If faith is a gift from God...

[janxharris]

If faith is a gift from God exclusively to the elect, and not everyone is elect, then there are some people that have no access to salvation.

I want to ask, if I may, if the Calvinists here on CF agree with this statement?

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

So let's get down to the issue.

Everyone has a worldview, and places their trust in a network of basic and fundamental presuppositions. Secular humanists for example, place their trust in man, man is the ultimate reality (their presupposition), in this sense, man is "god". Of course the assumption of man as ultimate,is a false god notion, further it is a misplaced trust, and therefore a kind of faith, an unregenerate kind of faith, which is also a pseudo faith. The Bible speaks of idol worshipers, of idolatry, etc. and the allegiance and reverence for false gods, comes from an unregenerate faith. Surely you do not deny that people of false faiths like Islam, Mormonism, etc. do not have a kind of faith?!?!

What makes regenerate faith to differ from unregenerate faith? GOD! Living faith is a gift from God, and Christ is the author and finisher of it! According to the Scriptures, "without faith it is impossible to please God". Dead faith cannot please God. In Scripture there is clearly a distinction between unregenerate faith (which is not faith in the true and living sense) and regenerate faith (true faith). So, none are capable of pleasing God until God first creates the faith to please Him! The dead faith is resurrected in the new birth, in which all things become new.

 

[janxharris]

So let's get down to the issue.

Everyone has a worldview, and places their trust in a network of basic and fundamental presuppositions. Secular humanists for example, place their trust in man, man is the ultimate reality (their presupposition), in this sense, man is "god". Of course the assumption of man as ultimate,is a false god notion, further it is a misplaced trust, and therefore a kind of faith, an unregenerate kind of faith, which is also a pseudo faith. The Bible speaks of idol worshipers, of idolatry, etc. and the allegiance and reverence for false gods, comes from an unregenerate faith. Surely you do not deny that people of false faiths like Islam, Mormonism, etc. do not have a kind of faith?!?!

What makes regenerate faith to differ from unregenerate faith? GOD! Living faith is a gift from God, and Christ is the author and finisher of it! According to the Scriptures, "without faith it is impossible to please God". Dead faith cannot please God. In Scripture there is clearly a distinction between unregenerate faith (which is not faith in the true and living sense) and regenerate faith (true faith). So, none are capable of pleasing God until God first creates the faith to please Him! The dead faith is resurrected in the new birth, in which all things become new.

Thanks. So you do agree with the statement then?

 

[Hammster]

If faith is a gift from God exclusively to the elect, and not everyone is elect, then there are some people that have no access to salvation.

I want to ask, if I may, if the Calvinists here on CF agree with this statement?

What do you mean by "no access"?

 

[harrisrose77]

But NOT just to the ELECT!!!
The "'Elect' is the 'Chosen' Jewish Remnant!!!

12 were 'CHOSEN'. But many are called. The 12 were ALL Jewish. (The original Root)

 

[janxharris]

But NOT just to the ELECT!!!
The "'Elect' is the 'Chosen' Jewish Remnant!!!

12 were 'CHOSEN'. But many are called. The 12 were ALL Jewish. (The original Root)

Could you explain please?

 

[TannarDarr]

So let's get down to the issue.

Everyone has a worldview, and places their trust in a network of basic and fundamental presuppositions. Secular humanists for example, place their trust in man, man is the ultimate reality (their presupposition), in this sense, man is "god". Of course the assumption of man as ultimate,is a false god notion, further it is a misplaced trust, and therefore a kind of faith, an unregenerate kind of faith, which is also a pseudo faith. The Bible speaks of idol worshipers, of idolatry, etc. and the allegiance and reverence for false gods, comes from an unregenerate faith. Surely you do not deny that people of false faiths like Islam, Mormonism, etc. do not have a kind of faith?!?!

What makes regenerate faith to differ from unregenerate faith? GOD! Living faith is a gift from God, and Christ is the author and finisher of it! According to the Scriptures, "without faith it is impossible to please God". Dead faith cannot please God. In Scripture there is clearly a distinction between unregenerate faith (which is not faith in the true and living sense) and regenerate faith (true faith). So, none are capable of pleasing God until God first creates the faith to please Him! The dead faith is resurrected in the new birth, in which all things become new.

What there isn't, in scripture, is a place where you have a conclusive reason to assume that no decision you can make on earth will affect your "eternal fate" *(which was SO NOT THE POINT of the Christ)

God gave a life for a reason. Every life has a reason. God didn't put men on earth who would not be the elect, just so Calvin could sit on a stump and preach he's higher and mightier.

The life has to be lived.

In that life you have decisions you have to make.

