If God Exists, He is Necessarily Triune

SolomonVII

Well-Known Member
Sep 4, 2003
23,138
4,918
Vancouver
✟155,006.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
Upvote 0

JESUS=G.O.A.T

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2016
2,681
659
27
Houston
✟68,441.00
Country
United States
Faith
Apostolic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
http://christianity.net.au/questions/what_is_the_relationship_between_the_father_son_and_holy_spirit

It is fairly common to understand that the what defines Trinity is eternal, perfect relationship.
And that God is love, which cannot exist independently of relationship.
https://www.thoughtco.com/god-is-love-bible-verse-701340
Given that God does exist independently of us(his creation) and he is not dependent on us for love, then that relationship becomes dependant on the Godhead himself.
If there is no relationship, then love becomes essentially a meaningless term. Love is the relationship between two persons, and it is in and of itself creative and fruitful. What the Son returns to the Father, the Father pours out on all of us, his Holy Spirit, actively transforming the world as a result of the fruition of the love between father and son.
It is all biblical.

i


response to what you said:

1. Also God is light yet there wasn't any light until Genesis 1:3 so why can't Love be the same? Why can't we believe that this God is so amazing that he is Love itself... If he was Light before LIght was made manifest then I mean same can be said for Love. He was Love before he had a loving relationship with anyone else.

But now I would like to focus on the whole...God is love thing...and bring out more so what what i'm dissinmenating to you.

3 john 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.

John 14:6 King James Version (KJV)

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


Comment: this is more than just....i walk in truth...I express truth.... just as God is love....is more than For God so loved the world....Love thy neighbor... it includes that....but involves more then just that expression of Love. To say I am truth..is more then just me being an expressor of Truth...I am that very Truth that can be expressed. God is that very Love that can be expressed in a relationship.

God is literally saying....My very being is Truth....is LOve....sure I can express that as well in the form of a relationship as I did when I died for you....but I alone was....am.....and will be....Love. I didn't need you...or anyone else....to be Love.


God doens't need another "God person" or "regular person" to be Love....it's in his very being to be Love....Light....and Truth. Your own link says this "Love is not merely an attribute of God, it is his very nature".



I am in the greek comes from the term eimi...which implies timeless implications... when it applies to God it means I am...was...will be




2. so based off what you said there is a God the Father, God the son, God the holy SPirit and these 3 Gods are in a relationship? so a 3-way? That's....disturbing


response to the links:


1. First link I can agree with becuase it's straight up bible...God is love...God loves us... God expects us to love.



2. I read the second LInk....I hope you realize it's suggesting God is a what....a collection of individuals.....not a "who".


But that argument makes this scripture rather interesting

Colossians 2:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.


3 distinct "persons" in one human body? why isn't that one human body called the Son,father,Spirit of God then... if that's the case?

Unless...the Son along with the Spirit...are just ways in which one God expresses himself.


Notice how in inspired scripture ...The words, “God the Father” (1 Corinthians 8:6), or similar designations such as “God our Father” (Philippians 1:2; Ephesians 1:2), and “God and Father” (Ephesians 4:6) appear more than 30 times in the New Testament, but we never find a single example of an alleged God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit ever occurring in inspired scripture, not even once.




It's always SPirit of God, HOly Spirit, SPirit of JEsus

Son of God....Son of God...yeah


SOn of God......


SPirit of God...

They are of God....when one has the HOly Spirit...the SPirit of God ....they have the Spirit of a God....


Son references the human body (I can show this to you if you like) So body of God.....


 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

JESUS=G.O.A.T

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2016
2,681
659
27
Houston
✟68,441.00
Country
United States
Faith
Apostolic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I mean I feel i we just read "God is love"..... "Spirit of God" as it is....we would understand the bible a lot better.


If I say Spirit of God.....that Spirit is of GOd.... if I say "God is love".... then God all by himself is love.... I mean?

IF I didn't know the trinity existed...i'm not sure how I would get "the Gods are love" (3 God persons in the trinity) from "God is love"....but becuase we look at this....trinity first in articles/ videos etc. ...and then the bible....that's what happens.
 
Upvote 0

SolomonVII

Well-Known Member
Sep 4, 2003
23,138
4,918
Vancouver
✟155,006.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
I think that I have already demonstrated well enough that my argument was inherently biblical and based in Biblical principles, and the logic that flows from common creedal understandings of Biblical Christianity, and the plain meaning of words.
The Biblical verses that reference my arguments are all there in those links.
That was all that was asked of me. I don't really need to defend the links themselves, just use them to show that the arguments themselves derive from the Bible.

