I need help!

[rocker]

I don't know where else to turn about this and I don't want to tell anybody I know but here is the situation.

My wife and I have been married for nearly 6 years and those years have been mostly happy ones.

She is a stay-at-home mom with our 4 yr old and spends a lot of time on the net...especially late at night. I have never questioned this becuase she has a lot of online friends, mostly kids from our church (we are both youth leaders)
Last week she told me that some of her friends are guys and that she was telling me because she doesn't want to keep anything from me. Then the next day she asked if I minded if she met up with a guy for lunch...she explained that it was purely a friendship thing and that this guy is a strong Christian. I had some reservations but decided that it was ok with me. I have always trusted her so it didn't really bother me. This guy is a worship leader of a big church and the singer of a popular Christian band.

Since the lunch meeting she has been getting lots of text messages on her phone that she deletes after reading and she has been acting very different. I never thought I would do this but I installed a spyware program on our computer (it captures any keystrokes and takes screen shots)

To my horror I discovered that they have been having 'cybersex' and are even arranging a private meeting to fulfil their online fantasies.

I am at a complete loss of what to do and am totally surprised and very hurt.
I don't want to approach her about it because she will know that I have been spying. And I have been blaming myself thinking that I haven't been intimate enough or there is something wrong with me.
I hate the thought of ever divorcing because I still love her very much so I am hoping that this will resolve itself somehow...but I don't know how.

Sorry this was so long...anybody have any thoughts or advice?

Peter

 

[marthag003]

you have good reason to spy!! you need to confront her. so she knows you know!
good luck! seek counseling!

 

[enslow]

Get her to go to counselling with you! There is some underlying reason this is happening. If she won't go, there's not much hope for your marriage. Therefore, you must do whatever it takes to get her into counselling with you.

If she accuses you of spying, don't you see now there was reason for you to check? That blows trust right out the window!

Enslow

 

[desi]

Flip out on her and kick her out of the house for at least a month. If you are nice with her in any way about this it is tolerance for it in her eyes which makes it in the continum of 'okay', your first mistake was letting her go to lunch with this guy. Do not be understanding, be jealous with rage. I would find out who this guy is and go ballistic on him at his work, or church in front of his parishoners if he is who she says she saw. You need for this to blow up in his and her face to make it so painful she has to stop.

 

[E-beth]

The Praise Team Leader at my church was caught being unfaithful too, and it totally through my church into a temporary tailspin. However, in the long run, my church became somehow stronger knowing that someone who had been a false teacher had been removed from a ministry position. Therefore, I think you should confront both of them. And his church. Then terminate your internet account.

I also have had male internet friends. My husband has female internet friends as well. However, the rule is, we don't accept calls or meet in real life without the presence of the spouse. No matter how Godly the person is that my husband wants to meet, he doesn't meet them without me being with him.

Enough with the secrest. If you quietly ignore it, it will fester until every time she walks out the door you will wonder. And don't forget she is home without you alot.

Maybe she hasn't been exactly physical yet and you can nip it in the bud. But you have to get proactive and confront them.

I am praying for you all.

 

[brettnolan]

Rocker,

From experience.

There is some truth to the advice you've been given up til now. It SHOULD be painful for both. If they are true Christians, they will see what they are doing for what it is and know how much damage they are doing...particularly to your four year old child. (I imagine she's taking the kid to lunch with her unless she has accomplices) However, you need to KNOW your spouse and be able to predict how she might react to your initial accusations and ultimately to divorce proceedings if you go that far.

In my case, my wife had a very vindictive nature...she always had to make sure that she "got even," or had her say. I was very afraid of confronting her and even more afraid of divorcing her because of what I thought she might do. It was too much for me to comtemplate her moving 2000 miles away with my son (worst case scenario) or dragging us all through a nasty court battle. So I gave that aspect a great deal of weight in deciding how to handle everything. Perhaps, I gave it TOO MUCH, and in retrospect, I probably did because we have a very fair arrangement with our kids. But for me, I am glad that I was extra cautious.

