Icons of Evolution

AV1611VET · Aug 19, 2024

Just so you know, here is a list of Jonathan Wells' Icons of Evolution:

Miller-Urey experiment
Darwin's tree of life
Homology in vertebrate limbs
Haeckel's embryos
Archaeopteryx
Peppered moth
Darwin's finches
Four-winged fruit flies
Fossil horses
Hominid evolution

AlexB23 · Aug 19, 2024

AV1611VET said:
Just so you know, here is a list of Jonathan Wells' Icons of Evolution:

Miller-Urey experiment

Darwin's tree of life

Homology in vertebrate limbs

Haeckel's embryos

Archaeopteryx

Peppered moth

Darwin's finches

Four-winged fruit flies

Fossil horses

Hominid evolution

Here is the 11th icon of evolution, one that bugs me the most, cos I see it on the back of Toyota Priuses in my city. That is a total mockery of the Jesus Ichthys. I do believe in microevolution, but not in macroevolution, unless it is guided by God (theistic evolution).

The mockery of Jesus fish

The proper fish

NxNW · Aug 19, 2024

Speaking of icons of evolution, Richard Dawkins has announced his farewell tour. As he put it,

"I shall be spending the whole of September, and the first week of October, in North America, speaking in ten different cities from Dallas to Vancouver. I am 83 years old, and travel is more irksome than it was. The maxim, “Quit while you’re ahead” has recently received a welcome boost, and I anticipate that this will be my last American tour. My swansong. My final bow.

There’ll be a Q & A at every event. And I’ll be signing any or all of my 19 books, including The Genetic Book of the Dead, which will be just published. This will probably be your last opportunity to tell me how profoundly you disagree with everything I’ve written and said. Or the reverse if that is the case. Either way, I look forward to seeing you."

Tickets available at Richard Dawkins Tour – Reason Reignited

AV1611VET · Aug 19, 2024

AlexB23 said:
Here is the 11th icon of evolution, one that bugs me the most, cos I see it on the back of Toyota Priuses in my city. That is a total mockery of the Jesus Ichthys. I do believe in microevolution, but not in macroevolution, unless it is guided by God (theistic evolution).

Absolutely, my friend!

I abhor that icon, myself!

AlexB23 · Aug 19, 2024

AV1611VET said:
Absolutely, my friend!

I abhor that icon, myself!

Amen, brother. At least we both abhor that "Darwin" icon. Yes, science is cool. Yes, I am an Old-Earth Creationist. But that Darwin icon is total blasphemy.

AV1611VET · Aug 19, 2024

NxNW said:
Speaking of icons of evolution, Richard Dawkins has announced his farewell tour.

May God save his soul during that tour!

AlexB23 · Aug 19, 2024

AV1611VET said:
May God save his soul during that tour!

Amen, may God save Richard Dawkins and his followers and convert them to Christianity, or some form of Christian theistic evolution. Anything that is Christ-centered.

BCP1928 · Aug 19, 2024

AV1611VET said:
Just so you know, here is a list of Jonathan Wells' Icons of Evolution:

Miller-Urey experiment

Darwin's tree of life

Homology in vertebrate limbs

Haeckel's embryos

Archaeopteryx

Peppered moth

Darwin's finches

Four-winged fruit flies

Fossil horses

Hominid evolution

Why should we care?

AV1611VET · Aug 19, 2024

BCP1928 said:
Why should we care?

Well, Miller cared.

Urey cared.

Darwin cared.

Hermann von Meyer cared.

BCP1928 · Aug 19, 2024

AlexB23 said:
Amen, may God save Richard Dawkins and his followers and convert them to Christianity, or some form of Christian theistic evolution. Anything that is Christ-centered.

Try not to make a stumbling block for him. The theory of evolution as it stands, including macroevolution, is compatible with Christianity and there is no need to make an issue of it. He said himself that he became an atheist because he found evolution to be a better explanation than creation. The truth of it is, they are not competing explanations. He has changed over the years and now considers himself an agnostic cultural Christian. Good luck.

