If Hell never existed. . . . .

[tanzanos]

....

 

[tanzanos]

Doing good deeds does not bring you in heaven.
Accepting God as your true saviour and Father will bring you to God/Heaven.

Ah! A religion that preaches against doing good! Instead it preaches FEAR and obedience in order for one to enter heaven.

No wonder there is so much hate on this planet.

I have read posts in CF that insist people like mother Teresa have gone to hell because they were not born again and Catholics do not go to heaven. I have seen such immoral postings in CF, by professed Christians; that it makes my blood run cold.
Surely this is not a religion of love! Even Islam praises the do gooders and promises them heaven for their charity.
Have we not had enough immoral beliefs on this planet? Must we live in constant fear?

Personally; I stopped believing in the bogey-man when I was still a toddler!

 

[Ave Maria]

No, it would not change my behavior. I would still be as honest, upright, and ethical as I could be. But then again, I don't believe in a place called Hell. I also don't believe in angels, demons, or "Satan". If I did believe in a place called Hell, it would merely be a place for demons and "Satan" to dwell and suffer but I don't believe in demons or "Satan". I believe that those are merely symbols of evil.

 

[Veyrlian]

There cannot be a Kingdom of God without submitting to God's reign. Evil, suffering, death all that is wrong with creation currently needs to be deatl with for the New Creation to be full reality. So either:
a. everyone will choose to submit. that's fine by me, but doesn't look likely
b. there is an alternative to submitting
c. God will force those who choose not to submit
d. the current messed up state of the world will continue indefinitely without ever being put right

I can't see how c is an improvement on b. d is definitely not.

I don't follow Jesus because I'm afraid of some medieval concept of hell. I follow Jesus because I can see there is a lot wrong with the world, I know he is acting to put that right, and I hear his invitation to get involved in that putting-to-rights.

The alternative to judgement is the s..t we are already in.

Oh, I'll take d. any day. Even if I believed in it, why would I want to submit to someone who did a crappy job in the first place? It's us people who are trying to make this world into a better place, seems to me your god only stays away and occasionally floods it, or comes here to die and says a lot of cryptic things which half of you get wrong anyway. Don't really care for his judgements.

Besides the "current messed up state of the world" is in my view a lot less messed up than say a 100 years ago, or 500, or urgh: 2000 years ago, at least where I live (*sigh*). The third worlds and the environment is a mess, that's true, but humanity-wise people have made much progress: no more slavery, women have rights, other races have rights, homosexuals almost do, even animals have a smidgeon of rights these days. Completely unlike a couple of hundred years ago. Utterly unlike 2000 years ago, where your book didn't even address any of these issues. I say let the messing up continue, we might eventually get things right, but certainly not if some judgemental holier-than-thou comes to demand submittance. Blergh.

How is submitting to something an improvement anyway? You might just as well do good things out of fear of eternal torment or something. That's like morality for dogs.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Ah! A religion that preaches against doing good! Instead it preaches FEAR and obedience in order for one to enter heaven.

The first Christians heard you coming. From Jimmy an ancient Palestian Christian:

My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.


Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.

Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like.

But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it—he will be blessed in what he does.
If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

No wonder there is so much hate on this planet.

Blame that on politics, greed, selfishness, culturalism and the religion that is still killing people in its name. And, by the way, there are no nations called by Christian anymore. We stick to the Caesar-God deal now.

And on hate? There's none in my Bible-affirming Evangelical environment. We all quite get along.

I have read posts in CF that insist people like mother Teresa have gone to hell because they were not born again and Catholics do not go to heaven.

Yup, Christian theology takes a bit of intelligence. "Born again" is the concept of "born from above." Looking to God takes looking up. Kind of metaphorical, but Jesus was a bright intellectual that seemed to not care if rather base people didn't understand him. He was looking for free thinkers.

I have seen such immoral postings in CF, by professed Christians; that it makes my blood run cold.

Really" Try The Daily Kos, Huffington Post and watch HBO for week. You want to talk "immoral."

Surely this is not a religion of love! Even Islam praises the do gooders and promises them heaven for their charity.

Their do gooders blow women, children and men in millions of pieces. Even non-Islamic ones.

Have we not had enough immoral beliefs on this planet? Must we live in constant fear?

And the answer is condoms? Ever checked STD rates since condom morality took over society?

Personally; I stopped believing in the bogey-man when I was still a toddler!

And now you believe an orangutan is your cousin? Ever seen how violent they are?

 

[tanzanos]

I have read posts in CF that insist people like mother Teresa have gone to hell because they were not born again and Catholics do not go to heaven

Yup, Christian theology takes a bit of intelligence. "Born again" is the concept of "born from above." Looking to God takes looking up. Kind of metaphorical, but Jesus was a bright intellectual that seemed to not care if rather base people didn't understand him. He was looking for free thinkers.

Ah another one who knows exactly how God thinks while others have no clue.