I wholeheartedly agree that you need to confront her as soon as possible, BUT if there is any way possible for you to catch her without giving up your spying methods, do that. You will want to verify that it's over when she says it's over. BELIEVE ME, you are NOT going to trust her for a long time. So try not to reveal your methods if you can. It takes an enormous amount of patience and will power. You didn't really say, but I would imagine it is nearly impossible for you to concentrate on very much, but you have to try keep it on the back burner until times come when you can actually do something about it.

(1)You might try walking in the room often when she's on the internet, (2)check your cell phone bill for her calls to him and pages (I don't know if those show up on the bill or not). If you're not getting a detailed bill, get one. It will show you the numbers called and received usually. Then it's not a matter of spying, it's being prudent with your phone bill. (3) ASK her what's going on, because you've noted that she's behaving differently. You'll need specific examples or she'll blow you off. (4) If you know some computer wizards, you might ask them if there is some way you might be able to "stumble across" old IM messages, emails, etc., without spy software. (5) If you have the funds, SPY as much and in as many different ways as possible. The more you know, the easier it will be to drag the truth out without revealing your methods. (6) Friends and neighbors can be helpful if you feel comfortable going to them. (7) Keep notes of EVERYTHING for future purposes. (8) Be suspicious of her every move outside the house (My ex had her "boyfriend" meet her at the airport when WE got back from vacation with our kids)

There will be people telling you what you're doing is wrong...that's bull. You wouldn't be doing it if she wasn't an adulterer. There is NO excuse. You have the right to know. By the way, go ahead and take a deep, hard look at yourself and see where YOU went wrong so far in the marriage. Take your part of the blame (maybe there is none), confess it, then forget it. It's NOT your fault she's cheating. There is a right way and a wrong way to handle marital problems. Sleeping (there may not have been physical contact at this point, but she has still cheated) with other people will not solve marital strife and EVERYONE knows that.

Also, don't let people try to rush you into a divorce right away without thinking. You have a kid. I keep bringing up the kid, because that was the big issue for me. No matter what anyone tells you (a lawyer, family law judge, psychologist, whoever) the mother still gets the benefit of the doubt. And, typical of the modern world, adultery means nothing. You get no points in the legal system for being the victim of a cheating spouse (unless you are a woman).

You need to start working on her right away, the longer it goes on, the more painful. You have to judge for yourself how much and how long you can take the pain. That will chart your course of action. But try to look at everything from a long term perspective as much as you can. I was able to do that and it saved my marriage for a while, then it happened again so I had to end it. But some people are NEVER able to get over the deception and the broken trust and should divorce the first time. Only you know what you can handle.

If you'd care to know more, or need more help let me know, you can post a thread or send me a PM.

I hate this for you my friend. Don't forget the most important Person at this time. Only He can give you real peace. And he will. He saved my life.

 

[sandman]

rocker



This will not resolve itself.

I am going to be blunt I hope you don’t get offended because that is not my intention.

My desire is to see this matter nipped at the bud so it does not escalate to anything further.

First get divorce out of your mind it’s the last option and you are no where near that.

You are hurt understandably………..I don’t think anybody in your shoes wouldn’t be. But think of this as a wake-up call. By that I mean somebody else right now is meeting your wife’s needs, and that is unacceptable.

I know your somewhat in torment about the situation wondering how she could do this, and what you have done wrong …and that is good to an extent, just don’t dwell on this. Remember it’s always a spiritual battle; the adversary would like nothing more then to break up another family.

You need jump in and take charge. There is a couple of different ways but I would suggest confronting her with something like

Since you meet with that person for lunch you have been acting........ very differently. Now I know that something is going on and you tell that “you don’t want to keep anything from me” so ……what is going on ..and I want the truth. You tell her you love her and you are concerned, very concerned for your relationship. You can remind her that the adversary’s prime objective is to break up families through deceit and subtle maneuvers and you don’t want that to happen to your marriage.

Continue on with………I know I have made mistakes and have not been the best husband I can be { I am not saying you’re a bad husband we all can do better but really this may not even be about you as much as you need to get her attention to the reality of what is going on} but I am madly in love with you, and I want to make sure that, as it is my responsibility to God is to meet your needs, that I am doing just that. If you feel that I have fallen short in my responsibility then we need to talk, and I need to change, because I don’t want anything to come between us. I also want to say that it was wrong for me to say ok to you meeting this other person for lunch alone I had some reservations and I just don’t think it is right for a married woman to be meeting another guy that I don’t know, Christian or not; anymore then it would be right for me to be meeting another woman someplace, it’s just not right.

