If Christ existed before earthly birth, did He not interact with humans?

[LoveofTruth]

One of the most profound holes I find in conservative Christianity is the lack of wonder at what Jesus Christ was doing before His physical birth as Jesus of Nazarene. Many, too many to list, biblical passages clearly show that Christ existed in some form since the beginning of time, and for as long as Earth has existed.

Now yes, the Bible does not provide a detailed list of what Jesus was doing for all those thousands and thousands of years of human history. It talks more of His presence in the heavenly realm. However, I find it very hard to imagine that in all that time, He never interacted in one form of another with mankind. Or at the very least inspired people - and possibly certain beliefs. As in, could it not be possible that at least some, not all, but at least some of the religions and beliefs before Christianity could have been touched by Christ in some form or another? Not at all saying any were perfect or pure, but some aspects of them could have been a shadow, or a hint, of the real truth. Comparing and analyzing different religions certainly shows some, keyword some, striking similarities.

I find it hard to believe that whatever Christ was doing in heaven, when it comes specifically to his earthly involvement, he was sitting on the sidelines all the way until his birth in Bethlehem.

Of course, this is very controversial, because even the hint that there could be truth outside of what is commonly known as Christianity opens up a big Pandora's box that does not sit well with conservatism.

yes Christ existed before he came in the flesh .John speaks of this in John 1:9 etc he spoke of Jesus being the true light that lighters every man that comets into the world he was in the world and they knew him not then the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

If you understand what Jesus said about Himself, namely...

"I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me.",

...then you can understand how any physical appearance of the Lord God in the Old Testament..... everything from God in the Garden of Eden, to the Voice in the Burning Bush, to the 4th man in the Furnace with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.... every physical appearance of God to men...was literally Jesus Christ.

This is what it means when the Scripture says "No man can see God and live." and "No one has ever seen God".

No one has seen the Father.

And Jesus' saying can still be true, saying "If you've seen Me, you've seen the Father. I and the Father are One."

Only in Revelations do we get the most DETAIL of the Lamb (Jesus) and the Majesty (the Father?).

But then again, Isaiah says Jesus will be called "Everlasting Father".... so it is not wrong in any way to UNIFY Jesus and the Father. In fact, it's NECESSARY to be a true believer in God!

Now what does "Son of God" and "Son of Man" mean?

"Son of Man" was primarily a term for the Messiah (Jesus) in prophecy and used extensively by Jesus about Himself to draw attention to Himself as the Savior while still expressing to us His humility and kindness in becoming like us "Sons of Men". He used the term "Son of Man" about Himself so that we could relate to Him, in His humility, until the right time the Father would reveal Jesus' Glory, the same Glory as His Father.

"Son of God" was a term used by a demon, by the Pharisees, and by John the Beloved, etc. This term accentuates Jesus' divine nature, being the literal "offspring" of the Father, or "coming out from God". The term "Son of God" is used mainly by Believers to communicate the Truth they've come to know, namely Jesus as God Himself. It is a name that exemplifies Jesus as not just another human, but God in Human flesh. As far as I can recall, Jesus did not use this term about Himself because He was waiting for the right time for His Glory to be revealed by the Father. Remember, Jesus did not come to exalt Himself, but to exalt His Father, and therefore the Father exalted Jesus, giving Him the greatest Name and Position, though Jesus was/is/will always be God, with the same Glory as the Father.


Please share any Scriptures that contradict this explanation...

 

[bsd058]

John 12:37-41 - But though He had performed so many signs before them, yet they were not believing in Him. This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet which he spoke: “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT? AND TO WHOM HAS THE ARM OF THE LORD BEEN REVEALED?” For this reason they could not believe, for Isaiah said again, “HE HAS BLINDED THEIR EYES AND HE HARDENED THEIR HEART, SO THAT THEY WOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND PERCEIVE WITH THEIR HEART, AND BE CONVERTED AND I HEAL THEM.” These things Isaiah said because he saw His glory, and he spoke of Him.

Isaiah 6 - In the year of King Uzziah’s death I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple. Seraphim stood above Him, each having six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew.
And one called out to another and said,
“Holy, Holy, Holy, is the LORD of hosts,
The whole earth is full of His glory.”
And the foundations of the thresholds trembled at the voice of him who called out, while the temple was filling with smoke.
Then I said,
“Woe is me, for I am ruined!
Because I am a man of unclean lips,
And I live among a people of unclean lips;
For my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.”
Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a burning coal in his hand, which he had taken from the altar with tongs. He touched my mouth with it and said, “Behold, this has touched your lips; and your iniquity is taken away and your sin is forgiven.”
Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?” Then I said, “Here am I. Send me!”
He said, “Go, and tell this people:
‘Keep on listening, but do not perceive;
Keep on looking, but do not understand.’
“Render the hearts of this people insensitive,
Their ears dull,
And their eyes dim,
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
Hear with their ears,
Understand with their hearts,
And return and be healed.”
Then I said, “Lord, how long?” And He answered,
“Until cities are devastated and without inhabitant,
Houses are without people
And the land is utterly desolate,
“The LORD has removed men far away,
And the forsaken places are many in the midst of the land.
“Yet there will be a tenth portion in it,
And it will again be subject to burning,
Like a terebinth or an oak
Whose stump remains when it is felled.
The holy seed is its stump.”

