if a Christian commit suicide, do they lose their salvation?

[onenarrowdoor]

i cannot believe that the same God who called each of us to salvation in Jesus Christ, is one day going to punish again any sin that His precious Son already paid for on the cross at calvary. that would not be in keeping with the justice that we have come to expect from the Most High..
i would like to add that for a christian to kill themself, would be contrary to the new nature of a christian.. once saved we are to rest in His peace.. we are filled with His joy.. we take on a spirit of humility, and servitude..
the person that commits suicide is actually acting out of selfish motives. quite possibly a measure of arrogance, and strife.. they are not about sharing in the sufferings of the body of Christ(the saints).. they are more about themself.. not caring about the hurt, guilt , and unanswered questions that they leave others to deal with, and sort thru..
nope, there is no doubt that these are extremely selfish individuals, that are not in the least Christ centered or oriented..
i believe that they would certainly stand the judgement , as they could not possibly know the Lord of grace..

You would do well to consider the mercy of God.

 

[Billy Bayou]

nope, there is no doubt that these are extremely selfish individuals, that are not in the least Christ centered or oriented..

These individuals are not thinking rationally at all. Christian or non Christian. Christ alone knows their hearts and their mental hurdles. If someone is contemplating suicide, they are clinically mentally ill at that time. It is not sane to want to end your own life.

 

[LoricaLady]

Punishment. An interesting fascination we have with it.

Can you list the verses where Jesus said He came to punish us?

That's all.............

Yes, while Messiah was here on earth in human form He did say that He did not come to condemn but to save. However, that's not the rest of the story. Have you read Revelation? There He returns. There He punishes evil doers big time all over the planet in various, highly dramatic, ways. In fact we are told there will be a double portion of suffering given for sins committed. We are told that for the wicked there will be "weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth." Sounds like punishment to me!

Have you read the Scriptures in full? There is a concept call the pit. The wicked go there. It's not a fun place. Look at the Lazarus who was in hell. He was "in agony."

Praying for wisdom for you in these areas.

 

[LoricaLady]

Suicide is murder. Murder of one's self. Murder is breaking a commandment.

It may be - we are not told - that some people are having such severe mental problems that they don't know what they are doing. However, from reported cases that is not always the case. As is generally true with humans, different ones do things for different reasons.

What does Messiah want? He wants us to turn it all over to Him, whatever is troubling us. He is there if we reach out to Him sincerely, as long as we have the mental capacity to do so. To commit suicide can be a rejection of doing things HIS way.

I can't prove they are true but there are many cases of people with near death experiences who report that they committed suicide and they always, always, warn people not to do the same thing. They were NOT happy with where they found themselves and saw that they had NOT escaped their problems at all but were in a worse place. Who wants to go to a worse place, reportedly a dark and horrible place?

Praying for you for wisdom in these areas.

 

[Christian Soldier 777]

Simply put, no. A born again believer cannot lose his salvation. And, before a Catholic says a born again believer can surrender or willingly give up his salvation, no, the Bible is very clear that a born again believer cannot surrender or willingly give up his salvation. Salvation is of God, not of man. Man doesn't earn it and man can't lose it.

As for punishment, no, a born again believer is not punished for his sin. This includes the mythical land of "Purgatory". There is no such place. The Bible tells us that Jesus already took our punishment on the cross and paid the debt brought on by our sin in full.

I am confused!! All Christians are born again. Born again is not a denominations. John 3:3, Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. Jesus was not talking about a denomination, he was talking about being born of the Holy Spirit, which is a requirement of ALL christians!!

 

[LoricaLady]

I don't believe that a truly saved person can lose their salvation for anything. The only unforgivable sin is blaspheming the holy spirit, which, no truly saved person would ever do. It's not something you do by accident. It's a conscious act.

People who resort to taking their own life are in a state of mind that is not sane. As a result, you have to ask yourself if they are responsible for their actions at that time.

Many who have attempted suicide have been treated and moved on to very productive lives.

