If God asked you to kill someone from another group, would you?

[2PhiloVoid]

Saying that though seems to completely brush away or ignore the Old Testament, saying "Oh it's not valid, we have the New Testament now!", which is why I also mentioned if God asked you to do that and you lived in the Old Testament time period.

Fusing together an inquiry about the 'validity' of the Old Testament with another inquiry as to whether or not we'd kill people in another group if we had lived during Old Testament times is, to me, just a form of sophistry, Crystal.

As to the first issue (separately considered), yes, the Old Testament was 'fulfilled' for Christians, so we as Christians are not going to be concerned today about what David did to Goliath and his cousins way back when.

As to the second issue, I don't live in Old Testament times, but I'm sure if I had, AND it really looked to me like the Lord God Almighty was actually showing up here and there... then, since Democracy wasn't yet on anyone's mind to defray us from doing otherwise....I'm sure I would have participated in dealing with the opposing group, and that group would have ended up being a few numbers shorter after I ... obeyed God. Does this bother you, Crystal?

 

[Left]

Wow, CrystalDragon is getting some heat in this thread....

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Wow, CrystalDragon is getting some heat in this thread....

She can take it; she's tough! (She is a dragon, afterall!)

 

[Thedictator]

since Democracy wasn't yet on anyone's mind to defray us from doing otherwise....

Really, did you forget about the Greeks, they had democracy during this time. Democracy or Americanism has nothing to do with God's Law, his governesses, or kingdom.

 

[DingDing]

If God asked you to kill someone from another group, would you?

Depends upon if He said, "Pretty please", or not. Or perhaps if He threatened me with hell if I didn't.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Really, did you forget about the Greeks, they had democracy during this time. Democracy or Americanism has nothing to do with God's Law, his governesses, or kingdom.

You came in the middle of my conversation with Crystal. Do you understand my point to her? Do you understand her concerns?

 

[Thedictator]

What you need to understand is that those God ordered to be wiped out were of corrupt seed, the fallen angels who mixed with human women (see Gen 6). These were hybrid beings (as scientists are trying to create today....nothing new under the sun...).

God never ordered the genocide of fully human groups of people. If you keep this in mind those OT accounts will make more sense.

This is unbiblical, the bible does not teach about angels and humans mixing, this comes from Jewish myths, and the misunderstanding of scripture.

 

[Der Alte]

You can do your own research...it's easily done. I was merely using this as an example...in fact, a well known one. But I'm not going to derail this thread. If you would like to discuss this more please start a thread in the appropriate forum.

The thread was already derailed when you posted all that extraneous stuff and have failed to provide any evidence for it.

 

[Left]

Edit: Uh, never mind. I really don't want to get in on this.

 

[Thedictator]

You came in the middle of my conversation with Crystal. Do you understand my point to her? Do you understand her concerns?

Sorry, I just wanted to comment on that one thing, not sure how democracy fit into everything, but I agree with the rest.

 

[Der Alte]

Just seems like you asked him to prove common sense and didn't show anything to the contrary.

Please explain to me how this is "common sense?" This is what I asked Big Drew to provide evidence for.

"I think we can look at many of the Vietnam War veterans for that answer...so many didn't understand why they were there, they saw it as a pointless war...and years later many still suffer from the effects..."​

 

[Left]

I'm going to edit my post. I advise someone start a thread on the Vietnam thing. I will sit back and watch it unfold.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Sorry, I just wanted to comment on that one thing, not sure how democracy fit into everything, but I agree with the rest.

Basically, I was attempting to slip in an insinuation into what I was saying to Crystal. (The brass tacks point being that because people today find democracy so endearing, every single other political and social framework seems to be automatically compared to it, without question... thus, prompting the kind of skeptical innuendos that are articulated by those who see the Bible as a hard pill to swallow...)

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[Thedictator]

Basically, I was attempting to slip in an insinuation into what I was saying to Crystal. (The brass tacks point being that because people today find democracy so endearing, every single other political and social framework seems to be automatically compared to it, without question... thus, prompting the kind of skeptical innuendos that are articulated by those who see the Bible as a hard pill to swallow...)

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[SkyWriting]

(Feel free to move this if it should be in Ethics and Morality instead.)

Now before you say "God would never do that!" keep in mind that in the Old Testament, there were several times where God commanded entire cities to be destroyed and killed, including the infants. And disobedient children were sometimes stoned to death due to not following the Fourth Commandment (at least of the group commonly called the Ten Commandments. So as much as we may try to ignore it, if we go by the Bible there was a time when God commanded those things.

So even if you say God wouldn't do that now, it's clear he did at one point (and thus he could again since he's the same through time, right?). So, would you be willing to draw a heavy metal sword down upon the tiny body of an infant newborn if God commanded it? Even disregarding modern times, say if you lived in that time period and God asked you to do that, or stone disobedient children in your family or group. Would you do it?

Physical death is not as big a deal to God as it is to you.
You think it's life ending and God sees it as a totally
expected and planned for change of venue.
Might it be necessary? Perhaps.

 

[joshua 1 9]

(Feel free to move this if it should be in Ethics and Morality instead.)