So, Isaiah saw our Lord Jesus, on his throne. Jesus even spoke to him.

 

[St_Worm2]

My only issue is as i'm newly awakened. But, If Jesus is God and not begotten of him i.e a part of the heavenly father, then why did the devil dare even bother trying to tempt the lord and savior if he's god? And why did Jesus Reference himself as being of his father and making the distinction of a difference? There would be no need for such a distinction, nor would there be such as the Heavenly Father is Truth.

Hi Mathew 16;26, WELCOME TO CF .. ... and more importantly (since I see you are a new Christian), WELCOME TO THE FAMILY

The doctrine of the Trinity is perhaps the most difficult thing to wrap your mind around in the Christian faith, but the Bible makes it clear that it is the truth, One God existing as three Persons (with each Member of the Godhead being 100% God Himself, the Son "begotten" (not made), the Spirit, "proceeding").

Just to be clear, the doctrine of the Trinity is something we refer to as a "mystery" (because while we believe it is true, we are not capable of explaining it). The historic formulation of the Trinity doctrine, which is derived from the Latin word trinitas, meaning “threeness”, seeks to circumscribe/define and safeguard this mystery (not explain it, because that is beyond us .. Packer, J. I.).

That's about all I have time for right now, but I'll leave you with this, be patient. Understanding the doctrines of both the Trinity and of the dual nature of Christ is something that you will eventually get a handle on, because they are Biblical, but it won't happen overnight

It's also important to take as much time as you need to truly understand what the church teaches, because there are many who teach something similar, like modalism or partialism, for instance, but these are false doctrines because they teach something about the Godhead that the Bible does not.

Here's a 3+ minute video clip from the Lutheran Satire folks that is really funny, but you will actually hear a lot of the Trinity doctrine properly taught, and you'll begin to hear and understand some of the ways it is improperly taught as well, so enjoy, but listen closely

Yours in Christ,
David

 

[St_Worm2]

Hi again @Mathew 16;26, it would also be helpful for you to check out three of the historic creeds of the church here concerning both the Trinity and the dual nature of Christ, The Nicene Creed, the Athanasian Creed, and the Definition or Symbol of Chalcedon.

 

[Jerry F. Sebastian]

One of the most profound holes I find in conservative Christianity is the lack of wonder at what Jesus Christ was doing before His physical birth as Jesus of Nazarene. Many, too many to list, biblical passages clearly show that Christ existed in some form since the beginning of time, and for as long as Earth has existed.

Now yes, the Bible does not provide a detailed list of what Jesus was doing for all those thousands and thousands of years of human history. It talks more of His presence in the heavenly realm. However, I find it very hard to imagine that in all that time, He never interacted in one form of another with mankind. Or at the very least inspired people - and possibly certain beliefs. As in, could it not be possible that at least some, not all, but at least some of the religions and beliefs before Christianity could have been touched by Christ in some form or another? Not at all saying any were perfect or pure, but some aspects of them could have been a shadow, or a hint, of the real truth. Comparing and analyzing different religions certainly shows some, keyword some, striking similarities.

I find it hard to believe that whatever Christ was doing in heaven, when it comes specifically to his earthly involvement, he was sitting on the sidelines all the way until his birth in Bethlehem.

Of course, this is very controversial, because even the hint that there could be truth outside of what is commonly known as Christianity opens up a big Pandora's box that does not sit well with conservatism.

This is a question of Christology and Ontology. You must first understand the nature of Christ's being. When you do, your question will be answered.

 

[St_Worm2]

Hi Jerry, WELCOME TO CF .. I'm glad you found us

Yours in Christ,
David

 

[sparow]

Mark in his gospel clearly thought that Jesus became "Son of God" at his baptism, Matthew and Luke thought it was at conception or birth while John thought it was from eternity. We must always remember that the Gospels themselves are an interpretation and that interpretation has been interpreted and expanded by theologians ever since.

I am surprised; is there any dispute that the God who took on human form in Jesus, was the word who has always communicated with men?

 

[JackRT]

I am surprised; is there any dispute that the God who took on human form in Jesus, was the word who has always communicated with men?

Yes there is.

 

[sparow]

Yes there is.

I slightly recall this being indirectly addressed on an earlier thread; yet I do not recall ever discussing this directly so I wonder why I have an opinion on it.