Christians are not punished for their sins, we are seen pure as the whitest garment as we are washed in Christ's blood. However, we will be tried by fire and many will be found lacking. This, to me, means that a person who is saved but just by having one foot in the door so to speak would have no rewards but they will have eternal life. Where as someone like Billy Graham, for lack of a better example, would have crowns and rewards for his fruits here on earth. Someone like Paul Bundy, who apparently accepted Christ before his execution, will have no reward other than salvation from eternal spiritual death.

In Revelation we see various congregations of believers. Only two aren't in deep danger of losing their lampstand/Menorrah, figuratively the Light of the World. One is told, for example, that they have "lost their first love." I.e. they did love Messiah at one time but now have grown cold. Nowhere are we told that just because Messiah paid for our sins that we can live anyway we like, now. Actually we are more obligated, therefore, to live a life of obedience to Him.

We are told that "those who persevere to the end will be saved." There's some perseverance needed fella, not just saying, "Yeal, I accept you as my Savior, now I don't have to do anything" or, as some people seem to feel "And I can do anything I like now because my sins have all been paid for!"

We are also told of some who have "tasted the Heavenly gift" but then go astray and that there is therefore no more atonement for their sins.

We are told "Many will call to me in that day [Judgment Day], Lord, Lord" i.e. they think they are believers -or, I guess I should say they think they are His followers, for "even the devils believe and tremble". They will claim they have done this and that for Him. But He will tell them "Be gone from me you workers of lawlessness. I never knew you."

If someone does make it to Heaven just barely we are told that "Some will have no reward" there. So, yes, we do have sins forgiven if we are truly His follower and persevering in trying to be obedient, therefore. But those who have been the most obedient, who "heap up treasure in Heaven" will have the most rewards and some will have no reward at all.

Praying for you for wisdom in this area.

 

[graceandpeace]

Did Christ punish the sick, or did He heal them?

Most people who commit suicide are suffering from sickness - mentally, psychologically, physically. Death is tragic, especially when brought on by one's own volition, & it's not God's desire for us of course. For anyone to think they can stand in on judgment of others though really needs to be careful, for the measure they use will measured to them. If they haven't experienced the sort of illness or anguish that may drive one to suicide, they ought to think twice about making remarks.

All Christians should strive toward compassionate actions & healing words when considering the suffering of others.

 

[LoricaLady]

We don't actually know how many people commit suicide because they are under such horrible burdens that they can't think rationally. I'm sure there are such people, but I personally think that is not always the reason based on reports from suicidal people who survived.

Yes, we are to show compassion to others. But we also can show them compassion by warning them not to do things that can get them into deep trouble. If it is your opinion that anyone can commit suicide and then go to Heaven, that is your opinion. You must respect, also, the opinions of others who think that is not necessarily always the case at all, and want to warn people to turn to Messiah and not to suicide.

 

[graceandpeace]

We don't actually know how many people commit suicide because they are under such horrible burdens that they can't think rationally. I'm sure there are such people, but I personally think that is not always the reason based on reports from suicidal people who survived.

What are the risk factors for suicide?

Research shows that risk factors for suicide include:

depression and other mental disorders, or a substance-abuse disorder (often in combination with other mental disorders). More than 90 percent of people who die by suicide have these risk factors.2
prior suicide attempt
family history of mental disorder or substance abuse
family history of suicide
family violence, including physical or sexual abuse
firearms in the home,3 the method used in more than half of suicides
incarceration
exposure to the suicidal behavior of others, such as family members, peers, or media figures.2

However, suicide and suicidal behavior are not normal responses to stress; many people have these risk factors, but are not suicidal. Research also shows that the risk for suicide is associated with changes in brain chemicals called neurotransmitters, including serotonin. Decreased levels of serotonin have been found in people with depression, impulsive disorders, and a history of suicide attempts, and in the brains of suicide victims. 4

Emphasis mine.
From NIMH · Suicide in the U.S.: Statistics and Prevention

Yes, we are to show compassion to others. But we also can show them compassion by warning them not to do things that can get them into deep trouble. If it is your opinion that anyone can commit suicide and then go to Heaven, that is your opinion. You must respect, also, the opinions of others who think that is not necessarily always the case at all, and want to warn people to turn to Messiah and not to suicide.

