I think I regret

[Joshua G.]

I disagree. Wisdom is divine knowledge and is a wonderful thing. A whole book in the bible is named after wisdom.

Theology can strengthen ones faith, because they learn and study it more and thus are more able to internalize it intellectually. It gives a brighter light to the understanding of scriptures. Dogmas help form our conscience, both moral and civil. The saints teach us great feats of human faith and sacrifice. Scholasticism teaches that faith isn't just some mindless thing. You can learn something new that a saint has said and it can drastically effect and strengthen your faith. You start pondering things that you have never thought of before.

You can never learn enough about God, the Church and the scriptures. Everything you learn gives you a more formed perspective on things. It makes you more sure of your faith and makes you able to defend it easier. It teaches the wisdom of God.

Theology is not a stumbling block. It is a treasure chest and a journey towards the learning of the divine. It opens up perspectives and illuminates the lights along the road to salvation. It helps answer the hard to answer questions and helps give perspective to the difficulties that many Christians have. It makes one ready to defend the faith in dignity when one is confronted with heresy or schism.

That's fine we disagree. We probably don't disagree on as much as you probably think.

However, I would point out that illiterates can have much more wisdom than a theology professor.

I suppose this is how I see it.

I can see one being holy because they pray, go to communion and confession often, regularly attend Church, help the needy, love their neighbor and their enemy all in true sincerity, be intelligent, yet not really have much of an interest in reading about the theology of their Church. The understand and profess the basics, but it's just not something they get into.

I cannot see one being holy because they have a deep understanding of theology, yet don't not love their neighbor (taht is, actually do something about it... love is an action, not a feeling).

I guess that's where I'm coming from.

I do believe that I COULD understand theology as well as some of the better known theologians out there. But I have other interests in life and only so much time. I don't think God cares one bit that I don't dig as deeply into the Academics as I COULD because I work on other talents.

I just think one can over-emphasizing the reading of the catechism or great theology books too much for some people and it is not necessarily dependent on how intelligent they are.

One cannot over-emphasize the importance of praying, participating in the sacraments, going to Church and loving their neighbor.

On the other hand, some people NEED theology becuase they deal with intellectual doubt a lot more. I think in many of us who really like theology, there is more of the doubting Thomas that we work to correct. But the old lady who goes to daily Mass, lights a candle for her loved ones and has that simple faith doesn't have that concern. She doesn't understand what Sola Scriptura is and she doesn't need to. She has a strong and simple faith. She knows if she challenged, she will go to her priest and get help. I some important respects have learned more by simply watching and listening these old ladies at Church than I have from anything else.

There's a balance, and I think in forums that balance is sometimes/often amiss.

I don't think what I am saying is unCatholic. But if you guys think it is, ask me to delete my post.

Josh

 

[Forrest GOP]

I had no idea that Antartica was a country.

It's a continent.

Yes, I know. It was a bit of humor.
Continents generally do not have their own flags.

 

[Meepy]

That's fine we disagree. We probably don't disagree on as much as you probably think.

However, I would point out that illiterates can have much more wisdom than a theology professor.

I suppose this is how I see it.

I can see one being holy because they pray, go to communion and confession often, regularly attend Church, help the needy, love their neighbor and their enemy all in true sincerity, be intelligent, yet not really have much of an interest in reading about the theology of their Church. The understand and profess the basics, but it's just not something they get into.

I cannot see one being holy because they have a deep understanding of theology, yet don't not love their neighbor (taht is, actually do something about it... love is an action, not a feeling).

I guess that's where I'm coming from.

I do believe that I COULD understand theology as well as some of the better known theologians out there. But I have other interests in life and only so much time. I don't think God cares one bit that I don't dig as deeply into the Academics as I COULD because I work on other talents.

I just think one can over-emphasizing the reading of the catechism or great theology books too much for some people and it is not necessarily dependent on how intelligent they are.

One cannot over-emphasize the importance of praying, participating in the sacraments, going to Church and loving their neighbor.

On the other hand, some people NEED theology becuase they deal with intellectual doubt a lot more. I think in many of us who really like theology, there is more of the doubting Thomas that we work to correct. But the old lady who goes to daily Mass, lights a candle for her loved ones and has that simple faith doesn't have that concern. She doesn't understand what Sola Scriptura is and she doesn't need to. She has a strong and simple faith. She knows if she challenged, she will go to her priest and get help. I some important respects have learned more by simply watching and listening these old ladies at Church than I have from anything else.

There's a balance, and I think in forums that balance is sometimes/often amiss.