BCP1928 · Aug 19, 2024

AV1611VET said:
Well, Miller cared.

Urey cared.

Darwin cared.

Hermann von Meyer cared.

They were all dead by the time the book came out and in any case were smart enough to have seen through it.

AlexB23 · Aug 19, 2024

AV1611VET said:
Well, Miller cared.

Urey cared.

Darwin cared.

Hermann von Meyer cared.

Luckily, we have a Christian on our side. He is an OEC, but believes in the God-driven creation of the universe.

Hugh Ross (Canadian Christian apologist and astrophysicist):

Hugh Ross (astrophysicist) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

AlexB23 · Aug 19, 2024

BCP1928 said:
Try not to make a stumbling block for him. The theory of evolution as it stands, including macroevolution, is compatible with Christianity and there is no need to make an issue of it. He said himself that he became an atheist because he found evolution to be a better explanation than creation. The truth of it is, they are not competing explanations. He has changed over the years and now considers himself an agnostic cultural Christian. Good luck.

There are Christian macroevolution believers out there, and I believe some things were macroevolution driven, but not humans, nor the Cambrian explosion, but one can not be an agnostic Christian. One must trust in Jesus in order to approach God (John 14:6).

BCP1928 · Aug 19, 2024

AlexB23 said:
Luckily, we have a Christian on our side. He is an OEC, but believes in the God-driven creation of the universe.

All Christians do. Hugh Ross is not unique in that.

AlexB23 · Aug 19, 2024

BCP1928 said:
All Christians do. Hugh Ross is not unique in that.

There are plenty of Young Earth Creationists here who believe the earth is only a few thousand years old, and I defend my Old Earth beliefs in friendly discussions with them. But yes, all Christians believe that God made the universe. Christians just disagree on the age of the universe, and whether there is theistic evolution, or no evolution involved in the creation process.

BCP1928 · Aug 19, 2024

AlexB23 said:
There are Christian macroevolution believers out there, and I believe some things were macroevolution driven, but not humans, nor the Cambrian explosion, but one can not be an agnostic Christian. One must trust in Jesus in order to approach God (John 14:6).

I said he was a cultural Christian and an agnostic. Should make him an easy mark for evangelizing. But keep to yourself for a while that you think that some parts of evolution required direct divine intervention. Most Christians don't believe it anyway.

BCP1928 · Aug 19, 2024

AlexB23 said:
There are plenty of Young Earth Creationists here who believe the earth is only a few thousand years old, and I defend my Old Earth beliefs in friendly discussions with them. But yes, all Christians believe that God made the universe. Christians just disagree on the age of the universe, and whether there is theistic evolution, or no evolution involved in the creation process.

Perhaps you had better explain what you mean by theistic evolution. It's a broad concept with a variety of explanations. Direct divine intervention in the evolutionary process is not necessarily a feature of all versions.

AlexB23 · Aug 19, 2024

BCP1928 said:
Perhaps you had better explain what you mean by theistic evolution.

Theistic evolution is where one believes in evolution, but that God allows evolution to happen in such a way to fulfill creation. In other words, He set everything in motion, and involves Himself in specific moments to guide evolution to create life as we know it today.

AlexB23 · Aug 19, 2024

BCP1928 said:
I said he was a cultural Christian and an agnostic. Should make him an easy mark for evangelizing. But keep to yourself for a while that you think that some parts of evolution required direct divine intervention. Most Christians don't believe it anyway.

Christians are a pretty diverse group of people. I will keep that part to myself, as this is technically a science thread, not the theistic evolution thread.

BCP1928 · Aug 19, 2024

AlexB23 said:
Theistic evolution is where one believes in evolution, but that God allows evolution to happen in such a way to fulfill creation. In other words, He set everything in motion, and involves Himself in specific moments to guide evolution to create life as we know it today.

There is another version, a little more complicated theologically, which finds the theory of evolution (or any naturalistic theory, for that matter) to not require direct divine intervention on a material level but still attributes to Him continuous causal involvement. This was worked out by Thomas Aquina centuries ago and I believe it to be the position of most Traditional Christians. myself included.

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