Is my argument Biblical then?
Well, yes it is. The links demonstrate this. The arguments follow coherently from biblical sources.

Is my argument logical?
According to the plain usage of language, there certainly is nothing to show otherwise.

I see no reason to disagree with the OP therefore. He has made a case to me that is both Biblical and logical.
Arguments to the contrary have so farbeen tangential and weak.
 
Upvote 0

JESUS=G.O.A.T

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2016
2,681
659
27
Houston
✟68,441.00
Country
United States
Faith
Apostolic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I think that I have already demonstrated well enough that my argument was inherently biblical and based in Biblical principles, and the logic that flows from common creedal understandings of Biblical Christianity, and the plain meaning of words.
The Biblical verses that reference my arguments are all there in those links.
That was all that was asked of me. I don't really need to defend the links themselves, just use them to show that the arguments themselves derive from the Bible.

Is my argument Biblical then?
Well, yes it is. The links demonstrate this. The arguments follow coherently from biblical sources.

Is my argument logical?
According to the plain usage of language, there certainly is nothing to show otherwise.

I see no reason to disagree with the OP therefore. He has made a case to me that is both Biblical and logical.
Arguments to the contrary have so farbeen tangential and weak.


1. THe first article didn't support your argument at all. All it said was what we both agree with....God is love....God shows love to his people....but it never supports a trinity. Maybe the Author believes in a Trinity....but all he does is recite scripture....never proposes a trinity.


2. I made a argument against the second link....so logically speaking you would respond by defending it...but I don't think you read my response....I want to reach and help people....I made the reply so that you make take it and learn from it.



But lastly if you are a "christian" I should see Christ in you....Christ took time to listen to what the pharisees had to say even though they were wrong...he listened to what they said and responded. IF you can't respect me with a simple....read....of what I feel and a response....then I mean?


Again it's up to you though...but I read what you said....even though I thought it was totally off...out of respect for you cause that's what Jesus would do. The bible says be slow to speak and quick to listen keep that in mind....God bless you.
 
Upvote 0

SolomonVII

Well-Known Member
Sep 4, 2003
23,138
4,918
Vancouver
✟155,006.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
The Biblical support for my argument is God is love. It has been established therefore that the premise of my argument is based in the Bible.
God is Love.
And what does love mean?

My argument flowed from the dictionary meaning of love, which involves a relationship.
Any argument that the relationship exists with eternal creation has been Biblically refuted.

Therefore, Trinity.

That is what you need to make your argument against, not the arguments of the links which were supplied only to demonstrate that there is a Biblical basis for my argument in the first place.
 
Upvote 0

SolomonVII

Well-Known Member
Sep 4, 2003
23,138
4,918
Vancouver
✟155,006.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
The Biblical support for my argument is God is love. It has been established therefore that the premise of my argument is based in the Bible.
God is Love.
And what does love mean?

My argument flowed from the dictionary meaning of love, which involves a relationship.
Any argument that the relationship exists with eternal creation has been Biblically refuted.

Therefore, Trinity.

That is what you need to make your argument against, not the arguments of the links which were supplied only to demonstrate that there is a Biblical basis for my argument in the first place.
 
Upvote 0

SolomonVII

Well-Known Member
Sep 4, 2003
23,138
4,918
Vancouver
✟155,006.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
The Biblical support for my argument is God is love. It has been established therefore that the premise of my argument is based in the Bible.
God is Love.
And what does love mean?

My argument flowed from the dictionary meaning of love, which involves a relationship.
Any argument that the relationship exists with eternal creation has been Biblically refuted.

Therefore, Trinity.

That is what you need to make your argument against, not the arguments of the links which were supplied only to demonstrate that there is a Biblical basis for my argument in the first place.
 
Upvote 0

SolomonVII

Well-Known Member
Sep 4, 2003
23,138
4,918
Vancouver
✟155,006.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
The Biblical support for my argument is God is love. It has been established therefore that the premise of my argument is based in the Bible.
God is Love.
And what does love mean?

My argument flowed from the dictionary meaning of love, which involves a relationship.
Any argument that the relationship exists with eternal creation has been Biblically refuted.

Therefore, Trinity.

That is what you need to make your argument against, not the arguments of the links which were supplied only to demonstrate that there is a Biblical basis for my argument in the first place.
 
Upvote 0

SolomonVII

Well-Known Member
Sep 4, 2003
23,138
4,918
Vancouver
✟155,006.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
The Biblical support for my argument is God is love. It has been established therefore that the premise of my argument is based in the Bible.
God is Love.
And what does love mean?