When Jesus said, "Before Abraham was I AM", Jesus claimed to be the I AM of the OT.

 

[JackRT]

I slightly recall this being indirectly addressed on an earlier thread; yet I do not recall ever discussing this directly so I wonder why I have an opinion on it.

When Jesus said, "Before Abraham was I AM", Jesus claimed to be the I AM of the OT.

The question in my mind is whether those are the actual words of Jesus or the words of an evangelist writing four or five or six decades later. An increasing number of Christians have the same question.

 

[sparow]

The question in my mind is whether those are the actual words of Jesus or the words of an evangelist writing four or five or six decades later. An increasing number of Christians have the same question.

I expect there is considerable editing in scripture which is one reason the scriptures should not be used as an infallible legal document. I get very nervous when there is only one reference to support a concept.

These scriptures support Jesus being the OT I AM:

Revelation 1:8 (ASV)
8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.

Hebrews 13:8 (NKJV)
8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Micah 5:2 (RSV)
2 But you, O Bethlehem Eph'rathah, who are little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose origin is from of old, from ancient days.

Isaiah 9:6 (NKJV)
6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Exodus 3:14 (NKJV)
14 And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And He said, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.' "


If one understands that Jesus is the I AM then the Law is not abrogated and there is only one covenant which was renewed often.

 

[AV1611VET]

The question in my mind is whether those are the actual words of Jesus or the words of an evangelist writing four or five or six decades later.

You mean like Moses quoting Adam 2600 years later?

 

[Ronald]

As an after thought; some of the confusion or misunderstanding may arise from this: At no time nor place in the 'pre-birth era' did the Second Person of the God Head - the Christ - appear and announce: "Hi! I'm God and I'll be born in Bethlehem to a rather poor Jewish couple in about XXX years. Keep watching!" and then disappear.

He did not make it too obvious or too glitzy.

I guess you are unable to interpret scripture! Jesus said, "I am He", the one who has been with you all along. This is why they call Him the Great "I AM". You must be born again and filled with the Holy Spirit to discern scripture properly. He also wrestled with Jacob btw.

 

[Ronald]

My only issue is as i'm newly awakened. But, If Jesus is God and not begotten of him i.e a part of the heavenly father, then why did the devil dare even bother trying to tempt the lord and savior if he's god? And why did Jesus Reference himself as being of his father and making the distinction of a difference? There would be no need for such a distinction, nor would there be such as the Heavenly Father is Truth.

Sorry for the delay, been busy. Jesus was the only begotten Son of God the Father(meaning his humanity not his deity). He emptied himself into Mary's womb and grew up as a normal child would into a man but without sin. Only God could be without sin. As a man, He submitted to His Father, put aside His glory, power and did not purpose for man to grasp this. He came as a humble servant. Only God can take away the sins of the world, a man, or even angel could not. So he suffered as a man, was tempted by Satan as a man. He actually told Satan not to tempt the Lord Thy God - which is who Satan was tempting. He submitted and was obedient, and showed us how. On the mount of transfiguration, the disciples saw His glory. And after His death, He was once again glorified as He was prior to His birth. If He was only a man, not God, would He claim that He was all those I Am's stated in John? No, He would say the Father is the bread, the door, the good shepherd, etc.

 

[St_Worm2]

Jesus was the only begotten Son of God the Father(meaning his humanity not his deity). He emptied himself into Mary's womb....

Hi Ronald, I agree with most of what you've said I think, but I wonder if you might elaborate a bit on two points from the above.

1) Why do you believe that Jesus, God the Son, was only begotten in regard to His humanity? I don't believe that this is what the church has historically taught, rather, that He was eternally "begotten", not "made". See the historic creeds below:

Nicene Creed
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.

Who, for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.

And I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Athanasian Creed (excerpts)
The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ

The Symbol of Chalcedon
We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach men to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [coessential] with us according to the manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ, as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning him, and the Lord Jesus Christ himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us.
​

2) What does "He emptied Himself into Mary's womb" mean? What was He doing there?

Thanks!

Yours and His,
David

​

 

[Ronald]

Hi Ronald, I agree with most of what you've said I think, but I wonder if you might elaborate a bit on two points from the above.

1) Why do you believe that Jesus, God the Son, was only begotten in regard to His humanity? I don't believe that this is what the church has historically taught, rather, that He was eternally "begotten", not "made". See the historic creeds below:

Nicene Creed
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.

Who, for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.

And I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Athanasian Creed (excerpts)
The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ

The Symbol of Chalcedon
We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach men to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [coessential] with us according to the manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ, as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning him, and the Lord Jesus Christ himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us.
​

2) What does "He emptied Himself into Mary's womb" mean? What was He doing there?

Thanks!