I don't think what I am saying is unCatholic. But if you guys think it is, ask me to delete my post.

Josh

when someone looks into theology, or systematic dogmatic study, or the scriptures, ancient fathers, etc,, it shows to God that the person is interested in Him and wants to know and learn more about Him and His followers. I don't think there is anything harmful in that. I mean what can be harmful in learning what is truly Good? Can light mix with darkness?

Even St. Paul said. If I will brag. I will brag about God.

When the bible talks about being "puffed up". It means being puffed up in vain philosophies and spiritualist/Platonist theories. I don't think one can really be truly puffed up in the knowledge of truth.

 

[benedictaoo]

It may be God reveals Himself to the person through viewing His creation, but there are many who see God in creation and end up following pantheism.

Faith is the experience of God's revelation to the individual, however that may happen.

It comes from God and is felt in the heart.

The mind merely opens our hearts to God, but it is God who gives the grace in which we grown in faith.

Jim

I'm kinda quoting verbatim form the Baltimore catechism, so... its really not up for debate.

 

[Joshua G.]

when someone looks into theology, or systematic dogmatic study, or the scriptures, ancient fathers, etc,, it shows to God that the person is interested in Him and wants to know and learn more about Him and His followers. I don't think there is anything harmful in that. I mean what can be harmful in learning what is truly Good? Can light mix with darkness?

Even St. Paul said. If I will brag. I will brag about God.

When the bible talks about being "puffed up". It means being puffed up in vain philosophies and spiritualist/Platonist theories. I don't think one can really be truly puffed up in the knowledge of truth.

Hey, I don't want to argue with you. I think we are actually talking past each other.

Without repeating my case (because it honestly doens't bother me if you disagree with me, but I think we aren't actually discussing the exact same thing) I want to be sure that I am not at all saying that focusing on theology is a bad thing. If I did that I would be condemning most of my priests and bishops and many close friends of mine and actually, even myself to an extent.

I will say that focusing on other things is not evidence of "not caring about God" but rather caring about the talents He gave each and everyone of us.

So, a person focusing on architecture and learning the latest practice and safety guidelines and innovative techniques can still be focusing on God in doing that.

And I am certianly not saying that we should snub our noses at Theology. Just knowing that Jesus is our God and Savior, is, in and of itself theology.

I just hope you don't think I was condemning YOU for being interested in theology. CF can get a bit wierd sometimes and act as if all there is to life is talking about academic theology, as if that were a virtue in and of itsself. You and I both know that there is no virtue in the study of theology but rather what we do with the theology we study.

Josh

 

[CruciFixed]

Yep I am unsubscribing.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I saw and heard a professor of theology speak on a TV program years ago, who did not believe in God.


So, the study of theology doesn't mean one has faith.


Also, I know many people who have great faith, who have little theological knowledge and couldn't explain have of what they believe as far as Catholic doctrine.

St Bernadette didn't know what the Immaculate Conception meant, but her faith was beyond the best theologians of her day.

Jim

 

[Davidnic]

when someone looks into theology, or systematic dogmatic study, or the scriptures, ancient fathers, etc,, it shows to God that the person is interested in Him and wants to know and learn more about Him and His followers. I don't think there is anything harmful in that. I mean what can be harmful in learning what is truly Good? Can light mix with darkness?

Even St. Paul said. If I will brag. I will brag about God.

When the bible talks about being "puffed up". It means being puffed up in vain philosophies and spiritualist/Platonist theories. I don't think one can really be truly puffed up in the knowledge of truth.

there are many people who study theology and get arrogant, lose the love of God that drives real theology and for them it would have been better if they had not studied it because it was a road to pride.

If any knowledge I have of theology got in the way of my love for God and led to a lack of love or charity, I would give it up in a heart beat in favor of the simple faith that should drive all love of God.

 

[benedictaoo]

Hey, I don't want to argue with you. I think we are actually talking past each other.

Without repeating my case (because it honestly doens't bother me if you disagree with me, but I think we aren't actually discussing the exact same thing) I want to be sure that I am not at all saying that focusing on theology is a bad thing. If I did that I would be condemning most of my priests and bishops and many close friends of mine and actually, even myself to an extent.

I will say that focusing on other things is not evidence of "not caring about God" but rather caring about the talents He gave each and everyone of us.

So, a person focusing on architecture and learning the latest practice and safety guidelines and innovative techniques can still be focusing on God in doing that.

And I am certianly not saying that we should snub our noses at Theology. Just knowing that Jesus is our God and Savior, is, in and of itself theology.