My argument flowed from the dictionary meaning of love, which involves a relationship.
Any argument that the relationship exists with eternal creation has been Biblically refuted.

Therefore, Trinity.

That is what you need to make your argument against, not the arguments of the links which were supplied only to demonstrate that there is a Biblical basis for my argument in the first place.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

JESUS=G.O.A.T

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2016
2,681
659
27
Houston
✟68,441.00
Country
United States
Faith
Apostolic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
The Biblical support for my argument is God is love. It has been established therefore that the premise of my argument is based in the Bible.
God is Love.
And what does love mean?

My argument flowed from the dictionary meaning of love, which involves a relationship.
Any argument that the relationship exists with eternal creation has been Biblically refuted.

Therefore, Trinity.

That is what you need to make your argument against, not the arguments of the links which were supplied only to demonstrate that there is a Biblical basis for my argument in the first place.
..... you didn’t read what I said at all
 
Upvote 0

JESUS=G.O.A.T

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2016
2,681
659
27
Houston
✟68,441.00
Country
United States
Faith
Apostolic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
The Biblical support for my argument is God is love. It has been established therefore that the premise of my argument is based in the Bible.
God is Love.
And what does love mean?

My argument flowed from the dictionary meaning of love, which involves a relationship.
Any argument that the relationship exists with eternal creation has been Biblically refuted.

Therefore, Trinity.

That is what you need to make your argument against, not the arguments of the links which were supplied only to demonstrate that there is a Biblical basis for my argument in the first place.
Most of my response was against what you said...not the link... as I said already the first link didn’t directly support the trinity... so I didn’t address it... only the secound link did. I addressed your argument... and then the 2nd link... just read the address to your argument if you’re interested.. but if not stop posting reasons not to be quick to listen and slow to speak, resons to restate your points and not read mine at all. Just don’t respond if you’re not interested in discussing the word.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

SolomonVII

Well-Known Member
Sep 4, 2003
23,138
4,918
Vancouver
✟155,006.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
..... you didn’t read what I said at all
I read what you said about how respectful you were being, and I read what you said about Trinity being some kind of threesome.
I am sure therefore that your depicting others deep beliefs in good as some sort of menage a trois was meant with the deepest of respect therefore.


so based off what you said there is a God the Father, God the son, God the holy SPirit and these 3 Gods are in a relationship? so a 3-way? That's....disturbing
 
Upvote 0

Eliyahu52

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2018
519
25
109
Judea
✟20,892.00
Country
Israel
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Private
Bs"d

God is one, and therefore not three.

"Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4

"Listen, Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One" Holman Christian Standard Bible

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." English Standard Version

"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!" New American Standard Bible

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." New International Version

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!" New King James Version"







"And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the first of all?" Jesus answered, "The first is, `Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, THE LORD IS ONE; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' The second is this, `You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." And the scribe said to him, "You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that HE IS ONE, and there is no other but he; and to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God."" Mark 12:28-34 Revised Standard Version

“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." .... "You are right in saying that God is one" New International Version

"Here is the most important one. Moses said, 'Israel, listen to me. The Lord is our God. The Lord is one." .... "You are right in saying that God is one." New International Readers Version

"Jesus answered: Listen, Israel! The Lord our God, The Lord is One." .... "You have correctly said that He is One," Holman Christian Standard Bible

"Jesus answered, The first is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God, the Lord is one:" .... "thou hast well said that he is one;" American Standard Version

"Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is:Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one." New King James Version

"Jesus answered, "The most important is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one" .... "You have truly said that he is one," English Standard Version

"Jesus said, "The first in importance is, 'Listen, Israel: The Lord your God is one;" .... "A wonderful answer, Teacher! So lucid and accurate—that God is one" The Message

"‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one." .... “You are right in saying that God is one" New International Version







"Now an intermediary implies more than one; but GOD IS ONE." Gal 3:20 Revised Standard Version

"Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but GOD IS ONE" King James Version

"A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but GOD IS ONE." New International Version

"Now an intermediary implies more than one, but GOD IS ONE." English Standard Version

"Now a mediator is not a mediator of one; but GOD IS ONE." American Standard Version

"and the mediator is not of one, and GOD IS ONE" Youngs Literal Translation







"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." James 2:19 Revised Standard Version

"thou -- thou dost believe that GOD IS ONE; thou dost well," Youngs Literal translation

"Thou believest that GOD IS ONE; thou doest well:" American Standard Version

"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." Holman Christian Standard Bible.

