If I believe that Jesus died for my sins and rose again am I permanently saved?

[bcbsr]

You're free to hold that opinion and promote it if you like.

I said Paul was a terrible evangelist - he was. .

And is it also your opinion that Jesus was a "terrible evangelist" because he offended people so much that they crucified him, and even his own disciples abandoned him at the end of his life?

"The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that what it does is evil." John 7:7

Many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?"... From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him. John 6:66

If popularity is the measure of a successful evangelist, then it seems you would have to say that both Paul and Jesus was terrible evangelists.

I think what the Christian community needs are more "terrible evangelists". Too many evangelists are out for popularity.

 

[DingDing]

You asked,
If I believe that Jesus died for my sins and rose again am I permanently saved?

The short answer is, 'No'. If this is all you believe, then, 'no', you are likely not saved.

Sorry for creating a duplicated thread (I need a quick answer)
And are we to trust Paul's gospel?
Is salvation permanent?

So where do you get this? What have you been taught is "Paul's gospel"?, and where do you get that this is permanent (in other words, not reversible)?

 

[FreeGrace2]

You asked,
If I believe that Jesus died for my sins and rose again am I permanently saved?

The short answer is, 'No'. If this is all you believe, then, 'no', you are likely not saved.



So where do you get this? What have you been taught is "Paul's gospel"?, and where do you get that this is permanent (in other words, not reversible)?

Paul taught that salvation is irreversible in Romans.

He noted 3 different gifts of God:
spiritual gifts in 1:11
justification in 3:24 an 5:15,16,17 and
eternal life in 6:23

Then he stated that God's gifts and call are irrevocable in 11:29.

Regarding God's call, Paul was clear that God's call is for both Jew and Gentile, per Rom 1:5 and 9:25.

Therefore, we can conclude that both God's call and God's gifts are for both Jews and Gentiles. Both of which are irrevocable.

 

[EmSw]

Paul taught that salvation is irreversible in Romans.

He noted 3 different gifts of God:
spiritual gifts in 1:11
justification in 3:24 an 5:15,16,17 and
eternal life in 6:23

Then he stated that God's gifts and call are irrevocable in 11:29.

Regarding God's call, Paul was clear that God's call is for both Jew and Gentile, per Rom 1:5 and 9:25.

Therefore, we can conclude that both God's call and God's gifts are for both Jews and Gentiles. Both of which are irrevocable.

How many times are you going to take Romans 11:29 out of context?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
"Paul taught that salvation is irreversible in Romans.

He noted 3 different gifts of God:
spiritual gifts in 1:11
justification in 3:24 an 5:15,16,17 and
eternal life in 6:23

Then he stated that God's gifts and call are irrevocable in 11:29.

Regarding God's call, Paul was clear that God's call is for both Jew and Gentile, per Rom 1:5 and 9:25.

Therefore, we can conclude that both God's call and God's gifts are for both Jews and Gentiles. Both of which are irrevocable."

How many times are you going to take Romans 11:29 out of context?

Never.

The context for "God's gifts" in 11:29 includes ALL of the gifts that Paul previously listed before 11:29.

Further, the call of God was established by Paul to include Gentiles, , per Rom 1:5 and 9:25, so there is no reason to try to force 11:29 to ONLY apply to Jews in ch 11.

Both God's call and God's gifts are for both Jews and Gentiles.

And both are irrevocable.

 

[EmSw]

I said this:
"Paul taught that salvation is irreversible in Romans.

He noted 3 different gifts of God:
spiritual gifts in 1:11
justification in 3:24 an 5:15,16,17 and
eternal life in 6:23

Then he stated that God's gifts and call are irrevocable in 11:29.

Regarding God's call, Paul was clear that God's call is for both Jew and Gentile, per Rom 1:5 and 9:25.

Therefore, we can conclude that both God's call and God's gifts are for both Jews and Gentiles. Both of which are irrevocable."

Never.

The context for "God's gifts" in 11:29 includes ALL of the gifts that Paul previously listed before 11:29.

Further, the call of God was established by Paul to include Gentiles, , per Rom 1:5 and 9:25, so there is no reason to try to force 11:29 to ONLY apply to Jews in ch 11.

Both God's call and God's gifts are for both Jews and Gentiles.

And both are irrevocable.

Mr. Outside Darkness, you can wiggle and waggle all you want; you took that verse out of context.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Mr. Outside Darkness, you can wiggle and waggle all you want; you took that verse out of context.

Simply repeating oneself proves absolutely nothing.

Please actually show how I did.

But just remember this: there is NO mention of any gifts to Jews in ch 9-11, so ALL context about gifts and God's call MUST refer back in the epistle where they occurred.

Which I've already shown.

So the context for God's gifts are the gifts that Paul actually mentioned;
spiritual gifts in 1:11
justification in 3:24 and 5:1516,17, and
eternal life in 11:29

No one has shown any mention of "gifts to Jews" in ch 9-11.

 

[EmSw]

Simply repeating oneself proves absolutely nothing.

Please actually show how I did.

But just remember this: there is NO mention of any gifts to Jews in ch 9-11, so ALL context about gifts and God's call MUST refer back in the epistle where they occurred.

Which I've already shown.

