I Obey, Therefore I Am Loved and Accepted.

[ToBeLoved]

Agreed. But works are always the by product of having a true faith. For James and Paul go together like two sides of the same coin, they don't conflict with each other; they compliment each other. Both teach us something vital. Paul looks at what goes on internally; James talks about the external results. Paul says, "We're saved by faith." James says, "This is what saving faith looks like."

In other words, works (all by their lonesome) is not what is saving you but it is the proof that Christ is living in you who does the actual saving. For he that has the Son has life and He that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12).

In addition, check out this short video, too.

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You are preaching a false gospel Jason. That is very serious to God.

It does not matter what faith in action looks like when it comes to salvation.

We are saved, BY FAITH in Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross for the forgiveness of sin.

You need to stop misleading others. Salvation is serious to GOd.

Stop doing this Jason.

 

[Steeno7]

The end result of trying to mix Law and grace is always confusion. But God is not the author of confusion. So......

 

[Job8]

It is both. They are two sides of the same coin. For you cannot have one without the other.

It is one thing to say that we cannot have genuine saving faith without good works, since believers are appointed to good works (Eph 2:8-10). It is quite another thing to say that our good works can save us, since Scripture is very clear that all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. So evidently you do not understand the significance of being clothed with the righteousness of Christ and being washed in His blood.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It is one thing to say that we cannot have genuine saving faith without good works, since believers are appointed to good works (Eph 2:8-10). It is quite another thing to say that our good works can save us, since Scripture is very clear that all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. So evidently you do not understand the significance of being clothed with the righteousness of Christ and being washed in His blood.

I never said it was our righteousness. I am saying it is God's righteousness or works that He does thru you.
(See Ezekiel 36:26-27).

As for Ephesians 2:8-9: This is talking about initial salvation and it is referencing the word: "works" in relation to the works of the Law of Moses.
In Ephesians 2:10, the word "works" is talking about the good works of Jesus done thru you. For Jesus said without Him, you can do nothing (John 15:5).

As for how a believer can get the blood to cleanse them of sin:
Well, 1 John 1:7 says, if we walk in the light as he is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.
Walking in the light is likened to keeping God's Commandments. For 1 John 1:6-7 is a parallel of 1 John 2:3-4.

....

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You are preaching a false gospel Jason. That is very serious to God.

It does not matter what faith in action looks like when it comes to salvation.

We are saved, BY FAITH in Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross for the forgiveness of sin.

You need to stop misleading others. Salvation is serious to GOd.

Stop doing this Jason.

First, nowhere am I preaching a Man Directed Works Based Type Salvation (of which you think I am doing).
I believe in Relationship-ism (1 John 5:12); Not Man Directed Works Based Savlationism.
I believe God does the "good work" within the believer. For Jesus said, you can do nothing without me (John 15:5).
Second, I believe that what you are preaching is unbiblical. I believe that you are teaching a sin and still be saved type doctrine.
For you do not believe you can stop sinning in this life and yet you will be saved (despite that).
This means, that you must ignore morality or God's goodness on some level, which is wrong.


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[Bible Highlighter]

If Jason0047 is correct, then 99.8% of the Protestants are wrong. I'll go with the odds.

Jesus said, narrow is the way that leads unto life, and few be there that finds it.


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[ToBeLoved]

First, nowhere am I preaching a Man Directed Works Based Type Salvation (of which you think I am doing).
I believe in Relationship-ism (1 John 5:12); Not Man Directed Works Based Savlationism.
I believe God does the "good work" within the believer. For Jesus said, you can do nothing without me (John 15:5).
Second, I believe that what you are preaching is unbiblical. I believe that you are teaching a sin and still be saved type doctrine.
For you do not believe you can stop sinning in this life and yet you will be saved (despite that).
This means, that you must ignore morality or God's goodness on some level, which is wrong.


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Jason0047 said: ↑
What saves? Faith or Works
It is both. They are two sides of the same coin. For you cannot have one without the other.


This is taken directly from a post a page back. So you are preaching it..

 

[ToBeLoved]

Jesus said, narrow is the way that leads unto life, and few be there that finds it.


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No. It's more that you do not know the Bible and it's teaching.

Salvation is NOT based off works, ONLY FAITH.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jason0047 said: ↑
What saves? Faith or Works
It is both. They are two sides of the same coin. For you cannot have one without the other.


This is taken directly from a post a page back. So you are preaching it..

So people have not tried to claim you believe something falsely by what you said in one post and not by looking at everything you said?

Because that is what you are doing now.

For I have made it clearly many, many times that the works done in a believer's life are the works of God when they surrender their life to the Lord.
You should know this.
I said this to you many times already.
The works done in a believer's life are:

(a) God's Works.
(b) Not man's works.