You never need to mention the spyware but you better be ready to communicate your feelings. You should also have a pretty good idea as to what it is that has captured your wife’s emotions and be ready to meet those needs…..just don’t give up.

If you get no response from your wife I would confront the guy, appeal to his sense of morals if he is the Christian leader that you stated; you may be able to shake him back into fellowship.



My prayers are with you

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

God Bless

sandman

 

[rocker]

Thanks everyone for the great advice...especially sandman and brettnolan. Thanks for being so blunt and taking the time to reply.
For some reason I am thinking more about my daughter in this situation more than anything else. I grew up in a broken home and vowed that would never happen to my child.
The only thing I can think of is that she mentions from time to time that I am not romantic or intimate enough and need to show her more attention. Perhaps she is right although I thought I showed her lots of affection. It's the Venus and Mars thing I suppose. I never imagined that she would go elsewhere for those needs.
It has taken this to happen to wake me up to that fact.
I really do want to nip this in the bud before it goes too far. I have already made a decision not to be vindictive. I will just love her 100 times more. The weird thing is, last night we had the best sex we have had in months! Thats me trying to win her back without saying anything

I would like to confront her but it would be even better if I can subtley get her to confess and then talk about our problems.
I love her so much and I will not allow the devil to destroy our marriage.
I keep on thinking about Jesus and the woman caught in adultery...He didn't condemn her...He just loved her.

Thanks for your prayers...I will keep you posted.

 

[brettnolan]

I agree with sandman, except don't be surprised AT ALL if she calmly claims there is nothing wrong. She could look you straight it the eye and lie her face off. Then after you press a while she could get upset that you're asking such questions. In other words, you KNOW what's going on, and you're looking (hoping) that she'll be honest and spill the beans. But she doesn't know that you know, and she may try to hide it indefinitely and basically suggest that you're a fool for even thinking that she could be seeing someone else.

My wife lied through her teeth through the whole thing, even after she knew what my methods were, she would she have the nerve to lie to me. She never knew for sure if I knew anything, be she called my bluff everytime. She would even lie to me about things that she KNEW I knew, or at least had good reason to think that I knew.

Also, I didn't mean to suggest that you should be thinking about divorce right now. There is still a chance to save your marriage. You would be hard pressed to find a marriage that hasn't experienced infidelity and, remarkably, many of them still make it. And you CAN get back to the way it was, it's hard but you can get there.

On the other hand, you need to think about divorce in terms of planning. Just IN CASE that's where you end up. You need to think about all of the ramifications of that. Again, I would put that sort of thinking on the back burner, you have other things to think about right now. It IS the FINAL option, but I think you already know that and see it as such.

BTW - the best sex my wife and I EVER had, was when she was cheating. In hindsight, it's a disgusting thought, but it's normal. You might as well enjoy the heck out of it, if you can.

 

[YouthPastor]

I assume you have "hard Proof"??

I also think you need to try to catch her when she is doing it - or get her to confess - ie, you have been acting differently.

Regardless of if they do or don't meet to physically act out their online fantasies - the online fantasy is more than enough for them to be removed from ministry - atleast for a time.

Once your wife confesses - or you catch her - the guy needs to be confronted.

being that he is in a leadership position - confession to you alone is not enough - his pastor needs to be informed of the situation - and what his pastor does is up to him. The band also needs to be told - The reason - peopl look up to bands - with him doing what he is doing - he has no right to be leading worship or leading a christian band

 

[Svt4Him]

Actually divorce is always an option. But let me avoid that for now.

You should go to the church this man is a leader in, and have them discipline him. To ignore isn't fair to the church. But that's probably the least of your worries.

What I would do? I'd meet with the guy...but I'd beat him up. Not very Christian I know, but I would anyway. Then I'd talk to my wife, and if she wasn't repentant, then yes, I would seek a divorce. There is nothing you can do if she doesn't want to change. If she does, then it may take a bit of work, and I'd meet with my pastor if I was you.

