If Hell never existed. . . . .

[tanzanos]

7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

8Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.


6Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

7Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
8For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

13But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived

15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

The knowledge of man is foolishness to God.

If you can justify why God and Jesus commanded people to kill their disobedient children then there is nothing you can quote that will make me even remotely accept this God of yours!

 

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

Those who do not ascribe to or believe in Christianity or Hell, I would think, would answer the O.P.'s question, "it wouldn't change my actions." or something along those lines. (We all remember the O.P. question, do we not?)

If Hell never existed---everyone ends up in Heaven---would it change your behavior in any way? Does the threat of Hell keep you from being a baddie?


Be honest now.

Not do their best to open this thread up to theological discussions about the Bible.

Please stay on point people. This is not Eschatology or Theology, it's Ethics & Morality. It's about whether or not, you personally would change your behavior.

 

[Morcova]

However the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.

Funny I always thought the beginning of knowledge was curiosity not fear.

Actually fear is pretty counter productive to knowledge, I mean if you are afraid your not going to question things.

But that's the point now isn't it?

 

[Morcova]

If there was no hell, people would have a much harder time controlling themselves. Religion would also have a hard time controlling people.

What you mean to say is,

"If there was no hell people who are only good because they are afraid of punishment would have a much harder time controlling themselves. People who are good just for the sake of being good would get along just fine."

 

[Morcova]

The knowledge of man is foolishness to God.

Everything you quoted was written by man.

 

[The-Doctor]

There are several views to this I feel. A friend of mine is a staunch Athiest has not belief in God or the after life and no belief in Hell/Heaven etc. His view is quite simple. As long as he does no harm to others/ obeys the law and generally tries to do some good in the world and for those around him he cant be going far wrong and he has no fear of Hell.

Some argue that Hell was a device created to ensure that the faithful followed the rulings of the church through fear of what might happen. Without Hell there would be no need to lead a sinless or near sinless life or seek forgiveness since there would be no punishment or judgement for what you did in life. That would be another way of looking at it.

Some argue that Hell is not the fire and brimstone but personal to each person, the thing you fear most that you will suffer for all eternity a sort of room 101 forever.

I think Tolkein said it best with Gandalf ...something like its what you do with the time you have that counts cant recall the exact quote. I think my athiest friend has a good point personally

 

[tanzanos]

Funny I always thought the beginning of knowledge was curiosity not fear.

Actually fear is pretty counter productive to knowledge, I mean if you are afraid your not going to question things.

But that's the point now isn't it?

The last supernatural beings who gave mankind knowledge were both punished severely for doing so (Prometheus and Lucifer), Poor sods all they wanted was to spread the knowledge around but unfortunately they were caught by the Boss!

 

[Polycarp_fan]

There are several views to this I feel. A friend of mine is a staunch Athiest has not belief in God or the after life and no belief in Hell/Heaven etc. His view is quite simple. As long as he does no harm to others/ obeys the law and generally tries to do some good in the world and for those around him he cant be going far wrong and he has no fear of Hell.

isn't it fascinating that atheists fear being alone so intensely? They gather around themselves such a crowd of fellow believers. How many famous atheists ever needed to "speak out" IF athiesm is such a natural fact?

Hell is as real as the torment faced by the school student terrified about being rejected. Hell is as provable as pinching yourself and knowing that you are real.

Some argue that Hell was a device created to ensure that the faithful followed the rulings of the church through fear of what might happen.

maybe so, but hell as a instinct in the human psyche has been with us longer than power-mongering politicians and kings and queens.

Without Hell there would be no need to lead a sinless or near sinless life or seek forgiveness since there would be no punishment or judgement for what you did in life. That would be another way of looking at it.

Then I am taking anything and everything I want to. I'll get with some other powerful and ruthless guys and we'll rewrite government to be more like a pride of lions. Hell is not having all you desire and can take until someone stronger ends your life or drives you away from your stuff.

Some argue that Hell is not the fire and brimstone but personal to each person, the thing you fear most that you will suffer for all eternity a sort of room 101 forever.

Ask a rejected young person if what they are experiencing isn't pure fire? Ever worked a suicide hotline? I have talked down suicidal youth.

I think Tolkein said it best with Gandalf ...something like its what you do with the time you have that counts cant recall the exact quote. I think my athiest friend has a good point personally

Didn't Gandalf say say: "Run you fools," just before he fell with the demon grasoing him? That's what I though he said. He didn't seem eager to have his friends go through hell with him. But I'll go get the DVD and watch it again.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Everything you quoted was written by man.

If you are referring to Biblical writings, that fact more than shows the proof the God dictated what they were to write. Other than the Ten Commandment stone tablets, I don't think "the Bible" goes out of its way to portray God sitting down with inkwell and quill. No way are all of the heroes in a man made story going to be losers, adulterers, liars, cheats, murderers as the foundation for your rolemodels to change your life for the better.

Nahhhhh, I'm thinking in man made story, the founder of my religion isn't going to be a frightened, Chaldean with a hot looking but barren wife, a great and powerful general held back from getting what he conquered everyone for, and the leading ladies are harlots or angry misfits.

Nahh, I'm thinking that applying logic to the Biblical story shows a far different hand in its writings than the typical "we are the champions" story you find usually.

