If God is Sovereign where does man's free will fit in?

[SkyWriting]

Hello, my name is kat, I'm new here and this is my first post. I have been studying the Sovereignty of God and would like your thoughts on the subject. Does man actually have a free will, or is his free will directed by God as well?

Man lives in one point with past behind and unknown future ahead.
God lives outside of time in both the past and future.
The two viewpoints are impossible to reconcile.
God with limited knowledge would be man, and man with infinite
knowledge would be God.

 

[RDKirk]

This being a Christian Only forum area, I guess I don't understand the question.

If a person has committed himself to obedience to Christ, what difference does it make?

 

[Jennifer Rothnie]

Hello, my name is kat, I'm new here and this is my first post. I have been studying the Sovereignty of God and would like your thoughts on the subject. Does man actually have a free will, or is his free will directed by God as well?

Man has 'limited will' - within the boundaries God set upon nature and upon man (his physical, mental, and moral limitations. Man can, however, respond to the gospel in faith - since Christ's work on the cross was sufficient for even limited, fallen man to respond in faith.

So it is not a matter of one-or-the-other - since God in His sovereignty did give man the agency of choice.

God, as sovereign king, does not remove the will of his subjects. Rather, he sets up boundaries/limits in which people can act. If they disobey, they are punished. He does not even force the actions of his military or servants. (Angels, Christians, etc.) Angels who disobeyed have either been punished or will be. Christians who disobey are chastized. God also delegates authority and tasks, such as to His angels as ministers or to Christians to evangelize; his authority even over his highest ministers to guide, punish, and reward is a mark of his sovereign power.

As such, there is no contradiction between an all-sovereign God and Him creating people that are capable of free volition.

How does God's sovereignty and mankind's free will work together in salvation?
Is God sovereign or do we have a free will?

 

[Jennifer Rothnie]

I agree.
I was saved into the Armenian theological viewpoint and have found it to be an almost lifelong struggle. Only a few years ago God answered my prayer to show me Truth. I have since embraced reformed theology and have found incredible freedom. Accepting Gods sovereignty and man's utter depravity is foundational.

Neither Arminianism or Calvinism fully reflect what scripture says. Both have the unfortunate trappings of being man-made theories, and can easily obscure what scripture says through man-made terms and through filtering scripture through human philosophy.

Consider the Calvinist/reformed teaching on Total Depravity which you mentioned.

Total Depravity is also known as Total Inability. It teaches that all men sin (Rom 3:10-23), that sin corrupts every aspect of our being, such as flesh, heart, mind, etc, (Mark 7:21-23), and that man cannot save himself (Psalm 60:10-12, Is 63:5-6).

All this is true, but the reformed teaching goes beyond this to claim that man is so tainted by sin that he cannot even accept the offer of Christ’s salvation and receive Christ's deliverance from sin.,

This is contrary to scripture, which asks us to believe and says we can receive the gospel in faith: Rom 10:9-13, John 3:14-21, Luke 11:5-13, Heb 11:13-16, Gal 3:24, Deut 30:11-14, I Cor 15:1, etc).

As such, most Calvinists hold that spiritual regeneration must occur *before* one believes (to allow the person to believe), and still others that we must receive the Spirit before faith. Both of these are contrary to scripture which states we receive the Holy Spirit after we believe, not before: Gal 3:2-3, Gal 3:10-14, Eph 1:11-14, II Cor 5:17, etc). It is also contrary to the idea that Christ's work was sufficient on the cross to save man.

By taking the teaching of sin corrupting man far beyond the bounds of what scripture actually states, this teaching obscures the simplicity of the gospel as taught in Jn 3:16 and other places - that those who believe will not perish, but hold eternal life.


What are the doctrines of grace?
What is Calvinism and is it biblical? What are the five points of Calvinism?
How are predestination and election connected with foreknowledge?

 

[joshua 1 9]

God omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, makes him what Psalm 139 proclaims. He knows my thoughts before I think them etc.

If God can know your thoughts He can also NOT know your thoughts. The point is that you can not blame God. He gives us choice in areas like Sickness or Health, Poverty or Prosperity, Life or Death, Blessing or Curse. The road destruction is an easy way to go. The road to life is not always so easy. For example, if you want a good job with good pay you may need to get an college education. This is not always easy to do. In American we have lots of opportunities. In third world nations they may not have all the opportunities that we have and they need to take advantage of what is available for them. If people are born in poverty it maybe a long slow climb for them to God's prosperity. So they have to work and take advantage of the opportunities available for them.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Neither Arminianism or Calvinism fully reflect what scripture says.

John Wesley was a part of that discussion also and people seem to forget that and they want to disregard the Holiness movement.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Yes, the thread of election runs both through the O.T.and the N.T. It cannot be ignored. Jesus also made it clear in a number of places. In particular, I was first impressed with Jacob and Esau. God said, "Jacob have I lived and Esau have I hated."
To peel this onion one can go back to Cain and Able and Gods curse on the serpent, talking about the seed of the devil ( Jesus: Ye are of your father, the devil." And the seed of the woman. ( The Virgin Mary-Jesus)

In Genesis chapter 25 Rebekah became pregnant and even in the womb the babies struggled with each other. "So she went to inquire of the Lord.

23 The Lord said to her,

“Two nations are in your womb,
and two peoples from within you will be separated;
one people will be stronger than the other,
and the older will serve the younger.”

The point here is that there were two nations in her womb. Paul uses this story to show that: "God’s purpose in election might stand". It takes Paul three chapters to explain the point that he was trying to make. This has to do with Israel as a nation and the Gentiles. The old and new covenant or testament.

The Church or the New Testament is greater or stronger than the Old. They looked forward to the work Jesus did at Calvary and we look back to the work Jesus did for us at Calvary. Either way it is the work that Jesus did that saves us and not our own works. (After Calvary Jesus had the Keys)

Of course Paul explains that saved people do good works. This is evidence that they are saved. But good works does not save us.

 

[joshua 1 9]

In verse 21 we read: "Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?" The same clay can be used for a Holy Vessel to be used in the temple compared to a common vessel for common use. If we want to be a Holy Vessel to be used by God for His purpose then we need to be Holy, Sanctified and Set apart.