or design. That means they are random causes. You are saying it is by random chance that the fit become fit. They become fit by accident.

 

[ChrisPelletier]

Just admit it. You are saying it is affected by things that have no aim, or purpose or design. That means they are random causes. You are saying it is by random chance that the fit become fit. They become fit by accident.

Another miss. It's looking to be a shutout.

 

[DailyBlessings]

Just admit it. You are saying it is affected by things that have no aim, or purpose or design. That means they are random causes. You are saying it is by random chance that the fit become fit. They become fit by accident.

Actually, that is what you are saying. The only random part of the equation is the mutations themselves (and even this might not be random) the rest of the process is entirely ordered.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

When you consider what your brain actually is, it's not that strange. My ability to think comes from the movement of ions. We don't need intelligence to move ions, as it is facilitated by mindless things.

I admit that humans came from something with intelligence, I came from something with intelligence and what I know came from something with intelligence. Primate ancestors, my parents and the extelligence of humanity.

Where did man get the ability to love, to be patient, to reason? These are not found in an unintelligent nature. Nothing cannot cause something. You need to answer this, if you dare because you know where it will lead you to, right?

Good night.

 

[TooCurious]

I hope you won't mind terribly if I jump into this discussion?

Where did man get the ability to love, to be patient, to reason?

These traits are the natural result among a species of highly intelligent, highly social animals. You'll find similar logical and compassionate capabilities among dolphins.

These are not found in an unintelligent nature. Nothing cannot cause something.

That's like saying that I cannot draw a triangle because I am not, myself, triangular. Intelligence is not a substance that needs to be poured into a particular organism from an outside source. It is something that develops as a result of brain size and complexity.

You need to answer this, if you dare because you know where it will lead you to, right?

Um... where is it supposed to be "leading" us? I answered it, and it "led" me to dolphins and triangles.

Good night.

Goodnight!

 

[Erock83]

Random thought toward the order argument. Chaos seems to me to be simply the state of things that are not in equilibrium with each other, thus that lack of order or attempt to achieve equilibrium is what is defined by Chaos thus it must be governed by laws and rules like those of entropy which was referred to earlier. What I’m really saying is perhaps we view disorder incorrectly when there is a order to it just because we don’t understand the laws that govern it all. I think most scientist would agree that every system is always attempting to achieve equilibrium. That gives way to the idea that chaos is a move to order and not a system of disorder. If a given system is moving to order there must be laws that govern its actions.
One Love

 

[Tomk80]

This isn't rocket science. You would have to admit you have no intelligence because you came from something that had no intelligence in itself to give you. But you have intelligence because you are a med student, therefore you came from something that had intelligence in itself to give you. Will you admit that much?

What kind of twisted logic is this?

 

[Tomk80]

Just admit it. You are saying it is affected by things that have no aim, or purpose or design. That means they are random causes. You are saying it is by random chance that the fit become fit. They become fit by accident.

Having no aim=/=random.

You use the word random a lot. I don't think it means what you think it means.

 

[ImmortalTechnique]

intelligence isn't some mystical force- its a function of a sufficiently large complicated brain. We know a great deal about brain evolution, it isn't the mystery its claimed to be

 

[random_guy]

Random thought toward the order argument. Chaos seems to me to be simply the state of things that are not in equilibrium with each other, thus that lack of order or attempt to achieve equilibrium is what is defined by Chaos thus it must be governed by laws and rules like those of entropy which was referred to earlier. What I’m really saying is perhaps we view disorder incorrectly when there is a order to it just because we don’t understand the laws that govern it all. I think most scientist would agree that every system is always attempting to achieve equilibrium. That gives way to the idea that chaos is a move to order and not a system of disorder. If a given system is moving to order there must be laws that govern its actions.
One Love

Very well said. I think that too many people think chaos=random, orderless, when in fact there is order in chaos. Chaotic laws govern the motion of the winds on Jupiter, but through chaos, comes order, the Red Eye Storm.

 

[Split Rock]

Because the only explanation for the universe, other than evolution, is creationism.

False Dichotomy. What about the Flying Spagetti Monster...hmmm? They are those of us who have, by meatball revelation, come to understand that all life on Earth is due to the unintelligent whims of the FSM. Life on Earth can only be explained by Pasta.

By the way, are you now mixing up I.D (which says nothing about religion*cough*) with Creationism??

I haven't gotten to what kind of God is the designer. Just to show by logic that an intelligent designer is responsible for the universe. ID does not promote any one brand of religion it only comes to the logical conclusion of an intelligent designer.

You just told us it is the Christian God, since you said it is either Evolution of Creationism. Why are you confusing them if they have nothing to do with each other??

 

[Split Rock]

What kind of twisted logic is this?

It's called Creationism... or Intelligent Design... I can't tell, because DevotiontoBible uses the terms interchangably, for some reason..