Well, I don't disagree with encouraging suicidal individuals to get help. However, using fear of punishment from Jesus as the motivator will not be effective for someone who may be sick. Mentally ill individuals often cannot think rationally about their feelings or control their thoughts. Disease and affliction of the mind can happen to the Christian as much as anyone else. It's part of living in a world with sickness and death.

I will never speculate on the eternal fate of an individual lost to suicide.

 

[REPHAIAHPEDAHEL]

of course not. A christian who commits suicide cannot lose his or her salvation.

 

[seashale76]

Ultimately, only God knows.

The general Orthodox Christian view boils down to the following: We don't consider that people who have committed suicide were in their right minds. The Church has made no absolute statements on the matter. We believe that God is merciful and that suicide is a very serious thing. However- ultimately- whether or not it is forgivable is for God to decide. I do know that as Orthodox Christians who commit suicide are considered in severe violation of canon law- they are not allowed a full Orthodox funeral service in the Church.

 

[LoricaLady]

What are the risk factors for suicide?

Research shows that risk factors for suicide include:

depression and other mental disorders, or a substance-abuse disorder (often in combination with other mental disorders). More than 90 percent of people who die by suicide have these risk factors.2
prior suicide attempt
family history of mental disorder or substance abuse
family history of suicide
family violence, including physical or sexual abuse
firearms in the home,3 the method used in more than half of suicides
incarceration
exposure to the suicidal behavior of others, such as family members, peers, or media figures.2

However, suicide and suicidal behavior are not normal responses to stress; many people have these risk factors, but are not suicidal. Research also shows that the risk for suicide is associated with changes in brain chemicals called neurotransmitters, including serotonin. Decreased levels of serotonin have been found in people with depression, impulsive disorders, and a history of suicide attempts, and in the brains of suicide victims. 4

Emphasis mine.
From NIMH · Suicide in the U.S.: Statistics and Prevention



Well, I don't disagree with encouraging suicidal individuals to get help. However, using fear of punishment from Jesus as the motivator will not be effective for someone who may be sick. Mentally ill individuals often cannot think rationally about their feelings or control their thoughts. Disease and affliction of the mind can happen to the Christian as much as anyone else. It's part of living in a world with sickness and death.

I will never speculate on the eternal fate of an individual lost to suicide.

I didn't ask you to speculate on anything. But, you also cannot provide any data showing that suicidal people never go to hell. There is some data, the stories of people who committed suicide and had near death experiences. They tell scary stories of what happened to them, trying to discourage others from following their paths. You want them to just shut up? Can you show their stories are not true?

The best thing to do regarding any suicidal person is to show compassion and pray to be guided by the Holy Spirit. If being afraid of going to hell is a deterent - and it most certainly is for some - then He may lead one to mention that. I haven't said, now, have I, that people should be shouted at "You'll go to hell you sinner!" or anything like that. But the truth is the truth and you get to have your opinion and I get to have mine. I think some people go to hell for committing suicide. Yeal, they may have experienced sexual abuse, drug abuse (maybe their own faults there, maybe not) or whatever. Life is often quite sad and quite hard. Suicide isn't the answer.

You seem to feel one size fits all in terms of what helps a suicidal person. I remember a time when due to health problems I really didn't care if I lived or died. But no way would I commit suicide because I feared going to hell. I have seen several people here on this Forum mention that they were feeling totally depressed, but...they said they would not commit suicide because they feared going to hell.

The truth isn't always what we want to hear, but it can be the one thing that saves us.

 

[graceandpeace]

I didn't ask you to speculate on anything. But, you also cannot provide any data showing that suicidal people never go to hell. There is some data, the stories of people who committed suicide and had near death experiences. They tell scary stories of what happened to them, trying to discourage others from following their paths. You want them to just shut up? Can you show their stories are not true?

Near death experiences have never historically been a source of Christian revelation or doctrine. It doesn't matter what I or anyone else happens think about them.

And I will end my dialogue here with you, as it is getting near debate, which I think is against the forum rules.

 

[Jupiter Drops]

No, they do not lose their salvation.

 

[Galadriel]

You put that really well, Iambren. As someone who dealt with suicidal thoughts and self-injury as a teen, you and I both know, if you haven't been there, you can't understand it.

Very true, and those are good links to explain, thanks for posting those.


I do not think said person would lose their salvation, no.