As far as late night chats go, they shouldn't. I don't care if she's talking to a pastor, I've seen more than enough to know these are bad.

Now here's a gut feeling I have, and forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think there's more than what you've written. I don't know why, and I can be wrong. Is there anything else you could add? And honestly I'm sorry if I am wrong, it's happened before.

 

[Jinn_Ku]

I think you have to confront her. And him too. I have to agree with Svt4him in that it is not fair to the church for this not to brought up. And if he does not listen, you need to tell someone else you can trust to go with you (that is the biblical way, after all).

I do think you need to confront her. I am not aware of any Scripture that says finding the truth is forbidden (which is all your spyware thing was doing), but looking on another with liust is adultery. It's not going to go away on it's own. And that counseling suggestion is a great idea.

I will pray for you.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Confronting her is the first step. But the word confronting doesn't convey the method very well. You do not have to be contrary about the issue. You can take it to her without being argumentative and that is what you should do. Take it to her and present the evidence you have. Tell her you think she should step down as a youth leader and that you both need to go to counseling. If she refuses to step down you should indeed take this issue before the deacons, elders, pastor of your church (dependant on the hierachy of your church) and let them deal with the issue of her being in a leadership postion. Once you have done that make a decision to respect their choice and to not worry about that part of it anymore.

If you want your marriage to get through this then forgiveness is the first order of business. This should be done regardless of how she reacts to you bringing her the evidence. Once you have fogiven her you can act rationally and not succumb to anger and act rashly. Even if you decide that the marriage cannot work and that you should divorce her, which is acceptable, you still need to fogive her before any of that takes place. Seek God for help in forgiving her and he will help you. What you should do totally relies on her reaction to you bringing her the evidence that you have against her. I personally would not rely on her initial reaction and would try to not react to that reaction at all. She is currently operating in the old sin nature and her first reaction will from that nature. I would see how she reacts over the course of a day or two and go from there. Of course if she is repentant you should immediately get into a Christian counseling program. If she is not and refuses to stop what she is doing then you need to divorce her and move on with your life, however this will only be evident with time.

Adultery by women is usually not based on a need for sex. You will find this out in marriage counseling, I know it came as a shock for me. What you will generally find out is that you were not meeting her needs. This may or may not be your fault as she may have not these needs known to you or even know she had them. I am not saying that you are at fault for her cheating but that the reasons she is considering it are probably much more complicated than a sexual desire. Marriage counseling is usually pretty hard for men to swallow as they find out that they need to meet their wife's needs that they were not aware their wife had to begin with. Counseling is not easy, and repairing a marriage is hard work but God will grant you the strength to get through the process if that is the road you choose.

As for the other person involved: I would not go directly to his chruch. I would pray that God would give me strength to control my anger and I would call him and present him with the evidence and let him know that he should step down from any leadership position in the church and that if he does not you will be forced to go to his superiors in the church and present them with the evidence that you have. You will also need to forgive him as well. If we do not forgive we run the risk of God not forgiving us according to the scriptures. Let him know you forgive him, this may well be the thing that turns the whole situation around to work for the glory of God. The Bible does promise that all things work together for the good of those that love the Lord. It may not seem that way right now, but that is a promise we can fall back on when we cannot see the way things are working for His good, much less ours.

 

[LN]

Rocker,

I don't know what to say other than I'm sorry you have to go through this. IMHO even lunch with a man alone unless it is a professional lunch is inappropriate. You did nothing wrong here.

LN

 

[mamaneenie]

OK, firstly you have done nothing wrong. Your wife is doing the wrong thing to you and your daughter, and also to herself. She is hurting everyone, and probably doesn't even think about it. I am a SAHM too, and can understand the loneliness and isolation involved, which may have led her to do something like this. Both your wife and the man involved need to be confronted. Not only that, you need to tell the pastor of the church, because he is hurting people in his church as well as you and your family.

You can confront someone and still love them. In fact you will probably be loving them more if you confront them, you can be civil about it, but something is wrong.

You say that you are giving your wife attention, perhaps she doesn't see it, there is a book called the Five Love Languages which talks about how different people perceive their spouse telling them they love them.