So the context for God's gifts are the gifts that Paul actually mentioned;
spiritual gifts in 1:11
justification in 3:24 and 5:1516,17, and
eternal life in 11:29

No one has shown any mention of "gifts to Jews" in ch 9-11.

You still took the passage out of context.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You still took the passage out of context.

So you're not able to show how I did. OK.

So, how do you know that I took anything out of context?

 

[Geralt]

permanency and surety is founded on the person who secured and guaranteed it, God himself who never changes and keeps His word. what you need is faith in God that he will accomplish what he has promised.

Sorry for creating a duplicated thread (I need a quick answer)
And are we to trust Paul's gospel?
Is salvation permanent?

 

[Basil the Great]

Paul may or may not have taught that salvation is permanent, but I find no such teaching in the Gospels.

 

[Geralt]

salvation is not based on obedience but on righteousness.

Not if you read all the New testament it isnt. We are commanded to do certain things all throughout and it says that those who love me will obey me. What about those that dont, I think there is a place where it talks about outer darkness for thiose that Jesus says He never knew. Today there are to many that profess to be Christian yet have no personal relationship with Jesus. Most clainm that God doesnt speak, that they dont hear. If you cant hear then how can you be led?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Paul may or may not have taught that salvation is permanent, but I find no such teaching in the Gospels.

First, Paul quite clearly did teach that salvation is permanent. He noted that eternal life is a gift of God in Rom 6:23 and justification is a gift in 3:24 and 5:15,16,17.

Then, in Rom 11:29, Paul noted that God's gifts are irrevocable. That is permanent. It is God who gives His gifts. And He won't revoke them.

To the argument that man can "give them back", when someone finds any verse that clearly teaches that, there is no reason to believe it.

Second, Jesus himself taught that salvation is permanent.

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

And since eternal life is irrevocable, this verse teaches that salvation is permanent.

But Jesus also made this promise in John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Who has been given eternal life? Both John 3:16 and 5:24 say believers.

5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Notice, please, the 3 tenses in this verse:
1. past tense: "has crossed over from death to life".
2. present tense: "HAS eternal life"
3. future tense: "will not be judged"

Again, eternal life is a gift of God (Rom 6:23), and God's gifts are irrevocable (Rom 11:29).

So, John 3:16, 5:24 and 10:28 all teach eternal security. And agree completely with what Paul taught in Romans.

 

[Basil the Great]

I am sure that there are countless examples of Christians in the past 2,000 years who lost their faith for any number of reasons. To say that all of them were never really saved to begin with is simply too much for me to believe.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I am sure that there are countless examples of Christians in the past 2,000 years who lost their faith for any number of reasons. To say that all of them were never really saved to begin with is simply too much for me to believe.

I never said that. Did you not read my post??

 

[Basil the Great]

So you are saying that those who lose their faith are still saved? I suppose such is possible, but I do not think that we can count on such. Regarding the thrust of your premise, I do not doubt that one can interpret eternal security from Scripture, if one wishes to do so. However, it would appear that such a tenet was not very widely held in the Early Church and that should make us all wonder about it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So you are saying that those who lose their faith are still saved?

The Bible describes eternal life as a gift of God in Rom 6:23.

The Bible describes the gifts of God as irrevocable.

I suppose such is possible, but I do not think that we can count on such.

Of course we can count on the Bible. It's called faith.

Regarding the thrust of your premise, I do not doubt that one can interpret eternal security from Scripture, if one wishes to do so.

is it possible that the Holy Spirit so led the writers of Scripture to allow us to be misled?

However, it would appear that such a tenet was not very widely held in the Early Church and that should make us all wonder about it.

If there are plainly worded verses that are very clear on losing salvation, then please share. As it is, eternal life is a gift of God, and God's gifts are irrevocable.

That is quite clear enough for me. Esp since there are no verses that out and out say that salvation can be lost. Or a saved person ending up in the lake of fire.

 

[SkyWriting]

Is salvation permanent?

Salvation is a fixed event.
Do you accept the Gift?
or do you think God
could have done more.

 

[EmSw]

The Bible describes eternal life as a gift of God in Rom 6:23.

The Bible describes the gifts of God as irrevocable.


Of course we can count on the Bible. It's called faith.


is it possible that the Holy Spirit so led the writers of Scripture to allow us to be misled?


If there are plainly worded verses that are very clear on losing salvation, then please share. As it is, eternal life is a gift of God, and God's gifts are irrevocable.

That is quite clear enough for me. Esp since there are no verses that out and out say that salvation can be lost. Or a saved person ending up in the lake of fire.

Mr. Out-Of-Context, aka Mr. Outside Darkness, quit taking Romans 11 out of context. The gifts mentioned in Romans 11, are the gifts of mercy to the children of Israel. Get it straight.

You don't believe seeing, hearing, and speech are gifts from God, because your interpretation of 'irrevocable' gifts won't allow it. Our natural life in our bodies are gifts from God.

What is life if it isn't a gift from God? A loan you must pay back? Is life something you earned? What did you pay for your life? From whom did you buy it?

 

[SkyWriting]

I am sure that there are countless examples of Christians in the past 2,000 years who lost their faith for any number of reasons. To say that all of them were never really saved to begin with is simply too much for me to believe.

People have all already been saved.
Some do not accept the lengths
Jesus went to to take it all.