If I have the Respect of every Creature, I have the respect of Evolution?

[Neogaia777]

So you cannot say with absolute certainty? Why not?

Due to not having any evidence that it does or does not exist or isn't so...

But if I was presented with more evidence of such...?

I would at least be open to believing it, or increasing the likelihood of there being such in my mind, etc...

Anyway, be back in bit...

God Bless!

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Due to not having any evidence that it does or does not exist or isn't so...

Bingo!

Now look at what I've been saying all along. Why do you expect me to have a different standard to you?

But if I was presented with more evidence of such...?

I would at least be open to believing it, or increasing the likelihood of there being such in my mind, etc...

Good for you. Have I ever said I am any different to you in that respect?

 

[Neogaia777]

Bingo!

Now look at what I've been saying all along. Why do you expect me to have a different standard to you?


Good for you. Have I ever said I am any different to you in that respect?

I guess I'll concede on that point, we just think the evidence or what is evident, or is not evident right now, is different I guess, and why should we argue that to no end, right...?

Anyway, thanks for the discussion and putting up with me... Really, I do appreciate it...

God Bless!

 

[VirOptimus]

I'm here to get down to "the truth"...

And it's "he" BTW...

God Bless!

No, you really arent.

You dont understand the basics of science, philosophy and theology and make incredibly ignorant preachy arguments.

You have already decided that your "truth" is correct without any evidence, i.e. its based on belief only, wich has no place in science.

 

[Neogaia777]

No, you really arent.

You dont understand the basics of science, philosophy and theology and make incredibly ignorant preachy arguments.

You have already decided that your "truth" is correct without any evidence, i.e. its based on belief only, wich has no place in science.

I think my beliefs are very scientific, but you believe what you want to believe and see what you want to see, or else "not see" I guess...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[VirOptimus]

I think my beliefs are very scientific, but you believe what you want to believe and see what you want to see, or else "not see" I guess...

Anyway,

God Bless!

Belief has no place in science.

 

[Neogaia777]

Belief has no place in science.

Theory or hypothesis have no place in science?

God Bless!

 

[VirOptimus]

Theory or hypothesis have no place in science?

God Bless!

In your own words, what does a scientific theory entails? What does a scientific hypothesis entail?

 

[Neogaia777]

In your own words, what does a scientific theory entails? What does a scientific hypothesis entail?

Possible evidence, etc, then a way to test and prove it, or that hypothesis or theory, etc, otherwise it just remains a hypothesis and/or theory, etc...

But not an invalid hypothesis and/or theory, etc...

God Bless!

 

[VirOptimus]

Possible evidence, etc, then a way to test and prove it, or that hypothesis or theory, otherwise it just remains a hypothesis and/or theory, etc...

But not an invalid hypothesis and/or theory, etc...

God Bless!

....

as I said, you are incredibly ignorant about even basic science.

Study the basics before trying to debate this again.

 

[Neogaia777]

Belief has no place in science.

So "belief" does have some kind of place in "science", etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

....

as I said, you are incredibly ignorant about even basic science.

Study the basics before trying to debate this again.

Whatvever man... you think just saying that or throwing that out there makes it so or somehow "true" or whatever...?

Anyway, whatever man,

God Bless!

 

[VirOptimus]

Whatvever man... you think just saying that or throwing that out there makes it so or somehow "true" or whatever...?

Anyway, whatever man,

God Bless!

I can only judge you by your posts.

I stand by my assesement.

 

[Neogaia777]

I can only judge you by your posts.

I stand by my assesement.

Whatever man...

God Bless!

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

And @Bungle_Bear

I see evidence of intelligence, and I'm just wondering if you guys say there is the possibility of intelligence, what do you base that on, etc...?

Or is your saying there is absolutely no possibility at all of any kind of intelligence at all, again, what do you base that on...?

And if there is that possibility, then, again, why or what makes you think there is or could be that possibility, etc...?

And were only discussing possibilities here at this point and not absolutes or absolute positive proofs at this point, etc...

You've said you think you see evidence of intelligence because you see order, but you seem unwilling or unable to explain how order implies intelligence or design. I know of many examples of order that arise without intelligence or design, so I find your claim to be unsubstantiated and unsupported.

The order we see arises from the rules of interaction of the fundamental forces and particles (quantum fields), which could, conceivably, have been arranged by some intelligence at the dawn of time.

But I see no reason to suppose that is the case - there is no evidence for this, it has no explanatory or predictive value, it's untestable, it's not a prediction of any successful theory, and it raises more questions than it answers (about this supposed intelligence, what it is, its origin and structure, what rules or rationale it follows, etc).

If you want to talk of possibilities, perhaps you could explain how you came to estimate the possibility of an immaterial, timeless, intelligent entity, being the originator of order, given that the only intelligence we know of is the product of billions of years of evolution of populations of organic beings in the ecosystems of a habitable planet?

We simply don't yet know why our world is the way it is, and until we have more evidence, ungrounded fanciful speculation seems pointless.

To call such reasoning 'stupid, ignorant, foolish, and arrogant' seems itself stupid, ignorant, foolish, and arrogant.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I just wanted you guys to know that "mine" would all fall perfectly in line with what you already know, or at the very least have heard of, or what you would know in your hearts to be true, or the truth, etc, and it would not go against any of it, etc...

It doesn't fall in line with anything I already know, beyond that some people have irrational beliefs.

What people 'know in their hearts to be true' is not for you to say. If you really want to know, just ask.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Just "look at the world around you", etc, and do so with no bias etc, and just tell me you don't "see it", etc...

Cause I submit the "evidence of an for intelligence" is "all and everything around you/me/us", etc...

I think you guys not being able to see it, or not wanting to see it, is due to some kind of personal bias of some kind, due to maybe some, possibly bad, personal experiences with maybe other so-called Christians maybe, or if not that, than "something else" or a lot of a lot of of other "something else's" maybe, etc...

Anyway, I do not think your opinions are by any means neutral or your looking at this totally neutrally by any means...

I think the "evidence" is all around us, that the "order of it all" indicates design, the fact that it can all be predicted and is all fully predictable and knowable by and through things like math and mathematics, etc, that the very reason we have the sciences in general, is due to order and design, and indicates an/the intelligence behind that order or design, etc, or that there is intelligent order behind that design, etc...

You guys don't think so, or you disagree...?

See my previous responses.

What you think you can see and what you think about our opinions is of little interest unless you can give a reasonable explanation for it, with supporting evidence.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I do and did and do apologize for some or language I used, it came from a place of frustration, and I was not just talking about you guys, in fact much less about you guys than I was "some others", but anyway, I shouldn't have done it or said it and I am do apologize and I am sorry, K... Please forgive me, K...

I'll happily accept your apology if you at least make an effort to respond to my previous requests to:

1. Explain how the intelligent creator you claim to exist satisfies any of the criteria I gave for a good explanation.

Or

2. Explain how order implies design, as you suggested.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

So "belief" does have some kind of place in "science", etc...

Strictly, no.

 

[Neogaia777]

I'm going to "wash my hands" of this thread, I'm pretty much done here anyway, I told how I think the order in all of it implies or indicates design and an intelligence or intelligent mind behind it all, etc...

Something doesn't come from nothing, and order does not come about without some kind of intelligence or intelligent mind having been or behind it all, etc, especially "this kind of order" that we see in science and the natural world, or in the universe large and small, etc, etc, etc...

Anyway, you either accept or reject that I guess, but either way, I've said what I was going to say (about that already), etc, etc, etc, and I think I'm done here...

Anyway,

God Bless!