"*Thou* believest that GOD IS ONE. Thou doest well." Darby Translation.

"It’s good that you believe that GOD IS ONE." Common English Bible

"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." English Standard Version

"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." Amplified Bible

"You believe that GOD IS ONE You do well;" New American Standard Bible




So the Bible teaches clearly that God is ONE.



"And J-e-h-o-v-a-h shall be King over all the earth: in that day shall J-e-h-o-v-a-h be one, and his name one." Zach 14:9 American Standard Version

"And the LORD shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be— “The LORD is one, And His name one." New King James Version

"And the LORD will be king over all the earth. On that day the LORD will be one and his name one." English Standard Version

"And the Lord shall be King over all the earth; in that day the Lord shall be one [in the recognition and worship of men] and His name one." Amplified Bible
 
  • Agree
Reactions: JESUS=G.O.A.T
Upvote 0

JESUS=G.O.A.T

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2016
2,681
659
27
Houston
✟68,441.00
Country
United States
Faith
Apostolic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I read what you said about how respectful you were being, and I read what you said about Trinity being some kind of threesome.
I am sure therefore that your depicting others deep beliefs in good as some sort of menage a trois was meant with the deepest of respect therefore.
It was a joke because the way you described the trinity made it come across that way. Not my fault you failed to articulate your thoughts well there. And if you were upset about the joke should have mentioned that lol. There is something called communication.... it’s a useful tool to utilize.. but I doubt a guy who doesn’t listen to what others have to say could learn this. Not to mention you used that one word as yet another Exscuse to not reply.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Oseas

Well-Known Member
Jun 23, 2017
1,973
179
87
Joinville
✟114,976.00
Country
Brazil
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Bs"d

There are no capitals in Hebrew, so every capital you see in your translation is made up by the translators.

Genesis 1:26; "Let us make man" If anybody finds in a text the word "us", would any normal person assume that it refers to one person with a multi-personality disorder? Of course not.

But why then, when Christians see the word "us" in the Bible, do they think that?

Gen 1:26 is used as a 'proof' that there is more than one God, or one God who is not one, eventhough the Bible clearly teaches that there is only one God who is one. and despite the fact that there are several other valid explanations for the plural word "us". One explanation is that it is a majestic plural as used by kings. Another possible explanation is that God was talking to the angels.

Some Christians try to refute the last argument by saying that the angels didn't create. They point to Genesis 1:1; "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." They say: 'God was the creator, and not the angels.' However, it is a given in Jewish law that an emissary is equal to the one who sends him. When a Jewish man marries a woman through an agent, the legal effect is the same as when he marries her personally. A good Biblical example of this is to be found in Genesis 19 where is spoken about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. God sent two angels to destroy the cities, the angels said to Lot in verse 13: "For we are about to destroy this place, because the outcry against its people has become great before the LORD, and the LORD has sent us to destroy it." Upon this Lot says to his sons in law: "Up, get out of this place; for the LORD is about to destroy the city." Lot didn't say: "The angels are going to destroy the city" He said: "The LORD (Y-H-W-H in the Hebrew text) is going to destroy the city". And in verse 29 it is written: "So it was that, when God destroyed the cities of the valley...." So the angels were send by God to destroy the cities, but God is considered to be the one who did it, because He was the one who sent them. So why shouldn't the same hold true for the creation?

But one way or the other, no plural created man. Look in Genesis 5:1; "When God created man ..." In Hebrew this is: "bara Elohiem adam" Here the verb "to create", in Hebrew "bara", is in the singular, indicating clearly that Elohiem who created man is one. The same goes for the very first verse of the Bible: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." The word created is here written in the singular; it says "bara". If God was a plural, it should have been "baru".


BUT, back to the pronouns, Y-H-W-H says the following:

Isaiah 44:6 “This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

It says "I" am Y-H-W-H. And, as we all know, "I" is singular, and not plural, and therefore no three persons in Y-H-W-H. Otherwise He would have said: "WE are Y-H-W-H."

But no such thing, God says: "I am Y-H-W-H".

No trinity.

Another example of a pronoun:

Nehemiah 9:6 “You alone are Y-H-W-H.”

As we see, it says that YOU, in the Hebrew singular, not plural are Y-H-W-H.

Again, no YOU, plural, are Y-H-W-H, but YOU singular, are Y-H-W-H.

So no three persons in God.

Another one:

Isaiah 44:6 “This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Clear what? It doesn't say: “This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: WE are the first and WE are the last; apart from US there is no God.