Yet, you keep pushing option (b) upon me for some reason (When I don't believe that).


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....

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No. It's more that you do not know the Bible and it's teaching.

Salvation is NOT based off works, ONLY FAITH.

Ephesians 2:8-9 is talking about initial salvation in coming to the Lord.
Ephesians 2:10 talks about how we are fore-ordained for good works by which we are created in Christ Jesus to do.
So if you are fore-ordained to do works, that means they are a necessary part of your faith.

In fact, James say that faith without works is dead (James 2:17).
Can a dead faith access the saving grace of God?

The works James in James chapter 2 speaks of are God directed works done in you over the course of your life in regards to your faith.

The works Paul is talking about in Ephesians 2:8-9 are man directed works.
The works Paul is talking about in Ephesians 2:10 are God directed works.
For God directed works is what will follow in a person's life once they repent of their sins and accept Christ and receive His salvation.




....

 

[ToBeLoved]

So people have not tried to claim you believe something falsely by what you said in one post and not by looking at everything you said?

Because that is what you are doing now.

For I have made it clearly many, many times that the works done in a believer's life are the works of God when they surrender their life to the Lord.
You should know this.
I said this to you many times already.
The works done in a believer's life are:

(a) God's Works.
(b) Not man's works.

Yet, you keep pushing option (b) upon me for some reason (When I don't believe that).
....

I was just reading along in the thread. There it was clear as day.

I was not looking for it. It was there and you said it.

Even if it were to be God's works as you indicate above, it has nothing to do with salvation.

So it is not part of salvation.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Ephesians 2:8-9 is talking about initial salvation in coming to the Lord.
Ephesians 2:10 talks about how we are fore-ordained for good works by which we are created in Christ Jesus to do.
So if you are fore-ordained to do works, that means they are a necessary part of your faith.

In fact, James say that faith without works is dead (James 2:17).
Can a dead faith access the saving grace of God?


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You are making assumptions Jason about what faith without works is dead means.

It says nothing of loosing or preventing salvation. You cannot add your own conclusions as fact. It does not say anything about salvation.

 

[Thursday]

We are saved, BY FAITH in Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross for the forgiveness of sin.

That's not what the bible teaches:

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Gal 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I was just reading along in the thread. There it was clear as day.

I was not looking for it. It was there and you said it.

Even if it were to be God's works as you indicate above, it has nothing to do with salvation.

So it is not part of salvation.

You are thinking of salvation in the wrong kind of way.

Salvation is a person named Jesus Christ (1 John 5:12).
For Jesus is the source of a person's Life.
So Salvation would then be in having a Relationship with Jesus Christ.
So Salvation is not Antinomianism.
And Salvation is not Man Directed Works Salvationism.
Salvation is Relationship-ism.
Relationship-ism is having a Relationship with Jesus Christ.
And if a person has a Relationship with Christ, they are saved and the works of Christ will be evident in their life.

Titus 1:16 says,
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate."

James 2:17 says,
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

Matthew 7:26-27 says,
26 "And every one that hears these sayings of mine, and does them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."


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[Bible Highlighter]

You are making assumptions Jason about what faith without works is dead means.

It says nothing of loosing or preventing salvation. You cannot add your own conclusions as fact. It does not say anything about salvation.

Where does James say that a person can be saved and still have a dead faith? I must have missed that part in the book of James.

Please provide verses to prove your case.

A dead faith means you cannot access the grace of God because you need a living faith in order to access it.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Also, you were saved by a God directed work.
Jesus died upon the cross to save you from your sins.
So then Jesus can live in you and be your source of salvation.
If Jesus lives in you, then good works from Christ (Not you) will be evident in your life.
That is why Paul says in 2 Corinthians 13:5 to his readers to prove whether or not Christ was in them unless they be reprobate.


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[ToBeLoved]

That's not what the bible teaches:

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Justification is not salvation. Two different words. Two different things.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Where does James say that a person can be saved and still have a dead faith? I must have missed that part in the book of James.

Please provide verses to prove your case.

A dead faith means you cannot access the grace of God because you need a living faith in order to access it.


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You make your case. It doesn't talk about salvation. Period.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You make your case. It doesn't talk about salvation. Period.

You can't be saved without faith.
A dead faith is not like having no faith at all.

Also, I am not the one that needs convincing.
I am confident in what James says.
Prove your case with James that he is saying you can be saved with even a dead faith.
I am sorry, I just do not see that mentioned within his book.


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[ToBeLoved]

You are thinking of salvation in the wrong kind of way.

Salvation is a person named Jesus Christ (1 John 5:12).
....

That is not what salvation is. Do you need a definition on salvation to help you?