If baptism is essential

[ydouxist]

Why did Paul say Christ didn't send him to baptize?

1Cr 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel,
and not with eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

 

[Starforsaken]

It isnt essential and its obvious that its not, just the churches way of making you a new member and giving you the *right* to eat christs blood and body... thats how I see it anyway.

 

[Iron Lion]

It isnt essential and its obvious that its not, just the churches way of making you a new member and giving you the *right* to eat christs blood and body... thats how I see it anyway.

its obvious its not??

what is with this place and everyone using there opinion rather than what Jesus and the bible taught.??

YES we must be batised.


John 3:5
Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

1 Pet. 3:21
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also–not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge[a] of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit

Acts 22:16
And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name

Romans 6:3-4
Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.


Colossians 2:11-12
In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature,[a] not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, 12having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

 

[Stinker]

Why did Paul say Christ didn't send him to baptize?

1Cr 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel,
and not with eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

"I thank thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. FOR CHRIST SENT ME NOT TO BAPTIZE, BUT TO PREACH THE GOSPEL:..." (1Cor.1:14-17)

Getting the message out took priority over baptizing the hundreds, and in one case thousands Acts 2:41, of repentant sinners in a day. To baptize all these people the Apostles had help from people such as those in Acts 6.

 

[FaithAlone]

OK here we go again even though no one will even listen.

John 3:5
Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

Such a misinterpretation. The water is not water baptism. Nicodemus asks "How can I crawl back into my mother and be born again?" He can't the flesh(water that breaks when a mother gives birth) is flesh and is the first birth. The second is Spirit and is the baptism of the Holy Spirit; the second and necessary birth.

1 Pet. 3:21
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also–not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge[a] of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Not the removal of dirt from the flesh! Not water baptism but a spiritual one that results in a clear conscious toward God!

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit

If you look to the original text repent is to all people everywhere. Be baptized is for believers only for(Eis meaning because of) the remission of sins

Acts 22:16
And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name

Do you call on His name when you're baptized in water? The reference from that scripture took me to Stephan's death when he cries aloud Jesus receive my spirit. Do you do that?

Romans 6:3-4
Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Baptized by the Holy Spirit. There is only one baptism that is necessary and that is of the Spirit. If the necessary one was the water then that would be the one baptism that Ephesians speaks of and it would cancel out the Holy Spirit baptism as being necessary.

Colossians 2:11-12In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature,[a] not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, 12having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

Once again spiritual baptism. If it's not done by hands then how in the world does water baptism save you?

It is by FAITH!

Can you please explain to me how you determine the difference between water and spiritual baptism in the Bible?

 

[Stinker]

Such a misinterpretation. The water is not water baptism. Nicodemus asks "How can I crawl back into my mother and be born again?" He can't the flesh(water that breaks when a mother gives birth) is flesh and is the first birth. The second is Spirit and is the baptism of the Holy Spirit; the second and necessary birth. (FaithAlone post #5 on Jn.3:5)


FaithAlone: If Jesus meant that if a man wasn't born of the flesh.....is it your understanding that there was another way that people came into being back then?

 

[western kentucky]

OK here we go again even though no one will even listen.


Such a misinterpretation. The water is not water baptism. Nicodemus asks "How can I crawl back into my mother and be born again?" He can't the flesh(water that breaks when a mother gives birth) is flesh and is the first birth. The second is Spirit and is the baptism of the Holy Spirit; the second and necessary birth.

John 3:5; From my understanding, the passage does not teach that the "water" is referring to a physical birth. In 3:4, Nicodemus thought that it was referring to a physical birth, but he was corrected. Everyone on this planet has been born; therefore, all who live automatically have the first point covered. How could this be a condition for salvation, when every person has this point covered?

Not the removal of dirt from the flesh! Not water baptism but a spiritual one that results in a clear conscious toward God!

1 Peter 3:20 - 21 says, "who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you - - not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience - - through the resurrection of Jesus Christ..."