No such a thing, it is all SINGULAR.

Another one:

Joel 2:27 “Then you will know that I am in Israel, that I am Y-H-W-H your God, and that there is no other;”

Again, God says: "I am Y-H-W-H", and not "WE are Y-H-W-H" Such a thing simply doesn't exist.

I can go on and on with this, but these examples suffice. There is NO plurality in God.

And the word "us" when God speaks to the angels, does not imply otherwise.
Bs"d

There are no capitals in Hebrew, so every capital you see in your translation is made up by the translators.

Genesis 1:26; "Let us make man" If anybody finds in a text the word "us", would any normal person assume that it refers to one person with a multi-personality disorder? Of course not.

But why then, when Christians see the word "us" in the Bible, do they think that?

Gen 1:26 is used as a 'proof' that there is more than one God, or one God who is not one, eventhough the Bible clearly teaches that there is only one God who is one. and despite the fact that there are several other valid explanations for the plural word "us". One explanation is that it is a majestic plural as used by kings. Another possible explanation is that God was talking to the angels.

Some Christians try to refute the last argument by saying that the angels didn't create. They point to Genesis 1:1; "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." They say: 'God was the creator, and not the angels.' However, it is a given in Jewish law that an emissary is equal to the one who sends him. When a Jewish man marries a woman through an agent, the legal effect is the same as when he marries her personally. A good Biblical example of this is to be found in Genesis 19 where is spoken about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. God sent two angels to destroy the cities, the angels said to Lot in verse 13: "For we are about to destroy this place, because the outcry against its people has become great before the LORD, and the LORD has sent us to destroy it." Upon this Lot says to his sons in law: "Up, get out of this place; for the LORD is about to destroy the city." Lot didn't say: "The angels are going to destroy the city" He said: "The LORD (Y-H-W-H in the Hebrew text) is going to destroy the city". And in verse 29 it is written: "So it was that, when God destroyed the cities of the valley...." So the angels were send by God to destroy the cities, but God is considered to be the one who did it, because He was the one who sent them. So why shouldn't the same hold true for the creation?

But one way or the other, no plural created man. Look in Genesis 5:1; "When God created man ..." In Hebrew this is: "bara Elohiem adam" Here the verb "to create", in Hebrew "bara", is in the singular, indicating clearly that Elohiem who created man is one. The same goes for the very first verse of the Bible: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." The word created is here written in the singular; it says "bara". If God was a plural, it should have been "baru".


BUT, back to the pronouns, Y-H-W-H says the following:

Isaiah 44:6 “This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

It says "I" am Y-H-W-H. And, as we all know, "I" is singular, and not plural, and therefore no three persons in Y-H-W-H. Otherwise He would have said: "WE are Y-H-W-H."

But no such thing, God says: "I am Y-H-W-H".

No trinity.

Another example of a pronoun:

Nehemiah 9:6 “You alone are Y-H-W-H.”

As we see, it says that YOU, in the Hebrew singular, not plural are Y-H-W-H.

Again, no YOU, plural, are Y-H-W-H, but YOU singular, are Y-H-W-H.

So no three persons in God.

Another one:

Isaiah 44:6 “This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Clear what? It doesn't say: “This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: WE are the first and WE are the last; apart from US there is no God.

No such a thing, it is all SINGULAR.

Another one:

Joel 2:27 “Then you will know that I am in Israel, that I am Y-H-W-H your God, and that there is no other;”

Again, God says: "I am Y-H-W-H", and not "WE are Y-H-W-H" Such a thing simply doesn't exist.

I can go on and on with this, but these examples suffice. There is NO plurality in God.

And the word "us" when God speaks to the angels, does not imply otherwise.
 
Upvote 0

Oseas

Well-Known Member
Jun 23, 2017
1,973
179
87
Joinville
✟114,976.00
Country
Brazil
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Bs"d

There are no capitals in Hebrew, so every capital you see in your translation is made up by the translators.

Genesis 1:26; "Let us make man" If anybody finds in a text the word "us", would any normal person assume that it refers to one person with a multi-personality disorder? Of course not.

But why then, when Christians see the word "us" in the Bible, do they think that?

Gen 1:26 is used as a 'proof' that there is more than one God, or one God who is not one, eventhough the Bible clearly teaches that there is only one God who is one. and despite the fact that there are several other valid explanations for the plural word "us". One explanation is that it is a majestic plural as used by kings. Another possible explanation is that God was talking to the angels.