Oh yeah I forgot, and God's Son (actually God Himself in a unified personage) doesn't overcome adversity to "rise" as a conquering ruler over the subjugated masses forced to worship the all-powerful heavenly ruler, no, no, the Biblical story has its "God" being killed, then rising, and, well, going off to have to sit down and be quiet about His victory over death and let the populace decide for themselves where they want to go eternally and what they want to believe.

Yeah, that's a man made story, yeah sure.

I'll pop in a Rocky sequel or a Greek play, or John Wayne movie and compare. I guess I could watch a sports flick too.

Yeahh, um, nyahhh, I'm not buying the "man made" story deal about the Bible. Sorry, just to rid myself of logic just to get laid and not have to care about who I screw. Nah.

Hey, another Bible story. But an embarrassing one for the writer.

Whadda u know.

 

[Morcova]

If you are referring to Biblical writings, that fact more than shows the proof the God dictated what they were to write. Other than the Ten Commandment stone tablets, I don't think "the Bible" goes out of its way to portray God sitting down with inkwell and quill. No way are all of the heroes in a man made story going to be losers, adulterers, liars, cheats, murderers as the foundation for your rolemodels to change your life for the better.

Nahhhhh, I'm thinking in man made story, the founder of my religion isn't going to be a frightened, Chaldean with a hot looking but barren wife, a great and powerful general held back from getting what he conquered everyone for, and the leading ladies are harlots or angry misfits.

Nahh, I'm thinking that applying logic to the Biblical story shows a far different hand in its writings than the typical "we are the champions" story you find usually.

Oh yeah I forgot, and God's Son (actually God Himself in a unified personage) doesn't overcome adversity to "rise" as a conquering ruler over the subjugated masses forced to worship the all-powerful heavenly ruler, no, no, the Biblical story has its "God" being killed, then rising, and, well, going off to have to sit down and be quiet about His victory over death and let the populace decide for themselves where they want to go eternally and what they want to believe.

Yeah, that's a man made story, yeah sure.

I'll pop in a Rocky sequel or a Greek play, or John Wayne movie and compare. I guess I could watch a sports flick too.

Yeahh, um, nyahhh, I'm not buying the "man made" story deal about the Bible. Sorry, just to rid myself of logic just to get laid and not have to care about who I screw. Nah.

Hey, another Bible story. But an embarrassing one for the writer.

Whadda u know.

So what your saying is you never watch tv or read novels or watch movies?

There is no story in the bible that doesn't read like something made up by man.

 

[LittleNipper]

If you can justify why God and Jesus commanded people to kill their disobedient children then there is nothing you can quote that will make me even remotely accept this God of yours!

The LAW of Moses is an illustration of what perfect means for sinful man. People who later claimed to JESUS that they kept all of GOD's commandments were not fooling JESUS, and proved that their understanding of the LAW was flawed. NO ONE CAN KEEP GOD's LAW. That is why CHRIST was sent into this world.

 

[LittleNipper]

<staff edit>

Show me a Jew who kept the LAW of GOD perfectly, and I will show you JESUS.

 

[Veyrlian]

The LAW of Moses is an illustration of what perfect means for sinful man. People who later claimed to JESUS that they kept all of GOD's commandments were not fooling JESUS, and proved that their understanding of the LAW was flawed. NO ONE CAN KEEP GOD's LAW. That is why CHRIST was sent into this world.

So if no one can keep God's law, what's all the fuss with the Leviticus?
Am I misunderstanding something?

 

[b&wpac4]

posted too quick, not the right place for this.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

So if no one can keep God's law, what's all the fuss with the Leviticus?

You gotta try huh?

Am I misunderstanding something?

Doesn't look like it.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Show me a Jew who kept the LAW of GOD perfectly, and I will show you JESUS.

Jews are forbidden to work on the Sabbath.
Jesus worked on the Sabbath.

Disproof complete.

 

[b&wpac4]

Jews are forbidden to work on the Sabbath.
Jesus worked on the Sabbath.

Disproof complete.

One has to understand what "work" meant before one can accurately judge if he violated the commandment or not.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

One has to understand what "work" meant before one can accurately judge if he violated the commandment or not.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

To the legalists, not working on the sabbath meant they'd probably stand by and watch their neighbor drown because they couldn't "work".

 

[b&wpac4]

Took the words right out of my mouth.

To the legalists, not working on the sabbath meant they'd probably stand by and watch their neighbor drown because they couldn't "work".

Actually, they would have been in violation of the Sabbath for doing that as well. To save a life, nearly all requirements of observing the Sabbath are suspended. I believe the teaching is "Better to defile one Sabbath so that someone else can observe many more" or something to that effect.

 

[KCKID]

The LAW of Moses is an illustration of what perfect means for sinful man. People who later claimed to JESUS that they kept all of GOD's commandments were not fooling JESUS, and proved that their understanding of the LAW was flawed. NO ONE CAN KEEP GOD's LAW. That is why CHRIST was sent into this world.

So then when Jesus said to the adultrous woman, "Go and sin no more" it was intended as tongue-in-cheek more so than an actual command that Jesus knew she couldn't keep ...right?