It clearly says it, "...baptism now saves you..." Peter clarifies that the purpose of baptism is not to remove dirt from the flesh, "but an appeal to God for a good conscience - - through the resurrection of Jesus Christ..." How would a person appeal to God for a good conscience..."? Simply, when comparing the passage to Acts 2:38, one realizes that baptism is for the remission of sins; Doesn't that provide a clear conscience? "-- through the resurrection of Jesus Christ." Understanding that water baptism is symbolic of being baptized into Christ's death, and coming up from the water is symbolic of Christ's resurrection (Romans 6:1 -7) provides clarity on the verse.

If you look to the original text repent is to all people everywhere. Be baptized is for believers only for(Eis meaning because of) the remission of sins!

Acts 2:38: Peter said to them, "Repent and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will recieve the gift of Holy Spirit..."

Out of all the times that "EIS" is used in the New Testament, it is never once translated "because of"! There is another passage that (EIS) is used identically; you can be the translator:

Matthew 26:28 - ..."for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many (EIS) forgiveness of sins.

Also notice that in verse 37 the people were pierced to the heart because they realized they crucified the Son of God (verse 36). Was their realization and belief in Christ enough to save them? If so, then why does Peter command them to repent and be baptized?

Do you call on His name when you're baptized in water? The reference from that scripture took me to Stephan's death when he cries aloud Jesus receive my spirit. Do you do that?

Acts 22:16; You are trying to the verse to read something like, "Call on His name, sins removed, and then you are baptized. This idea does not harmonize with other verses. Notice the sense of urgency associated with baptism; consider Acts 8:36-37, Acts 10:48, Acts 16:31-34, and Acts 22:16. Why would there be a sense of urgency? When comparing with other scriptures, one realizes that baptism is "for the remission of sins," is to be buried with Christ (Romans 6:3, Col. 2:12), and that "baptism saves us" (1 Peter 3:21). It's important to see the big picture.

Baptized by the Holy Spirit. There is only one baptism that is necessary and that is of the Spirit. If the necessary one was the water then that would be the one baptism that Ephesians speaks of and it would cancel out the Holy Spirit baptism as being necessary.

Once again spiritual baptism. If it's not done by hands then how in the world does water baptism save you?

The "one" baptism that Eph. 4:5 is referring to is not "Holy Spirit" baptism. Consider Acts 10: 34 - 38. We see that the Gentiles were baptized with the Holy Spirit. Did this save them? Consider verses 47-48.

 

[FaithAlone]

Consider Acts 10: 34 - 38. We see that the Gentiles were baptized with the Holy Spirit. Did this save them? Consider verses 47-48.

Peter did ask for the Gentiles to be baptized but look further into the next chapter. Peter is explaining what happened and says "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit!' Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also AFTER BELIEVING IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, who was I that I could stand in God's way?

Once again how do you decide whether the word baptism means water or spiritual?

 

[julian the apostate]

i heard this somewhere else -

man was not made for the sacraments but sacraments for the man

i dont think people are deprived of grace on technicalities

 

[western kentucky]

Peter did ask for the Gentiles to be baptized but look further into the next chapter. Peter is explaining what happened and says "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit!' Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also AFTER BELIEVING IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, who was I that I could stand in God's way?

Once again how do you decide whether the word baptism means water or spiritual?

You are referring to 11:16-17. Also consider verse 18: When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."

The point is....... John baptized believers for repentance (Matt. 3:11), in the same way Peter was baptized by the Holy Spirit to lead the Gentiles to repentance (Acts 11:18).

There is a difference between the baptism of John and the baptism of Jesus Christ. We are commanded to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (consider Acts 19:1-5). Notice that the believers were baptized into the name of Jesus Christ (verse 5), and then later the Holy Spirit came upon them (verse 6).

Reverting back to Acts 10:47-48, the Holy Spirit fell upon the Gentiles to lead them to repentance, then Peter ordered them to be water baptized into the name of Jesus Christ. They were to be baptized because baptism: "is for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38), "is to be buried into Christ's death" (Romans 6:3), "saves us"(1 Peter 3:21), etc... When harmonizing, the picture becomes much clearer.

 

[western kentucky]

Once again how do you decide whether the word baptism means water or spiritual?