Some Christians try to refute the last argument by saying that the angels didn't create. They point to Genesis 1:1; "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." They say: 'God was the creator, and not the angels.' However, it is a given in Jewish law that an emissary is equal to the one who sends him. When a Jewish man marries a woman through an agent, the legal effect is the same as when he marries her personally. A good Biblical example of this is to be found in Genesis 19 where is spoken about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. God sent two angels to destroy the cities, the angels said to Lot in verse 13: "For we are about to destroy this place, because the outcry against its people has become great before the LORD, and the LORD has sent us to destroy it." Upon this Lot says to his sons in law: "Up, get out of this place; for the LORD is about to destroy the city." Lot didn't say: "The angels are going to destroy the city" He said: "The LORD (Y-H-W-H in the Hebrew text) is going to destroy the city". And in verse 29 it is written: "So it was that, when God destroyed the cities of the valley...." So the angels were send by God to destroy the cities, but God is considered to be the one who did it, because He was the one who sent them. So why shouldn't the same hold true for the creation?

But one way or the other, no plural created man. Look in Genesis 5:1; "When God created man ..." In Hebrew this is: "bara Elohiem adam" Here the verb "to create", in Hebrew "bara", is in the singular, indicating clearly that Elohiem who created man is one. The same goes for the very first verse of the Bible: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." The word created is here written in the singular; it says "bara". If God was a plural, it should have been "baru".


BUT, back to the pronouns, Y-H-W-H says the following:

Isaiah 44:6 “This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

It says "I" am Y-H-W-H. And, as we all know, "I" is singular, and not plural, and therefore no three persons in Y-H-W-H. Otherwise He would have said: "WE are Y-H-W-H."

But no such thing, God says: "I am Y-H-W-H".

No trinity.

Another example of a pronoun:

Nehemiah 9:6 “You alone are Y-H-W-H.”

As we see, it says that YOU, in the Hebrew singular, not plural are Y-H-W-H.

Again, no YOU, plural, are Y-H-W-H, but YOU singular, are Y-H-W-H.

So no three persons in God.

Another one:

Isaiah 44:6 “This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Clear what? It doesn't say: “This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: WE are the first and WE are the last; apart from US there is no God.

No such a thing, it is all SINGULAR.

Another one:

Joel 2:27 “Then you will know that I am in Israel, that I am Y-H-W-H your God, and that there is no other;”

Again, God says: "I am Y-H-W-H", and not "WE are Y-H-W-H" Such a thing simply doesn't exist.
I can go on and on with this, but these examples suffice. There is NO plurality in God.
And the word "us" when God speaks to the angels, does not imply otherwise.