People like you; who say Mother Theresa is burning in hell because she was catholic and not born again; are people who have been brainwashed. If you take it as an insult then please press the report button and have me banned. I shall not sit by and have the names of good people who spent all their lives helping the destitute; be insulted upon while people like you go to church on Sunday all snug and happy that you will go to heaven while having done not a drop of what people like mother Theresa did.

 

[LittleNipper]

If Hell never existed---everyone ends up in Heaven---would it change your behavior in any way? Does the threat of Hell keep you from being a baddie?


Be honest now.

Not in the least. I rather try to make this planet as much of a paradise as possible now. I'd so much rather live in a Bedford Falls than Pottersville. Shame more people don't see it that way.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Ah another one who knows exactly how God thinks while others have no clue.

I'm not apologizing for being able to understand what I read.

People like you; who say Mother Theresa is burning in hell because she was catholic and not born again; are people who have been brainwashed.

Oh really? I don't bobblehead to social issues. And if Mother Theresa isn't in heaven, I don't want to go. What's wrong with Catholics? Born again means born from above. It's not my fault you don't understand Biblical theology.

If you take it as an insult then please press the report button and have me banned. I shall not sit by and have the names of good people who spent all their lives helping the destitute; be insulted upon while people like you go to church on Sunday all snug and happy that you will go to heaven while having done not a drop of what people like mother Theresa did.

Your ignorance is nothing to report. Your lack of study and and lack of knowledge about theology is nothing to be worried about for me. You having a dim view of me is also not of any concern to me.

I bet Mother Theresa is acting like one of the Angels in heaven too. Hopefully she's in better company. India didn't help her out all that much.

 

[visionary]

God loves us unconditionally, so we should love Him unconditionally.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

God loves us unconditionally, so we should love Him unconditionally.

What does that actually entail?

 

[seashale76]

If Hell never existed---everyone ends up in Heaven---would it change your behavior in any way? Does the threat of Hell keep you from being a baddie?


Be honest now.

You must only be familiar with a very narrow view of what hell and heaven are. I'm not surprised though- you're only taking your cue from what passes as mainstream.

This usually doesn't fit in the discussion agenda, but here you go anyway:

God is Love and His presence is like fire. How one endures this fire has everything to do with how they were tempered in this life, just like the three righteous youths in the fiery furnace were able to joyfully walk around unharmed in the fire, so did others who didn't love God perish just being near the fire. The fire didn't change.

Here is a quote from an old Wikipedia article on the topic (that doesn’t seem to be around anymore) that I thought explained it pretty well: "For many ancient Christians, Hell was the same "place" as Heaven: living in the presence of God and directly experiencing God's love. Whether this was experienced as pleasure or torment depended on one's disposition towards God. St. Isaac of Syria wrote in Mystic Treatises: "... those who find themselves in Hell will be chastised by the scourge of love. How cruel and bitter this torment of love will be! For those who understand that they have sinned against love, undergo greater suffering than those produced by the most fearful tortures. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart, which has sinned against love, is more piercing than any other pain. It is not right to say that the sinners in Hell are deprived of the love of God ... But love acts in two ways, as suffering of the reproved, and as joy in the blessed!" This ancient view is still the doctrine of the Eastern Orthodox Church."

 

[KCKID]

I bet Mother Theresa is acting like one of the Angels in heaven too. Hopefully she's in better company.

Since you like to keep flaunting the scriptures ...Mother Theresa isn't in heaven. She's in the grave.

 

[visionary]

Being with God is the only reason to live.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Since you like to keep flaunting the scriptures ...Mother Theresa isn't in heaven. She's in the grave.

Feisty KID.

Jesus says that "at the resurrection" that we will "be" like angels, nether marrying nor given in marriage. M. Theresa is already dead. But we will see what she is (be). Or rather, what she has been made like.

It's in Matthew the 22nd chapter and Mark 12. You should look 'em up.

And to be away from the body (which is in the grave) is to be present with the Lord. I'm thinking Paul's not going to lie about something like that. That's in 2 Corinthians 5.

I didn't want to flaunt those scriptures. Please look though, look them up. You know how I don't like to irritate people.

 

[Morcova]

Being with God is the only reason to live.

I'm sad for you.

 

[max1120]

If hell did not exist? Well my guess is pretty my oh say 99% of christians would do pretty much what they pleased. The whole idea of "hell" as a fire and brimstone burning 24 hours chamber of horrors was concieved as way of intimidating others into acting a certain way. If you believe god is going to toss you into an eteranal oven filled with 1001 diabolical forms forms of torture than maybe you will behave in the proscribed manner. Think of it as the ultimate form of social control. Obviously I am doubtful of that sort of hell. If that is hell and it is what is spoken of in scriptures, than that makes god noting more than a petty tyrant, the worst sort of despot. I would not want to worship a despot. If that is the case than you do not love god you simply fear him and follow only out concern for your own hide. In other words you would desert him in a second if it were not for his threats of violence against you..ie hell? To love someone is to give to them freely. That type of reasoning has always puzzled me and I would love it if anyone could explain why they would (other than fear) follow such a god? Only a sick person would want to do something like that to people simply because they did not accept his teachings. I mean for example do you really believe a sane person would burn a person forever in utter tourment simply because they were gay? or had an affair on their husband?, or maybe lusted after a woman he found attractive that he was not married to? Those accept such teachings seem to believe that god has a "right" to torture people forever simply for breaking his rules...but from where does that right arise? According to what I have been told it arrises out of god saying so??? So simply put he says its his right to do such horrible things to people, therefore he has the right? That sort of circular reasoning sounds rediculous and intelectually lame. How sad that someone would actually believe that anyone or anything had that right simply because they said they had the right?