1 Cor. 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

By one Spirit they were baptized.... To understand this verse, we must consider the role and function of the Spirit. Through the scripture, we understand that the Holy Spirit directed the apostles in teaching the word of God. So, through the guidance, teaching, and instruction of the one Spirit, they were baptized (water baptism: Acts 10:47-48; Acts 8:37; 1 Pet. 3:21) into one body (Christ's body Rom. 6:3-4). I hope this helps to answer your question.

 

[- DRA -]

OK here we go again even though no one will even listen.

I am listening.

Such a misinterpretation. The water is not water baptism. Nicodemus asks "How can I crawl back into my mother and be born again?" He can't the flesh(water that breaks when a mother gives birth) is flesh and is the first birth. The second is Spirit and is the baptism of the Holy Spirit; the second and necessary birth.

Jesus described the necessity for being born again in John 3:3-5. The apostle Paul gives us a detailed account of how the new birth occurs. It occurs when one dies to sin, is freed from it, and becomes alive to God. When does this occur according to Romans 6:3-11?

Not the removal of dirt from the flesh! Not water baptism but a spiritual one that results in a clear conscious toward God!

In essence, the thought of 1 Pet. 3:20-21 is that water saved them, and baptism saves us. Have you closely examined the conversions in the book of Acts to check your understanding to see if it is correct? For instance, there is no way around Acts 8:35-39 and Acts 10:47-48 -- those baptisms were in water. Look closely at the one in Acts 10. It was "in the name of the Lord," just as the one in Acts 2:38. Therefore, it means that the one in Acts 2:38 was also in water, as was the one in Acts 19:5. What we see in the book of Acts is the apostles and first-century Christians teaching the necessity of baptism just as the Lord commanded in Mark 16:16.

If you look to the original text repent is to all people everywhere. Be baptized is for believers only for(Eis meaning because of) the remission of sins

First, the phrase "for the remission of sins" in Acts 2:38 is identical in the Koine Greek as "for the remission of sins" in Matt. 26:28. Does this phrase mean "because of" in that passage?

Second, the word "for" (the Greek word "eis") in Acts 2:38 is the same word that is also translated "for" in Rom. 4:5. What does the word "for" mean in that passage? Does it mean because of?

Do you call on His name when you're baptized in water? The reference from that scripture took me to Stephan's death when he cries aloud Jesus receive my spirit. Do you do that?

Yes. Those who do what the Lord tells them are calling on His name when they obey Him. It means that they are acting by His authority (see Acts 4:7).

Baptized by the Holy Spirit. There is only one baptism that is necessary and that is of the Spirit. If the necessary one was the water then that would be the one baptism that Ephesians speaks of and it would cancel out the Holy Spirit baptism as being necessary.

Have you considered why the Holy Spirit was promised to the apostles (see John 16:8-14)? The baptism in the name of the Lord was in water and for the remission of sins. Compare the reasons for the two baptisms. We now have God's complete revelation to man (see 2 Tim. 3:16-17; 2 Pet. 1:3; James 1:25). Do men and women still have sins today that need to be taken away? Assuming that we are in agreement that there are, then we should be able to determine which baptism is applicable today.

Once again spiritual baptism. If it's not done by hands then how in the world does water baptism save you?

By faith in the working of God (see Col. 2:12 and Rom. 6:3-11 for a more detailed description).

It is by FAITH!

Can you please explain to me how you determine the difference between water and spiritual baptism in the Bible?

Assuming that you mean the baptism with the Holy Spirit, I look at the two examples given in Scripture of when that occurred. In Acts 2, that baptism came upon the apostles, just as the Lord promised in John 16. In Acts 10, that baptism came upon the first Gentiles to hear the gospel of Christ. It clearly demonstrated to the Jews that God approved of the Gentiles receiving the gospel. On the other hand, baptism in water was commanded to take sins away e.g. Acts 2:38, Acts 10:47-48, Acts 22:16.

Food for thought:
Jesus commanded the apostles to preach the gospel to every creature (see Mark 16:15-16). In the conversions in the book of Acts we see the apostles and first-century Christians doing that very thing.