Greetings
In the beginning, the name of God that prevails according to the Old Testament is that name that God himself revealed to Moses. First we must say that God is only a title, the Word is God (John 1: 1) Any questions? This explains why we serve and work for an invisible God, the Word. So, what is the name of God that prevails, said by own Himself to Moses?
(Exo. 3:13KJV) - 13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
(Exo. 3:13 Complete Jewish Bible) 13 Moshe said to God, “Look, when I appear before the people of Isra’el and say to them, ‘The God of your ancestors has sent me to you’; and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what am I to tell them?”
In His answer God said unto Moses (Exo.3:14): 14 "I Am That I AM: and He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you". See, until this moment (Exo.3: v.14) God had not yet revealed His name to Moses.
(Exo.3:v.14 CJB) 14 God said to Moshe, “Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh [I AM/will BE what I AM/will BE],” and added, “Here is what to say to the people of Isra’el: ‘Ehyeh [I Am or I Will Be] has sent me to you.’” Again: See, until this moment (Exo.3: v.14) God had not yet revealed His name to Moses. But there is an important detail in the Jewish Bible, that says: "I will BE". Rev. 1:v.8KJV - 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. In Revelation He is no more "I will be" , but He which is to come, the Almighty, who is the person of Yeshua/JESUS, the Word made flesh.
(Exo.3:v.15KJV) - 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: THIS IS MY NAME for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. (So, what is the name of God that He told Moses He had? As God said, His name is: "the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob", as the own God did say. (So, what is the name of God that He told Moses He had? As God said, His name was: "the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob", yes, it was what the own God did say.
Outside this, the men found better to create an human name and nicknames to God as: Adonai, YHWH Jehovah, Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh, El Shadday.
The worse is that in addition to this boldness in to invent and changing the name of God, later times, when God (the Word is God) yes, when the Word was made flesh, He was Judged by the men, and they condemned Him and they killed Him. Poor men.
(Exo. 3:15 CJB) 15 God said further to Moshe, Say this to the people of Isra’el: *"the God of your fathers, the God of Avraham, the God of Yitz’chak and the God of Ya‘akov, has sent me to you.’ This is my name FOREVER; this is HOW I AM TO BE REMEMBERED generation after generation. 16 Go, gather the leaders of Isra’el together, and say to them, "the God of your fathers, the God of Avraham, Yitz’chak and Ya‘akov, has appeared to me and said", I have been paying close attention to you and have seen what is being done to you in Egypt.
*In the Complete Jewish Bible was added: ‘Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh [Adonai]; this is not true because contradict what God said (the Word is God, the invisible God) when He left very clear to the people of Israel saying that His name was: "the God of your fathers, the God of Avraham, the God of Yitz’chak and the God of Ya‘akov.’ This is my name FOREVER; this is HOW I AM TO BE REMEMBERED generation after generation. And God had said more this: (Exo. 6:v.3KJV) 3 I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, BY MY NAME of God Almighty, but BY MY NAME the LORD (Yeshua) was I not known to them. (God is a title, the Word is God; then who is the Almighty? The Almighty is Yeshua (Rev.1:v.8), who is the Word made flesh).
(Exo.6:v.3 Complete Jewish Bible) I appeared to Avraham, Yitz’chak and Ya‘akov as El Shaddai, although I did not make myself known to them BY MY NAME (Yehsua was His name), not Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh [Adonai] or Y H W H Yhovah, or El Shadday.
El Shaddai - Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh [Adonai] - Y H W H or Yehovah are not the name or names of God, even in Hebrew language, the true name of God was only one and was hidded, was in occult, and His true name was YESHUA. This is the occult name of God in the Old Testament. Outside this, the men found better to create an human name and nicknames to God as: Adonai, Y H W H, Yehovah, Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh, El Shadday.
Rev. 22:18-19CJB
18 I warn everyone hearing the words of the prophecy in this book that if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues written in this book. 19 And if anyone takes anything away from the words in the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the Tree of Life and the holy city, as described in this book.
Luke 1:30-33 CJB
30 The angel said to her, “Don’t be afraid, Miryam, for you have found favor with God.
31 Look! You will become pregnant, you will give birth to a son, and you are to name him Yeshua. (This is the NAME that God Himself chose for Himself, which was hidden during the Old Testament.)
32 He will be great, he will be called *Son of God (God is a title, the Word is God, the invisible God) , will give him the throne of his forefather David; 33 and he will rule the House of Ya‘akov forever — there will be no end to his Kingdom.”
*Son of Ha‘Elyon. Adonai - *Son of God
(God is a title, the Word is God, the invisible God) What is the name of God? (the Word is God) the name which the Word (the own God) chose for Himself was Yeshua, not Adonai among others.
John 8:v.54-59CJV
54 Yeshua answered to the Jews: “If I praise myself, my praise counts for nothing. The One who is praising me is my Father, the very one about whom you keep saying, ‘He is our God.’ 55 Now YOU HAVE NOT KNOWM HIM, but I do know Him; indeed, if I were to say that I don’t know Him, I would be a liar like you! But I do know Him, and I obey His word. 56 Avraham, your father, was glad that he would see my day; then he saw it and was overjoyed.”
57 “Why, you’re not yet fifty years old,” the Judeans replied, “and you have seen Avraham?”
58 Yeshua said to them, “Yes, indeed! Before Avraham came into being, I AM!”
59 At this, they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Yeshua was hidden and left the Temple grounds.
To finish, let us all remember:
Acts 4:11-12 CJB
11 “This Yeshua is the stone rejected by you builders which has become the cornerstone.
12 There is salvation in no one else! For there is no other NAME under heaven ( Adonai, Y H W H, Yehovah, Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh, El Shadday) given to mankind by whom we must be saved!”
(Exo.3:v.14 Complete Jewish Bible) 14 God said to Moshe, “Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh [I AM/will BE what I AM/will BE],” and added, “Here is what to say to the people of Isra’el: ‘Ehyeh [I Am or I Will Be] has sent me to you.’” Again: See, until this moment (Exo.3: v.14) God had not yet revealed His name to Moses. But there is an important detail in the Jewish Bible, that says: "I will BE". Rev. 1:v.8KJV - 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. In Revelation He is no more "I will be" , but He which is to come, the Almighty, who is the person of Yeshua/JESUS, the Word made flesh.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Acts2:38

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2017
1,593
660
Naples
✟71,708.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Sorry it took me this long to respond to your post.

I haven't seen this information. It is interesting to see this material. They are still left with questions though.