Now before you say "God would never do that!" keep in mind that in the Old Testament, there were several times where God commanded entire cities to be destroyed and killed, including the infants. And disobedient children were sometimes stoned to death due to not following the Fourth Commandment (at least of the group commonly called the Ten Commandments. So as much as we may try to ignore it, if we go by the Bible there was a time when God commanded those things.

So even if you say God wouldn't do that now, it's clear he did at one point (and thus he could again since he's the same through time, right?). So, would you be willing to draw a heavy metal sword down upon the tiny body of an infant newborn if God commanded it? Even disregarding modern times, say if you lived in that time period and God asked you to do that, or stone disobedient children in your family or group. Would you do it?

We are not under law we are under grace. God is life and health and healing. He is not death and destruction, that is a result of the fallen condition of man.

 

[PropheticTimes]

This is unbiblical, the bible does not teach about angels and humans mixing, this comes from Jewish myths, and the misunderstanding of scripture.

Incorrect. There is indeed teaching on this in the Bible and your statement shows either your lack of knowledge of Scripture or the heavy cloud of cognitive dissonance fogging your mind. It was the very reason for the flood.

6 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Genesis 6:1-4

There are many references in the Bible to the Rephaim - the giants - who were the offspring of fallen angels and human women. No, these were not "the sons of Seth", they were the sons of GOD and if you do your research into the Hebrew words here it is clear what was meant.

If you truly wish to know more there is plenty of sound Biblical research on the topic. If you do not wish to know do not insult those of us who have done our homework.

God bless.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

(Feel free to move this if it should be in Ethics and Morality instead.)

Now before you say "God would never do that!" keep in mind that in the Old Testament, there were several times where God commanded entire cities to be destroyed and killed, including the infants. And disobedient children were sometimes stoned to death due to not following the Fourth Commandment (at least of the group commonly called the Ten Commandments. So as much as we may try to ignore it, if we go by the Bible there was a time when God commanded those things.

So even if you say God wouldn't do that now, it's clear he did at one point (and thus he could again since he's the same through time, right?). So, would you be willing to draw a heavy metal sword down upon the tiny body of an infant newborn if God commanded it? Even disregarding modern times, say if you lived in that time period and God asked you to do that, or stone disobedient children in your family or group. Would you do it?

Ok... I see a immediate problem with your suggestion.

Now before you say "God would never do that!" keep in mind that in the Old Testament, there were several times where God commanded entire cities to be destroyed and killed, including the infants. And disobedient children were sometimes stoned to death due to not following the Fourth Commandment (at least of the group commonly called the Ten Commandments.


My Response: God didn't command godly people first of all to destroy certain cities such as Sodom and Gomorrah, it's not like he had christians do this. Now sure in the OT some godly men went to war...but that's different I believe then one your suggesting and we don't live in a time like that anymore where you fight for territory and such so again this doesn't apply.

IK you have a response as to those who would suggest God wouldn't do that... but again the examples you give are all OT. And I believe the verse with the stoning you are referring to is this one.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21King James Version (KJV)
18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

But we should remember that rebellion is as witchcraft, or described that way in the OT it's not a light thing. Also they were under OT law and capital punishment, and as much as I hate to say it capital punishment back then was more based off what God desired rather than just humans (government we have today doesn't factor in God). SO again... this wouldn't apply becuase we have a government that operates under different man based laws.


ANd sure God is the same yesterday today and forever....but it's clear his manifestations and way he operates isn't. We can easily just take a look at how salvation changed through the bible as a prime example or the manifestation of the son of God aka God in flesh in the NT vs like a cloud in the OT. OR even the church in the NT vs places of worship in the OT. Or the NT scripture itself vs the OT scripture.



Also your question can't really be answered... we would be under a different set of laws, have a more harsh view of disobedience, and yeah different life, honestly I would say if I loved God/feared God as I do today... i'm sure I would do it. If I have that same desire to do what God says no matter what at that period of time I am sure I would obey him and follow the laws of the land.

Then again though God puts all of us in certain times for a reason... maybe I wouldn't be willing to follow his laws, maybe I would revolt or something. Maybe in a different time period I wouldn't survive. That's another thing that makes this question really impossible to answer lol.

You should maybe have asked if killing someone even if it was lawful/ordered by God or whatever was justifiable. Or something like that.

 

[Widlast]

I hope you realize that this is not 1500 B.C., and what God may have commanded the Israelites to do (as a group) against pagan tribes has nothing to do with this conversation.
If you think that God is commanding you to commit murder you are no different that Ted Kaczynski or Richard Ramirez.

 

[tulc]

(Feel free to move this if it should be in Ethics and Morality instead.)

Now before you say "God would never do that!" keep in mind that in the Old Testament, there were several times where God commanded entire cities to be destroyed and killed, including the infants. And disobedient children were sometimes stoned to death due to not following the Fourth Commandment (at least of the group commonly called the Ten Commandments. So as much as we may try to ignore it, if we go by the Bible there was a time when God commanded those things.

So even if you say God wouldn't do that now, it's clear he did at one point (and thus he could again since he's the same through time, right?). So, would you be willing to draw a heavy metal sword down upon the tiny body of an infant newborn if God commanded it? Even disregarding modern times, say if you lived in that time period and God asked you to do that, or stone disobedient children in your family or group. Would you do it?

No.
tulc(that was pretty easy)