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If Hell never existed. . . . .
- Thread starter Washington
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It is called the "HOSTAGE SYNDROME"
Ahh i see you have humor just spillin' out
yet, i am serious. It is what it is.
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And when people with those kind of authoratarian fearmongering tactics rise to power, life becomes horriffic....life becomes hell....
Jesus spoke of hell, and that is what He meant.
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To get back on track...If Hell never existed---everyone ends up in Heaven---would it change your behavior in any way? Does the threat of Hell keep you from being a baddie?
Be honest now.
Would it change my behavior? I don't think so. When I was a child, learning the do's and don'ts, good from bad, Hell was never the reason behind my choices. In fact, I would venture to say, that when I was a child, the very idea of Hell was upsetting, and scary. It was never used by my parents, or my grandparents to scare me into doing what I was supposed to, (or not doing what I wasn't).
So, my answer to your philosophical question is, no, the threat of Hell did not, and does not still, dictate my behavior.
I could go on and try to philosophize why that is. Maybe it's because (I believe) each person when they are born, comes into this world with some inherent sense of what is right and what is wrong. Ethics if you will. Or maybe it's societies influence. I don't know. But, given that I know my own personality, if someone tried to use Hell as a threat to control me? It would undoubtedly have the reverse effect. Because it's not God who uses this as a threat, it's people. And admittedly, I've always had a problem with people who try to usurp authority that doesn't belong to them to control others.
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Polycarp_fan
Well-Known Member
Atheists in comunists regimes? Or leftists that rise to power via democracy only to dismantle democracy to stay in total power?
Of course gehenna is a jewish concept so let's see that take:
JewishEncyclopedia.com - GEHENNA
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This post is probably one of the most judgmental, prideful posts I have ever read at CF, and that's saying something.
Tear yourself away from the mirror for a moment to look at the way you treat people.
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Wiccan_Child
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max1120
seeker
The point is that the whole concept of the god in heaven who cannot wait to toss people into hell for the most trivial of things is really sad. The only thing which is even more sad is that the people who believe such things say they "love god". Do you love people who threaten to torture you for all eternity by burning you alive with fire and brimstone? To say you "love" that person would make you a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] and god a sadist. I am sorry but I do not worship a sadist god. I believe that any god worthy of worship and love would be one of love and peace not "I am going to burn you a live if you keep lusting after your neighbors wife". A god who acted like that would be the enemy of mankind..not its savior. So the concept of hell as preached by some seems outlandish or if true a very good reason to oppose that god.
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Morcova
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Well atleast your kind enough to come down from all the way up on the mountain and share your wisdom with us.
Wow.
Some people don't need fans... they are their own fan club.
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lisah
Humanist with Christian Heritage
If Hell never existed---everyone ends up in Heaven---would it change your behavior in any way? Does the threat of Hell keep you from being a baddie?
Be honest now.
You know what. It never stopped me from doing anything. The only thing that stopped me from doing something that I wanted to do was... Well, sometimes my parents if they had the chance to intervene. My friends, if they had the chance to intervene.
But now, as an adult, I can stop myself. Mostly because the outcome now is more predictable, experience gives you something to base decisions upon. Also, I still have family and friends to call upon when in need of support. It is nice when you can draw upon the experience of others.
Plus, I never felt that fear of hell was a basis for a belief in God. Although I was raised in the "Fire and Brimstone" environment, I just could not find the justification on that basis. It just seemed cheap to me.
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How DOES one 'love' and 'worship' God ...a being without any physical presence? 'Loving' and 'worshiping' God is really no more than a cliche that is bandied around by Christians in parrot fashion. But, if someone CAN actually describe HOW they 'love' God I'd love to hear from them. I'll bet, however, that no one can do so without it being cliche.
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Wiccan_Child
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" Yet my standards of right and wrong surpass most people that I know."
Yep, that's not arrogant at all.
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Morcova
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Not really, could you explain why I shouldn't defend him and what me being an atheist has to do with it?
I'm taking your words at face value, if you don't like people calling your arrogant you might wish to do something about it.