Yours and His,
David

​

1. Because the Father said "on this day" when He was begotten. Jesus existed before there were days. He is the one who created days. (Acts 13:33; Hebrews 1:5) Begotten means of the same nature. Man begets man, but Jesus was NOT conceived by a man and a woman, therefore the baby Jesus was the only begotten Son of God, God became flesh and dwelt among us. The Spiritual nature of Jesus was never created (begotten). Only the physical part of Jesus was. And btw, He was also the first born of the dead (begotten), and we were also born again from above.
Listen, where in the Bible does it say "begotten before all worlds" or "begotten before all ages"? It doesn't and frankly I'd have to disagree with some of the Nicene Creed.
2. What does it mean that Jesus “emptied himself”? (Phil.2:6-9) (derived from Phil. 2:7)

 

[AJTruth]

Yahwey The Father And Yahwey The Son

GOD CANT BE SEEN GOD IS SEEN

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

This will explain, how no one can see God & live. Yet, many see Him and do live.

THREE SCRIPTURE THAT ARE CLEAR. NO HUMAN CAN SEE/STAND IN THE FATHERS PRESENTS:
John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, but the only is at the Father's side, has made him known
(Only the Son has seen the Father)

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
(No man has seen the Father. Only the Son who is of the Father, has seen the Father)

1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: Amen.
(The Son is the only immortal being within our universe. That can dwell in the Fathers light. No mortal can approach, see or stand in the Father's presents)

SCRIPTURES WHERE MAN SAW GOD. THEY DID NOT SEE GOD THE FATHER. THEY SAW GOD THE SON.

Genesis 14: Abram see's & has communion with Melchizedek.

Hebrews 7:3 Melchizdedek is: Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God;
(Abraham see & communions with God the Son)

Abraham see's God in Gen 12:7, 17:1, & 18:1 Here he see's God and in verse 5 Abraham eats with God. Abraham see's God & lives

Exodus 6:3 Jehovah tells Moses: He appeared to Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob.
(Jehovah is the Son, NOT THE FATHER)

Gen 32:24-30 Jacob see's God face to face & wrestles with Him...Jacob see's God & lives
(Jacob see & wrestles with the God the Son, NOT THE FATHER)

Gen 35:9 Jacob see's God. verse 11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty...Jacob see's God & lives
(God Almighty is the Son. NOT THE FATHER)

Genesis 48:3 Jacob tells Joseph he saw God
(No man can see the Father. He saw God the Son)

Judges 6:22 & 23 Gideon see's the LORD face to face and talks to Him and lives.

Judges 13:22 Samson's parents see God and live

Acts 7:2 confirms, Abraham saw God and lived

HERE IT IS:
1 Cor 8:
6 There is but one God, the Father, """of whom are all things""", and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, """by whom are all things""", and we by him.

(8 (A) To us there is but one God, the Yahweh/Father, of whom are all things: There is but one eternal First Cause and fountain of existence)

(8 (B) By whom are all things: Jehovah=Yahweh=God the Son, the Eternal Word or Reason of the Father. The Son is the Agent by Whom the Father works in our creation, preservation, redemption, regeneration of all things within our universe)

Zech 12:8-10 Identifies Jehovah=Yahweh with Jesus Christ
8) The LORD (Jehovah=Yahweh) defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; & he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; & the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them

9) it shall come to pass in that day, "I" will seek to destroy all the nationsthat come against Jerusalem

10) I will pour upon the house of David, & upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace & of supplications & they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, & they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, & shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his first born

(Ok, In verse 8 the LORD, (Jehovah=Yahweh), is speaking. In verses 9 & 10 the pronoun, "I", refers to the same LORD, or Jehovah=Yahweh "I" will seek to destroy & "I" will pout out upon the house of David

"""HERE"S THE KEY"""
Vs 10 they shall look upon me (Jehovah=Yahweh) whom they pierced & they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, & shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his first born
(Jehovah=Yahweh is God the Son)

Clearly, Jehovah=Yahweh is stating that it is HE the only begotten & the first born son of the Father, even Jesus Christ, that shall be pierced & mourned, for whom they shall be in bitterness
(Jehovah=Yahweh/Son=God the Son)

Yahweh/Son has Yahweh/Father's name. Ex 23:21 (D) "FOR MY NAME IS IN HIM" And with the name come's ALL POWER & AUTHORITY!

Before creation the pre-existing determinate counsel, Father-Son-Holy Spirit. Planned & executed the plan for our universe. The Son/Yahweh is the agent by whom the Father works in our universe & in the preservation of all things in this realm

After creation the Yahweh/Son rested from his work. After the finished the work of redemption Son/Jesus. He goes to Heaven and sits down next at the right hand of Yahweh/Father.

The Son Yahweh/Jesus is PREEMINENT is ALL things within our realm: Creation, Redemption, Resurrection, Mediation & Jugdment. Maranatha