(1) God was talking to the angels and taking counsel from them, asking for their input. Why did an infinite God require anyone else’s advice? The commentator Rashi explains based on the Midrash that it was an act of humility. Since man in some ways resembles the angels, they might feel jealous that such a lofty creature resides upon Earth. God thus took their opinion into account and conferred with them beforehand. As Rashi continues, this teaches an important lesson in humility – that the superior should always seek the advice of his underlings before making a decision which impacts upon them (Midrash Genesis Rabbah 8:7, Rashi, Targum Yonatan).

I have a very hard time believing this with certain verses in mind.

Romans 2:11 - For there is no respect of persons with God.

Acts 10:34 - Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Galatians 2:6 - But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:

1 Peter 1:17 - And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Deuteronomy 10:17 - For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

I highly doubt God showing "humility" as described here. Jesus may have done this out of love and obedience in fleshly form, but like Rashi explains, I dont think so. It would make it hard for Rashi, if he follows jewish religion, to understand this since Jewish religion dictates Jesus was NOT God in the flesh like so many scriptures claim that he would ignore on account of his jewish faith.

(2) God was addressing the earth – instructing it to bring forth man's body. “Let us” implies that both God and the earth would create man – the earth would produce man's body (in a process obviously controlled by God), and God would directly breathe in man's soul (Nachmanides).

This one seems very far fetched to me. How many times do you see God speaking to inanimate objects in that fashion "Let us make..."?

Also, your left with the funny notion, is God's image the image of Earth? Are we the image of Earth?

Is He the likeness of the Earth? Are the angels? Are we?

v26 "...Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..."

v27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him..."

Nachmanides failed to make this connection.

(3) God was addressing all of creation, asking each part to contribute its various strengths and qualities to man's creation – for man is the pinnacle of God's creation and contains the elements of everything within him (Vilna Gaon).

Vilna Gaon made the same mistake as Nachmanides. They both failed to make the connection in their haste to twist scripture in their unbelief.

v26 "...Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..."

v27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him..."
 
Upvote 0

SolomonVII

Well-Known Member
Sep 4, 2003
23,138
4,918
Vancouver
✟155,006.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
It was a joke because the way you described the trinity made it come across that way. Not my fault you failed to articulate your thoughts well there. And if you were upset about the joke should have mentioned that lol. There is something called communication.... it’s a useful tool to utilize.. but I doubt a guy who doesn’t listen to what others have to say could learn this. Not to mention you used that one word as yet another Exscuse to not reply.
Yea, that is a real funny joke all right. Which person with a Christ like mind doesn’t snigger and sees homo eroticism and incestuous implications in talk about the love of the Trinity?
And I am not interested in your own personal interpretation of Scriptures. For two thousands years Christians have understood Trinity from Scripture. It is hubris to dismiss that as if your own abilities are so much more spiritual than everyone who has come before.
You asked for scripture that my position is based in,and I gave it to you. It is the same Scripture that all Trinitarians use to come to their own understandings about God.
My post however was not about IF the Trinity is or isn’t Scriptural. My post was a commentary on the OP of how Trinity is a higher conception of God,that which none greater may be conceived in imagination or reality. That of course is a paraphrase.
You are quite correct in your understanding that I have no interest in your hubris in thinking that your own interpretation of Scripture is superior. It was you that replied to my post, not me to yours. if you want to discuss the arguments of my post, great. It is about why Trinity is a superior conception of God.
But, no, I am not interested in discussing whether your personal interpretation of Scripture trumps two thousand years old scriptural understanding of Holy Trinity.
You make sex jokes about God. That is all I really need to know about you own personal views.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: JESUS=G.O.A.T
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Oseas

Well-Known Member
Jun 23, 2017
1,973
179
87
Joinville
✟114,976.00
Country
Brazil
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
He’s not triune

You are saying that, maybe because know not God as He is.

The Word (the Word is God) says different of you.

Yes, in truth there is only One God, true God, God the Creator. But He is a Triune God. God said (*the Word is God) : Let us make man in OUR image after OUR likeness (Gen.1:v.26). JESUS said: I and my Father are One (John 10:v.30). Two distincts persons, but One. But there are three that bear record in heaven: (1) the Father, (2) the Word (the Word made flesh), and (3) the Holy Spirit: and these three are One. Triune.

Either way, God has 7 spirits (Rev. 4:v.5). Do you know what are the 7 spirits of God? I believe they are mentioned in Scriptures one by one.

Rev. 5:v.6 : 6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
 
Upvote 0