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Morcova
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You've got it all wrong.
We should be studying this person to find out what makes this persons morality so much more superior to everyone elses.
Honestly it's like something an evangelical would say.
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annrobert
Jesus is my Shelter my Refuge my Fortress
Jesus said if you love Me keep My commands,not if you fear hell keep My commandments.However the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.
Jesus also said why call ye Me Lord Lord and do not the things that I say.
He also said some people draw near to Me with their lips but their heart is far from Me.
Christians who truly have a grasp of Jesus love for them change.
When they have a grasp of Jesus mercy they show mercy.
When they have a grasp that Jesus will look after them they are not greedy.
When these people understand how totally and completely they are forgiven they begin to truly forgive from their hearts and not hold bitterness and grudges.
When these people truly get to know Jesus , His heart,His compassion, His holiness and righteousness, His mercy and meekness and the way He cares for the broken hearted and outcast ,the way He came to serve and not be served, how He cares for the least of these,His power to change lives and forgive they change.
They are no longer satisfied to just attend church with other christians and only invite those people to their suppers who are friends and relatives, they invite the hurting in.
They are no longer satisfied with drawing near with their lips.
Their hearts change.
Rivers of living water flow out of them.
Joy is their strength and they have peace that the world cannot take away.
Love and compassion and mercy are a part of their daily lives.
Not just love for friends and relatives or people who can give something back ,be it emotional or material,no they reach out to those who have nothing to offer back, their neighbour as described by Jesus(the wounded whoever he may be)
People who really know Jesus will follow Him no matter what
Will follow Him just because they know Him.
Their are many many christians just like this.
These people reach out to the least of these and invite the halt and maimed and lame and blind to their suppers not just their friends and relatives and people who can offer something back be it emotionally or spiritually or materially.
These people reach out to those who have nothing to give back.
These people serve as Jesus served and do not fight back if sued and they visit the sick and imprisoned and take the stranger in and preach the gospel and they take care of the wounded and minister to the outcasts and the least of these.
These people love their enemies and do good to those who hurt them and pray for those who despitefully use them,they do not hold grudges and bitterness,they forgive from their hearts over and over again.They do not get even if struck on the cheek and they give not expecting it back again.These people care for the weak and the brokenhearted,the bruised and the wounded.
These people are full of love and peace and joy is their strength.
These people do not try to get away with what they consider little things,like pride and arrogance and (small lies).These people are not greedy and share what they have.These people esteem others greater than themselves and bear one anothers burdens and are tender and compassionate and merciful and meek.
These people pray for one another as well as their enemies.These people are not too busy to show love and take time for the least of these the outcasts and hurting.
These people trust God to meet their needs and do not store up treasures on earth.They pray unceasingly.They know and trust Jesus completely.They are here to serve and not be served.They do not take the best seats or treat the well off better than the poor.
They are not concerned with their rights so much as the rights of others.They do not try to force their way, are not arrogant or easily provoked.
If when beginning to pray they remember that somebody has something against them they are not to proud to go and reconcile.They do not make excuses not to.If they themselves have something against somebody they go and try to make up with them,bringing witnesses if necessary.They restore an erring brother in the spirit of meekness not condemnation.
These christians are salt and light on the earth.Their righteousness exceeds those of the unbelievers.These christians do not try to get away with as much worldliness as they can with excuses and self justification.
These christians have purified their hearts before God because they love Him and not just because they want to avoid hell or get a healing or a good feeling or belong to a social club.These christians truly care about the least of these.They forgive from their hearts.They are not self righteous.
You could never stop these christians from loving God even if there was no hell,they love Jesus for who is His and what He stands for, grace and mercy and forgiveness ,meekness and lowliness,sons of consolation.Genuine love and not self centeredness.
They have a deep relationship with Jesus and hear His voice and not the voice of another.Jesus is their Lord and Saviour and protector,their Rock and their Strength.They know Jesus intimately and love spending time with Jesus as a priviledge and not a duty.
Jesus has changed them from the inside out.They serve Jesus out of love and not fear.Even if they began in fear.As they get to know Jesus and allow Jesus to change them they love Him and trust Him.
