If everyone's saved, what's the point of being a Christian?

[Andrewn]

I guess it's that human nature is such that, in general, if we win a Ferrari we'd be happy but if we took it out for our first drive and saw that everyone else was also driving a Ferrari because they had also won one, we'd be less happy.

Excellent point.

Jealousy is a dark emotion: feeling angry or unhappy because you wish you had something that somebody else has. You want your Ferrari to be better than theirs or that they crash theirs.

One would expect Christians to be devoid of jealousy and satisfied with their position in Christ, encouraging everyone to have the same or better. Unfortunately, this is not always the case. Some people may not share our joy in a new achievement.

The religious leaders crucified Christ out of jealousy for his closeness to God, miracles, and popularity among people.

We confine ourselves in an emotional hell when we feel jealousy.

 

[Berserk]

In the Parable of the Prodigal Son the younger son has demanded and squandered his portion of the Father's inheritance (Luke 15:12-14) and is therefore no longer entitled to inherit what remains of his Father's possessions. Thus, the Father reassures his bitter elder son, "All that is mine is yours (15:31)."
Yet more love is DEMONSTRATED for the wayward younger son who is no longer an heir than for the elder son. Might this not provide hope for sinners whom various NT texts insist "will not inherit the kingdom of God?" The NT universalist texts open the door to the possibility that sinners won't get what the "heirs" get when they die, but may ultimately be welcomed into the kingdom of God by the Father by being retrieved from Hades or Purgatory.

 

[Der Alte]

...

In the Parable of the Prodigal Son the younger son has demanded and squandered his portion of the Father's inheritance (Luke 15:12-14) and is therefore no longer entitled to inherit what remains of his Father's possessions. Thus, the Father reassures his bitter elder son, "All that is mine is yours (15:31)."
Yet more love is DEMONSTRATED for the wayward younger son who is no longer an heir than for the elder son. Might this not provide hope for sinners whom various NT texts insist "will not inherit the kingdom of God?" The NT universalist texts open the door to the possibility that sinners won't get what the "heirs" get when they die, but may ultimately be welcomed into the kingdom of God by the Father by being retrieved from Hades or Purgatory.

The prodigal son returned on his own from the foreign country that is in no way even similar to someone in the LOF being retrieved [by the father] from Hades or Purgatory.

 

[NBB]

that everyone gets saved is totally anti biblical, in the old and new testament.

 

[bbbbbbb]

that everyone gets saved is totally anti biblical, in the old and new testament.

True!

 

[Der Alte]

that everyone gets saved is totally anti biblical, in the old and new testament.

True!

Jesus never said everyone will enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
The New International Version (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2011), Mt 7:21–23.​

But Jesus did say, "Not everyone will enter the kingdom of heaven." Then on judgement day many, not a few, will say to Him, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?" But Jesus will say to those many, "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!"

 

[FineLinen]

that everyone gets saved is totally anti biblical, in the old and new testament.

The Master of reconciliation must be wrong?

I will draw, drag off in power, impel ALL unto Me.

 

[FineLinen]

The Master of reconciliation must be wrong?

I will draw, drag off in power, impel ALL unto Me.

 

[FineLinen]

The Master of reconciliation must be wrong?

I will draw, drag off in power, impel ALL unto Me.

There are 6 passages of Canon using the koine helkō. In each instance that which is drawn comes.

 

[NBB]

The Master of reconciliation must be wrong?

I will draw, drag off in power, impel ALL unto Me.

That verse doesn't cancel the others ones that say people can be lost, if you take that verse that way you need to ignore whole other sections because of your interpretation.

 

[Hmm]

That verse doesn't cancel the others ones that say people can be lost, if you take that verse that way you need to ignore whole other sections because of your interpretation.

According to your logic then, the verses that say (in your interpretation of them) that people can be lost forever don't cancel the ones that say they aren't.

So why should we favour the verses that you prefer, or rather your interpretation of what these verses mean, over other verses and interpretations that fit much better with the views of the early church and with common moral sense (i.e that torture is wrong and so God doesn't torture people. It's not rocket science)?

 

[NBB]

According to your logic then, the verses that say (in your interpretation of them) that people can be lost forever don't cancel the ones that say they aren't.

So why should we favour the verses that you prefer, or rather your interpretation of what these verses mean, over other verses and interpretations that fit much better with the views of the early church and with common moral sense (i.e that torture is wrong and so God doesn't torture people. It's not rocket science)?

Because the other verses are more clear? in the old and new testament one theme is clear people need to repent to live forever.

 

[Hmm]

Because the other verses are more clear?

More clear to you, yes. But is everything that is clear to you necessarily true? Have you never changed your mind over something?

 

[NBB]

More clear to you, yes. But is everything that is clear to you necessarily true? Have you nver changed your mind over something? Have you ever been wrong over anything?

The bible is clear we need to repent. And is not only clear 'to me' like i am alone in this.

 

[Hmm]

The bible is clear we need to repent. And is not only clear 'to me' like i am alone in this.

Yes, and we all agree with that, weary sigh. It's the bit you add on afterwards "or else you will burn in hell forever" that's not so clear. If it is to you though, then great. I'm very happy for you

 

[NBB]

Yes, and we all agree with that, weary sigh. It's the bit you add on afterwards "or else you will burn in hell forever" that's not so clear. If it is to you though, then great. I'm very happy for you

What you interpret by 'lost'... then, 'the wicked shall be destroyed', 'eternal damnation' and all that, i don't know if people are going to burn forever like this, but this sounds pretty bad and people need to avoid it at all costs, and we should not encourage people to think all will be saved and patting them in the back when the are going the wrong way.

 

[Der Alte]

...

"The Master of reconciliation must be wrong?

"I will draw, drag off in power, impel ALL unto Me."​

There are 6 passages of Canon using the koine helkō. In each instance that which is drawn comes

Faulty interpretation as usual. And in all those 6 verses the subject is an inanimate object. Are those who Jesus "draws" to Himself inanimate objects or are they rational human beings with the ability to choose? To choose Jesus or to reject Him. In your opinion does Jesus forcibly drag people to Himself, who have deliberately turned their backs on Him?
The same Jesus you claim will forcibly draw the unwilling to Himself said in Matt 7:21-23 "Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven. Many will say to me [Jesus] "We have done many wonderful works in you name." But Jesus will say to those many, not a few, "Depart from me. You workers of iniquity, I never knew you." When Jesus says "never" He means "never" NOT someday by and by.

 

[FineLinen]

That verse doesn't cancel the others ones that say people can be lost, if you take that verse that way you need to ignore whole other sections because of your interpretation.

There is no need to ignore any of our LORD'S assurances! The entire scope is one unified expression of great hope.

Everything is lost until found.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

There is no need to ignore any of our LORD'S assurances! The entire scope is one unified expression of great hope.

Everything is lost until found.

And things must be destroyed to be renewed.

Lest a grain of wheat fall to the ground...

 

[Shrewd Manager]

The prodigal son returned on his own from the foreign country that is in no way even similar to someone in the LOF being retrieved [by the father] from Hades or Purgatory.

The Prodigal Son realised it's hard to soar with the eagles when being stifled by the pigs, der Alte.