Max

 

[Polycarp_fan]

If hell did not exist? Well my guess is pretty my oh say 99% of christians would do pretty much what they pleased. The whole idea of "hell" as a fire and brimstone burning 24 hours chamber of horrors was concieved as way of intimidating others into acting a certain way. If you believe god is going to toss you into an eteranal oven filled with 1001 diabolical forms forms of torture than maybe you will behave in the proscribed manner. Think of it as the ultimate form of social control. Obviously I am doubtful of that sort of hell. If that is hell and it is what is spoken of in scriptures, than that makes god noting more than a petty tyrant, the worst sort of despot. I would not want to worship a despot. If that is the case than you do not love god you simply fear him and follow only out concern for your own hide. In other words you would desert him in a second if it were not for his threats of violence against you..ie hell? To love someone is to give to them freely. That type of reasoning has always puzzled me and I would love it if anyone could explain why they would (other than fear) follow such a god? Only a sick person would want to do something like that to people simply because they did not accept his teachings. I mean for example do you really believe a sane person would burn a person forever in utter tourment simply because they were gay? or had an affair on their husband?, or maybe lusted after a woman he found attractive that he was not married to? Those accept such teachings seem to believe that god has a "right" to torture people forever simply for breaking his rules...but from where does that right arise? According to what I have been told it arrises out of god saying so??? So simply put he says its his right to do such horrible things to people, therefore he has the right? That sort of circular reasoning sounds rediculous and intelectually lame. How sad that someone would actually believe that anyone or anything had that right simply because they said they had the right?

Max

Are you calling Jesus a liar? His teaching on hell is quite horrific.

 

[KCKID]

Are you calling Jesus a liar? His teaching on hell is quite horrific.

Are you calling Jesus a liar? His teaching on hell is quite horrific.

Jesus used metaphors or illustrative language. It's got nothing to do with ANYONE lying. One needs to understand this. You seem to read the Bible as though it's a 'how to do' manual. The Seventh-day Adventists have really done their homework on the issue of death and hell. And it's all based on 100% scripture. I would suggest you subscribe to one of their seminars. I'm not promoting the denomination itself, just the SDA's extremely interesting take on this issue. And, again, it's 100% scriptural.

Just let me give you a couple of rather simplistic biblical facts. Firstly, the unrighteous don't go anywhere at death. They perish. Biblical! Secondly, eternal life is offered ONLY to the righteous. Biblical! Once one accepts these two scriptural tenets then one can figure out the rest all by themselves. Hell is the grave. Anything beyond that is pure fantasy.

 

[brinny]

If Hell never existed---everyone ends up in Heaven---would it change your behavior in any way? Does the threat of Hell keep you from being a baddie?


Be honest now.

No. Wanting a relationship with my Abba motivates me to repent of being a "baddie" because i love Abba and i miss Him when i distance myself. This song expresses it for me:

YouTube - You Won't Relent - Jesus Culture - Kim Walker and Chris Quilalaa

It's not about hell anymore. It's about a hunger and thirst for my Abba and wanting with everything in me to see Him rejoicing over me with singing.

 

[max1120]

Polycarp Fan...Christ used hyperbole and metaphores often in scripture. Secondly IF it were true that god used some form of horrible torture to burn and torment people for endless eternity with out end simply becaue they did not believe he existed or did not follow his every whim that would make him a despot, meglamanial, cruel, and unworthy of worship. Why would you love such a god? Only out of fear of being sent to hell and tortured. God would be no different than Kim Jung Ill or Sadam Hussain. He would be worshiped because others were to afraid to not worship him. Trust me love does not come from fear, it comes from respect and mutual trust...not intemidation. The god you seem to believe in is concerned only with himself and his views. He could careless about anyone unless they completly accept and do exactly as he says...similar to the actions of a despot. He rules not by the consent of those he governs but rather by the threat of torture in hell roasting on a flame for all eternity. I would think that any thinking person would never want to worship such a god. I would even go so far as to reason that it would be any sane mans duty to resist such a god and at least deny him the satisfaction of our bowing down to grant his every whim. Fortunately I do not think god acts that way. My god does not believe in holding somethng over your head. If there is a god, let us all pray he is not your verson of god.

KCKID...interesting and it is a step up from Polycarp Fan's god who tortures people without end simply for believing differently or simply not believing in god. Yet still the denial of life after death seems quite harsh. I believe that god seperates and those who have followed him spend eternity with him and those who do not spend eternity elsewhere apart from him...but not in pain or suffering, they are simply cut off from god and his people.