I just hope you don't think I was condemning YOU for being interested in theology. CF can get a bit wierd sometimes and act as if all there is to life is talking about academic theology, as if that were a virtue in and of itsself. You and I both know that there is no virtue in the study of theology but rather what we do with the theology we study.

Josh

But some ppl, thats what they do... in one of my posts in this thread, I said there are two kinds, one who wants to know the deeper meaning and all the nuances and the ones who just want to follow the letter of what the popes wrote.

what ever, you know?

For the ones who just want to quote bone dry documents and think that is a true exercise of one's faith... what can be said?

IMO only, those are the ones who will crash and burn.

 

[Davidnic]

I saw and heard a professor of theology speak on a TV program years ago, who did not believe in God.


So, the study of theology doesn't mean one has faith.


Also, I know many people who have great faith, who have little theological knowledge and couldn't explain have of what they believe as far as Catholic doctrine.

St Bernadette didn't know what the Immaculate Conception meant, but her faith was beyond the best theologians of her day.

Jim

Yep. B16 recently summed it up :

Theology must be a work of love for God, Pope tells theologians

but theology has led many to pride and error because they loved the God they wanted and not the God who is...or they loved being knowledgeable more than the Seat of All Knowledge.

There are mysteries beyond all of us and sometimes those who study will fall to error rather than be in faithful awe of the Mystery because pride will not let them not "know"

 

[benedictaoo]

there are many people who study theology and get arrogant, lose the love of God that drives real theology and for them it would have been better if they had not studied it because it was a road to pride.

If any knowledge I have of theology got in the way of my love for God and led to a lack of love or charity, I would give it up in a heart beat in favor of the simple faith that should drive all love of God.

A-freakin- men, Davide.

and I might add, in my own life, I was like that at one time... you might even remember it and not that I'm so much better now, becuase I'm not. I find taking away something from real life experiences a much better teacher of the faith.

People want to get on a high horse about this teaching or that teaching instead of just empathizing with a person's struggles in life.

I believe Jesus called it the letter of the law vrs the law of compassion.

If I had not gone through some stuff myself, I'd still be that person and I shutter at that thought.

 

[CruciFixed]

My uncle has a master's in theology and has no faith. I did unsubscribe but I thought I'd share that.

 

[benedictaoo]

Also, I know many people who have great faith, who have little theological knowledge and couldn't explain have of what they believe as far as Catholic doctrine.

and as I said before, I envy that almost.

 

[Davidnic]

My uncle has a master's in theology and has no faith. I did unsubscribe but I thought I'd share that.

For me it is simple my education in theology has helped me in my understanding of the beauty of the faith. But it does not grow my faith is grown and nourished by the Eucharist and the grace of God in my life.

Without that any knowledge is useless. I have seen greater faith come from a simple love of the Eucharist than any degree. Not that the study of theology is wrong...it is wonderful, if it is helpful to a person.

 

[benedictaoo]

My uncle has a master's in theology and has no faith. I did unsubscribe but I thought I'd share that.

thanks for sharing that.

 

[CruciFixed]

He likes to use the bible to refute Christianity so I doubt that's what you'd call faith. He has faith in himself.....so yeah he has faith. He just doesn't believe in the Catholic Church as being the true Church he thinks that his personal practices and sins are actually justifiable in the bible and he will sit up for 24 hours arguing with someone on matters of theology but if you listen to him speak about God he almost spits and if you listen you would wonder if his heart is at all open to God's will.

I actually have two uncles who are pretty good at the whole theology thing. One has a masters in theology and the other is just well read. They are both anti-Catholic one is a universalist who claims the Church used to believe in reincarnation. He also says that he can prove with the Bible that prayer is pointless. He is so arrogant. The masters guy is also arrogant and full of himself. So there's no point in talking to either of them about Scripture because they talk over you.

 

[benedictaoo]

well I can personally attest to the fact that I have grown leaps and bounds in theology over the years and for not having any formal education in it, I have a fair amount of knowledge. I chalk it up to the fact that I'm reasonably intelligent and can grasp it.

But big deal? So what?

Its holiness I don't feel I have made a lot of progress and after 17 years, wow.

Knowledge don't count for Jack if you are not growing in God's love and in His grace.

 

[CruciFixed]

Knowledge don't count for jack if you still hate God even after you've obtained it. Look at how many atheists are well versed in the Bible

 

[benedictaoo]

Knowledge don't count for jack if you still hate God even after you've obtained it. Look at how many atheists are well versed in the Bible

Amen.

 

[benedictaoo]

Heck, I'm sure Satan is a theologian too... lol