Whether GOD MADE THE SAVED and the unsaved deliberately or not, whoever is INSIDE THE LIFE still has to live it.

So, ALL a heavy calvinist does, is get smug, there is no redeeming value to it at all. (this is in general, I don't know you or if it applies to you.)

It's a conversation that does nothing but create factions and divisions, and Paul shows that to be an act of the flesh, not the spirit.

 

[janxharris]

What do you mean by "no access"?

If faith is given exclusively to the the elect then it is not given to the non-elect. Since faith is the sine qua non of salvation then the non-elect have no access.

I thought you had already agreed to the motion?

Your response was:

'And?'

Grace and mercy are given freely by the giver. It's not obligated. And just because they are given to one undeserving person, it doesn't mean it's not fair if they aren't given to all.

 

[harrisrose77]

What there isn't, in scripture, is a place where you have a conclusive reason to assume that no decision you can make on earth will affect your "eternal fate" *(which was SO NOT THE POINT of the Christ)

God gave a life for a reason. Every life has a reason. God didn't put men on earth who would not be the elect, just so Calvin could sit on a stump and preach he's higher and mightier.

The life has to be lived.

In that life you have decisions you have to make.

Whether GOD MADE THE SAVED and the unsaved deliberately or not, whoever is INSIDE THE LIFE still has to live it.

So, ALL a heavy calvinist does, is get smug, there is no redeeming value to it at all. (this is in general, I don't know you or if it applies to you.)

It's a conversation that does nothing but create factions and divisions, and Paul shows that to be an act of the flesh, not the spirit.

Oh, you are soooooo right.
Smug and hard. All between the ears, and pumped up pride.

 

[psalms 91]

The bible says we are all given a measure of faith, what we do or dont do with it is up to us, it is called free will, freedom to choose God and life or not. Because God foreknows our choices He already knows who will be saved and who wont but yet He gives us every opportunity to choose Him. It is a shame that so many do not choose Him but it is not because God has wothheld anything from them. If Judas would have changed his mind he would have been saved but God already knew he wouldnt.

 

[harrisrose77]

Could you explain please?

Are you kidding?
Besides, it will only sit on the eyes and fall straight off when you glance at the next view.
In love.
X
I'd much rather live my faith, thanks.

 

[hedrick]

If faith is a gift from God exclusively to the elect, and not everyone is elect, then there are some people that have no access to salvation.

I want to ask, if I may, if the Calvinists here on CF agree with this statement?

Someone asked what you mean by access. It's not an idle question. Calvinists would say that the non-elect have just as much access to salvation as the elect. Our problem isn't lack of access but lack of will.

 

[janxharris]

Someone asked what you mean by access. It's not an idle question. Calvinists would say that the non-elect have just as much access to salvation as the elect. Our problem isn't lack of access but lack of will.

It would seem that we all have a degree of unwillingness, but if one says that faith is a gift given only to the unconditionally elect, then how what of the non-elect.

The elect aren't willing; the non-elect aren't willing. God gifts faith to the elect and they are willing and are saved. God will not gift faith to the non-elect.

What of the non-elect's access?

Am I missing something?

 

[Hammster]

If faith is given exclusively to the the elect then it is not given to the non-elect. Since faith is the sine qua non of salvation then the non-elect have no access.

I thought you had already agreed to the motion?

Your response was:

Repeating a statement isn't an answer to a question of clarification.

What do you mean by "no access"?

 

[Hammster]

It would seem that we all have a degree of unwillingness, but if one says that faith is a gift given only to the unconditionally elect, then how what of the non-elect.

The elect aren't willing; the non-elect aren't willing. God gifts faith to the elect and they are willing and are saved. God will not gift faith to the non-elect.

What of the non-elect's access?

Am I missing something?

Still wanting to know what you mean by no access.

 

[janxharris]

Repeating a statement isn't an answer to a question of clarification.

What do you mean by "no access"?

I have already explained it.

 

[Hammster]

I have already explained it.

Where?

 

[harrisrose77]

It would seem that we all have a degree of unwillingness, but if one says that faith is a gift given only to the unconditionally elect, then how what of the non-elect.

The elect aren't willing; the non-elect aren't willing. God gifts faith to the elect and they are willing and are saved. God will not gift faith to the non-elect.

What of the non-elect's access?

Am I missing something?

YES! You don't know who the 'Elect' are! black glasses, get it?

 

[Ask Seek Knock]

Repeating a statement isn't an answer to a question of clarification.

What do you mean by "no access"?

What kind of access do those who God foreordained to eternal death have? Are they able to overcome what God has foreordained?

 

[Hammster]

What kind of access do those who God foreordained to eternal death have? Are they able to overcome what God has foreordained?

I'm still wanting to know what's meant by "access".