After they have come to Jesus and Jesus is their Saviour,they are changed and sealed by The Holy Spirit.They are washed in the blood of Jesus and cleansed from all their sin.They are safe.Jesus is their Lord.Not because of their good works but by faith in Jesus and being washed in His blood.Jesus then changes their hearts and makes all things new.
Then they begin to renew their mind by reading the bible.They get to know Jesus by spending time in prayer.The Holy Spirit leads them and protects them and comforts them and convicts them and teaches them about Jesus and brings Jesus Words to their remembrance.
They begin to grow in love and christian maturity.
This is a process,it does not happen over night.
Some bear more fruit than others and some mature faster than others,
But all bear fruit and grow.
Their is a change on the inside of christians.
Their is a love for Jesus and for their neighbour.
They worship Jesus in spirit and in truth.
Jesus gives them a new heart,He takes away the heart of stone and gives them a soft heart of flesh.
A christian will always love and follow Jesus , hell or no hell,they will always love and follow Jesus because they know Jesus, and nothing will ever stop them from following and loving Jesus.
I will always follow Jesus no matter what.
My goal is to grow more and more in maturity.
I went through a spiritual crisis for a long time.
Jesus kept me safe.
I want to get to know Jesus more and more and be closer and closer to Him.
I want to please Him and serve Him and love Him with all my heart.
I want to mature more and more and show love more and more and depend on Jesus and trust Jesus more and more.
Nothing will ever stop me from loving and serving Jesus,hell or no hell.
However I did backslide in my walk, and I did fear hell over that,
But I learned so much from all that,but I would never want to go through it again.
I am still recovering from all that.
Jesus also said why call ye Me Lord Lord and do not the things that I say.
He also said some people draw near to Me with their lips but their heart is far from Me.
Christians who truly have a grasp of Jesus love for them change.
When they have a grasp of Jesus mercy they show mercy.
When they have a grasp that Jesus will look after them they are not greedy.
When these people understand how totally and completely they are forgiven they begin to truly forgive from their hearts and not hold bitterness and grudges.
When these people truly get to know Jesus , His heart,His compassion, His holiness and righteousness, His mercy and meekness and the way He cares for the broken hearted and outcast ,the way He came to serve and not be served, how He cares for the least of these,His power to change lives and forgive they change.
They are no longer satisfied to just attend church with other christians and only invite those people to their suppers who are friends and relatives, they invite the hurting in.
They are no longer satisfied with drawing near with their lips.
Their hearts change.
Rivers of living water flow out of them.
Joy is their strength and they have peace that the world cannot take away.
Love and compassion and mercy are a part of their daily lives.
Not just love for friends and relatives or people who can give something back ,be it emotional or material,no they reach out to those who have nothing to offer back, their neighbour as described by Jesus(the wounded whoever he may be)
People who really know Jesus will follow Him no matter what
Will follow Him just because they know Him.
Their are many many christians just like this.
These people reach out to the least of these and invite the halt and maimed and lame and blind to their suppers not just their friends and relatives and people who can offer something back be it emotionally or spiritually or materially.
These people reach out to those who have nothing to give back.
These people serve as Jesus served and do not fight back if sued and they visit the sick and imprisoned and take the stranger in and preach the gospel and they take care of the wounded and minister to the outcasts and the least of these.
These people love their enemies and do good to those who hurt them and pray for those who despitefully use them,they do not hold grudges and bitterness,they forgive from their hearts over and over again.They do not get even if struck on the cheek and they give not expecting it back again.These people care for the weak and the brokenhearted,the bruised and the wounded.
These people are full of love and peace and joy is their strength.
These people do not try to get away with what they consider little things,like pride and arrogance and (small lies).These people are not greedy and share what they have.These people esteem others greater than themselves and bear one anothers burdens and are tender and compassionate and merciful and meek.
These people pray for one another as well as their enemies.These people are not too busy to show love and take time for the least of these the outcasts and hurting.
