If faith is a gift from God...

[BBAS 64]

Yes indeed, as a Molinist, I would certainly agree with your statement. In post #461 you said, "Some insist that faith is the gift at Ephesians 2:8, but it’s actually salvation that is the gift". Agreed again, the Greek construction of Ephesians 2:8-9 appears to be 'cut and dried'.

William Lane Craig breaks down the Greek construction of these verses and addresses the critical question, "Is Faith A Gift From God or Something We Produce?" in the following video < Is Faith A Gift From God or Something We Produce? | Reasonable Faith > Is Faith A Gift From God or Something We Produce? | Reasonable Faith

Excerpts from Bill Craig's video :

"You might say, but didn’t we read in Ephesians 2:8-9 that faith is a gift of God, not something that we can produce. Look at Ephesians 2:8-9 again. Paul says, “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God— not because of works, lest any man should boast.” Doesn’t this show that faith is simply God’s gift to you and not something that you do on your own? I think that is incorrect and I think demonstrably so.

Let me ask those of you who are our vigilant Logos software users to tell us what is the gender of the word for “faith” that is used in verse 8? I should mention here that in Greek, as in modern day German, every noun has a gender. There are three genders – masculine, feminine, and neuter. It is the same in Greek. Now, what is the gender of the word pistis or faith? Feminine. So it is feminine gender for pistis or faith. What is the gender of the pronoun in verse 8 “this.” Neuter! Touto is the word. It is neuter. So the antecedent of “this” is not the word “faith.” You would have to have a feminine pronoun in order to refer to “faith.” Rather, what the word “this” refers to is the whole preceding clause, namely, salvation by grace through faith. That is not your own doing. This is the gift of God. This is the way God has elected to set it up; he is going to save by his grace everyone who has faith in Christ. That is not your own doing. But it does not teach that saving faith is the gift of God. That is grammatically prohibited.

In fact, I want to say here something about the way our Reformed brethren treat the idea of faith. For many of them they think that if I exercise faith in Christ, if I respond to God’s grace by receiving it through faith, that this is somehow my meriting or winning salvation. It is something I do; I have faith and so I have somehow done some meritorious work which is excluded of course by Paul because salvation is by grace not by meritorious works. But in so saying I think they have completely misunderstood Paul. When you read Paul, he always opposes faith to works. For Paul, faith is the antithesis of works. He does not think that placing your faith in Christ is a work much less a meritorious work. Paul always contrasts faith and works. So, in receiving Christ by faith in acceding to God’s grace, you are not doing anything meritorious to save yourself. You are simply yielding, as it were, to the grace of God and allowing it to do its saving work and justifying work in your life. That is not in any sense a meritorious work."

Good Day. RB

Never would have nor do I consider WLC a authority on Greek.


He seems to be parroting Roberson to some extent:


T.A Roberson and Eph 2:8



A.T. Robertson, the great American Greek scholar, specifically denied

Any connection between touto and faith on the basis of the difference in genders in his Word Pictures in the New Testament. His comments, however, are derived more from theology than grammar, as has been pointed out.

As William Hendrikson rightly observed: That offered by A. T. Robertson. Commenting on this passage in his Word Pictures in the New Testament, Vol. IV, p. 525, he states, Grace is God's part, faith ours. He adds that since in the original the demonstrative this (and this not of yourselves) is neuter and does not correspond with the gender of the word faith, which is feminine. It does not refer to the latter but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Even more clearly in Gram. N.T., p. 704, he states categorically, In Eph. 2:8 . . . there is no reference to dia; pivstew" [through faith] in tou'to [this], but rather to the idea of salvation in the clause before.

Without any hesitancy I answer, Robertson, to whom the entire world of New Testament scholarship is heavily indebted, does not express himself felicitously in this instance. This is true first because in a context in which the apostle places such tremendous stress on the fact that from start to finish man owes his salvation to God, to him alone, it would have been very strange, indeed, for him to say, Grace is God's part, faith ours. True though it be that both the responsibility of believing and also its activity are ours, for God does not believe for us, nevertheless, in the present context (verses 5-10) one rather expects emphasis on the fact that both in its initiation and in its continuation faith is entirely dependent on God, and so is our complete salvation.

Also, Robertson, a grammarian famous in his field, knew that in the original the demonstrative (this), though neuter, by no means always corresponds in gender with its antecedent. That he knew this is shown by the fact that on the indicated page of his Grammar (p.704) he points out that in general the demonstrative agrees with its substantive in gender and number. When he says in general, he must mean, not always but most of the time.

Hence, he should have considered more seriously the possibility that, in view of the context, the exception to the rule, an exception by no means rare, applies here. He should have made allowance for it. Finally, he should have justified the departure from the rule that unless there is a compelling reason to do otherwise the antecedent should be looked for in the immediate vicinity of the pronoun or adjective that refers to it.


I think most premiere Greek NT Scholars would agree with Hendrikson's assessment that more should have been considered by Robertson in this matter.

Further in depth study- https://faithconnector.s3.amazonaws.com/chafer/files/v12n2_4is_faith_a_gift_from_god_according.pdf

In Him,

Bill

 

[FredVB]

It's true that we do, but I'm not quite with you on the question of him not justly judging without our choosing. He owns us and can justly do as he chooses with us. He has that right.

But you may be right, in that, if we had no choice, then it would be a mistake to refer to judgement as to "right" and "wrong". It would be more like appropriate vs mistake, or something. On the other hand, "morality" is a direct reference to 'lining up with God', not to 'right and wrong' in themselves, except as they too are a reference to 'lining up with God'. Aaaargh! The words turn on themselves when you try to go outside the way things actually are.

I am not quite with dismissing that it is with God's goodness there is justice to us with choice we make that there would not be without any choice we have, and not only that there is justice because God is God. God's goodness is always there, not whims without God's goodness.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I am not quite with dismissing that it is with God's goodness there is justice to us with choice we make that there would not be without any choice we have, and not only that there is justice because God is God. God's goodness is always there, not whims without God's goodness.

I can go with that. But our reasoning WHY is not definitive of God nor of his justice.

 

[FredVB]

I can go with that. But our reasoning WHY is not definitive of God nor of his justice.

Our sense of goodness does not define God's goodness, but it is from God's goodness, that there is goodness defined in our world. So what we can see of fairness and goodness is from that of God, who really is with the real fairness and justice. Not that we want that on us. But it comes from God and those in Christ who came for that have Christ who bore that for all of them, and any have opportunity to come to that, yes, even where they did not hear of Christ, they have opportunities and God will provide what is essential for them to know, to repent and respond in faith, which will count. The opportunity will be there, as God is not willing that any perish but they should come to repentance. Many turn from any of that which is from God's grace, while it can be promoted for more with those who bring the gospel to them, as we should do sharing it with others.