 

[- DRA -]

Peter did ask for the Gentiles to be baptized but look further into the next chapter. Peter is explaining what happened and says "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit!' Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also AFTER BELIEVING IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, who was I that I could stand in God's way?

Once again how do you decide whether the word baptism means water or spiritual?

Did Peter "ask" the Gentiles to be baptized in Acts 10:47-48?

Isn't it rather obvious that the baptism that was "commanded" in verse 47-48 was in water -- "Can any man forbid water" (KJV)?

 

[MbiaJc]

Peter did ask for the Gentiles to be baptized but look further into the next chapter. Peter is explaining what happened and says "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit!' Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also AFTER BELIEVING IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, who was I that I could stand in God's way?

Once again how do you decide whether the word baptism means water or spiritual?

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit

Peter seperates them in this verse. “Repent and be baptized, water baptism. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, Spiritual baptism. He also makes the point, we don't recieve the Holy Spirit till we are Baptised with water.

 

[MbiaJc]

i heard this somewhere else -

man was not made for the sacraments but sacraments for the man

i dont think people are deprived of grace on technicalities

That may be true, however i would hate to be standing in front of Jesus and He ask me why i was to stiffneck to be baptised when i had the opertunity.

There is another way of looking at this that hasn't been discussed here, i don't think.

Circumcism was the outward sign that a Iserolite man had intered into a covenant with God. Baptism is outward sign that we have intered into a covenant with God also. It should be one of our first act of odedience to Jesus Christ our Lord.

Remember if a Iserolite male came close to holy things without being circumcised he would be killed.

 

[ydouxist]

How the was the thief on the cross saved?
He obviously wasn't baptized with water?

 

[- DRA -]

How the was the thief on the cross saved?
He obviously wasn't baptized with water?

Consider Heb. 9:15-17. Jesus' testament or will went into effect after His death. The thief lived and died while under the law of Moses. Baptism in the name of the Lord was not a requirement under the old covenant (see Heb. 8:6-13).

After Jesus' death the terms to His will or testament were proclaimed first in Acts 2:38. Baptism was a requirement "for the remission of sins" (see also Mark 16:16).

I encourage you to read the book of Acts and consider the examples of conversions before drawing any premature conclusions e.g. Acts 8:12; 8:35-39; 10:43-47-48; 16:30-34; 18:8; 19:1-5; 22:16.

 

[ydouxist]

Consider Heb. 9:15-17. Jesus' testament or will went into effect after His death. The thief lived and died while under the law of Moses. Baptism in the name of the Lord was not a requirement under the old covenant (see Heb. 8:6-13).

After Jesus' death the terms to His will or testament were proclaimed first in Acts 2:38. Baptism was a requirement "for the remission of sins" (see also Mark 16:16).

I encourage you to read the book of Acts and consider the examples of conversions before drawing any premature conclusions e.g. Acts 8:12; 8:35-39; 10:43-47-48; 16:30-34; 18:8; 19:1-5; 22:16.

Didn't Jesus die first????

 

[- DRA -]

Didn't Jesus die first????

Jesus pardoned the thief before His death -- which was under the law of Moses. If the Lord had not pardoned the thief, he would have been judged under the law of Moses (see Rom. 2:12b).

According to Heb. 9:15-17, Jesus' testament went into effect after His death. When? At the exact moment of death, or when the terms to His will were proclaimed in Acts chapter 2?

If the thief was an example of someone being saved under the new covenant, it would agree or harmonize with the many examples of conversions in the book of Acts. Does it e.g. Acts 2:38? If it does you have a case, if it doesn't, then you don't.

 

[- DRA -]

i heard this somewhere else -

man was not made for the sacraments but sacraments for the man

i dont think people are deprived of grace on technicalities

People are rejected for NOT doing the Father's will (see Matt. 7:21-23 and Luke 6:46).

What did the apostle Peter, under the direct influence of the Holy Spirit, tell the Jews to do in Acts 2:38 to have their sins taken away? Did they obey God (see verse 41)? And, what did the Lord do as a result of their obedience (see verse 47)?