These people trust God to meet their needs and do not store up treasures on earth.They pray unceasingly.They know and trust Jesus completely.They are here to serve and not be served.They do not take the best seats or treat the well off better than the poor.
They are not concerned with their rights so much as the rights of others.They do not try to force their way, are not arrogant or easily provoked.
If when beginning to pray they remember that somebody has something against them they are not to proud to go and reconcile.They do not make excuses not to.If they themselves have something against somebody they go and try to make up with them,bringing witnesses if necessary.They restore an erring brother in the spirit of meekness not condemnation.
These christians are salt and light on the earth.Their righteousness exceeds those of the unbelievers.These christians do not try to get away with as much worldliness as they can with excuses and self justification.
These christians have purified their hearts before God because they love Him and not just because they want to avoid hell or get a healing or a good feeling or belong to a social club.These christians truly care about the least of these.They forgive from their hearts.They are not self righteous.
You could never stop these christians from loving God even if there was no hell,they love Jesus for who is His and what He stands for, grace and mercy and forgiveness ,meekness and lowliness,sons of consolation.Genuine love and not self centeredness.
They have a deep relationship with Jesus and hear His voice and not the voice of another.Jesus is their Lord and Saviour and protector,their Rock and their Strength.They know Jesus intimately and love spending time with Jesus as a priviledge and not a duty.
Jesus has changed them from the inside out.They serve Jesus out of love and not fear.Even if they began in fear.As they get to know Jesus and allow Jesus to change them they love Him and trust Him.
After they have come to Jesus and Jesus is their Saviour,they are changed and sealed by The Holy Spirit.They are washed in the blood of Jesus and cleansed from all their sin.They are safe.Jesus is their Lord.Not because of their good works but by faith in Jesus and being washed in His blood.Jesus then changes their hearts and makes all things new.
Then they begin to renew their mind by reading the bible.They get to know Jesus by spending time in prayer.The Holy Spirit leads them and protects them and comforts them and convicts them and teaches them about Jesus and brings Jesus Words to their remembrance.
They begin to grow in love and christian maturity.
This is a process,it does not happen over night.
Some bear more fruit than others and some mature faster than others,
But all bear fruit and grow.
Their is a change on the inside of christians.
Their is a love for Jesus and for their neighbour.
They worship Jesus in spirit and in truth.
Jesus gives them a new heart,He takes away the heart of stone and gives them a soft heart of flesh.
A christian will always love and follow Jesus , hell or no hell,they will always love and follow Jesus because they know Jesus, and nothing will ever stop them from following and loving Jesus.
I will always follow Jesus no matter what.
My goal is to grow more and more in maturity.
I went through a spiritual crisis for a long time.
Jesus kept me safe.
I want to get to know Jesus more and more and be closer and closer to Him.
I want to please Him and serve Him and love Him with all my heart.
I want to mature more and more and show love more and more and depend on Jesus and trust Jesus more and more.
Nothing will ever stop me from loving and serving Jesus,hell or no hell.
However I did backslide in my walk, and I did fear hell over that,
But I learned so much from all that,but I would never want to go through it again.
I am still recovering from all that.
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annrobert
Jesus is my Shelter my Refuge my Fortress
People may follow some form of worldly ethics made up of their very limited worldly knowledge , and consider their own standards good in comparison to other people's standards.
But people will never have forgiveness and a new heart and salvation without Jesus.
They will also never have true Wisdom and Knowledge and Truth and Peace without Jesus.
They will never have everlasting life without Jesus.
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If there was no hell, people would have a much harder time controlling themselves. Religion would also have a hard time controlling people.
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T
tanzanos
Guest
For me there is no hell! Also I do not believe in God yet; I have no problem controlling myself. Most European countries pay only lip service to religion and as experience has shown us it is the religious fundamentalists who cannot control themselves. The Bogey man died when we grew up.
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annrobert
Jesus is my Shelter my Refuge my Fortress
7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.
6Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
8For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
13But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived
15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
The knowledge of man is foolishness to God.
8Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.
6Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
8For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
13But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived
15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
The knowledge of man is foolishness to God.
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