 

[rocker]

Thanks everyone so much for your great advice. I have taken some of the advice on board, some not.

It happened on Friday night.....when I got home from work I wanted to create the atmosphere for a heart-to-heart talk so I didn't attempt to hide the fact that I was miserable....she asked 'what's wrong?' I didn't answer...silence IS an amazing thing. She said 'let's go into the bedroom and talk'
I asked her straight out 'is there anything going on with you and that guy you had lunch with' (I didn't want to tell her about the spyware and I still don't...I want to verify that the relationship has ceased.) Again silence. She denied that there was anything happening. I told her that I noticed she had been acting differently and I could sense that there was something not right (which is the truth since it was that feeling that led me to install the spyware in the first place) She said that she had been communicating with this guy through text messages, email and IM conversations but that it was just 'friendly'. I asked her to be truthful and tell me if there was anything else. She said that he had been giving her lots of 'compliments'. I explained that compliments can lead to seduction and that I didn't like the relationship and would like it to cease. I could feel the presence of God in the room that night and the sense that I was taking my Godly authority in our marriage back. I looked at her close in the eyes and quoted that verse 'As for me and my house...we will serve the Lord.' and then added '....and to hell with the devil!!' I could sense God's authority all over me.
I could see her melt and she cried tears of sorrow as God convicted her.
She still hasn't come clean with the whole truth but she is human and I won't try to force that out of her.

I verified that she sent an email to this guy on Saturday and told him she couldn't carry on a relationship any longer. She mentioned the conversation that we had and said that God has been dealing with her and had intervened (which He certainly did)

Yesterday I had a long talk to her about how I could meet her needs better and that I wanted with all my heart to be a better husband to her. Again God's presense was huge!
I praise God the way He has handled this and even though it was not the perfect scenario from many of your points of view I can see God's hand at work.
What the devil had planned for evil God has turned around for good.
I havent approached or made any contact with the other guy and I don't intend to despite the advice of most of the people here. I fully understand why that advice was given by the way. I prayed about this and could sense God telling me 'leave him to Me'

My marriage has undergone lots of healing in the past few days. I praise God for all He has done and will continue to do. The forgiveness that He has placed in me is unbelievable. I never thought I could forgive her but I truly have.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts, advice and prayers.

Peter

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Peter,

Praise God for the change in your marriage. I have one last piece of advice: If you expect full disclosure from your wife then you need to be completely candid as well. You will have to tell her about the spyware so that you are not guilty of hiding anything from her. It will be tough to be sure but it is the right thing to do. Get a clean slate for both of you, forgive and start fresh hiding nothing from each other. It will do wonders after the initial shock is over and done with. Then be sure to remove the spyware completely, maybe even with her watching. Do this out of love for her and know that honesty is the only solution in situations like these.

 

[mamaneenie]

I am so happy to hear that you have begun to sort things out. To be honest I think you will need to come clean on the spyware as well, otherwise it will be hanging over you.

 

[brettnolan]

Peter,

Praise God for the change in your marriage. I have one last piece of advice: If you expect full disclosure from your wife then you need to be completely candid as well. You will have to tell her about the spyware so that you are not guilty of hiding anything from her. It will be tough to be sure but it is the right thing to do. Get a clean slate for both of you, forgive and start fresh hiding nothing from each other. It will do wonders after the initial shock is over and done with. Then be sure to remove the spyware completely, maybe even with her watching. Do this out of love for her and know that honesty is the only solution in situations like these.

NO WAY, JOSE! Not just yet. This thing didn't start overnight and it won't end overnight. You've got to keep your ace in the hole for a little while at least.

From what I read, she hasn't come completely clean yet anyway. And from experience, this ain't over. You can't just feelings off. You definitely have an advantage over my situation because your wife at least gave herself away a little bit with the "tears of sorrow" AND she also seems to have a much stronger faith than my former wife, but there will be relapses amd you will have to decide how many of those you can tolerate. You will also want to be able to verify them in case that sense of dread comes over you again. You won't want to accuse her falsely in the future just because you THINK something might be going on.

I would WAIT!!!

I fully understand your point flesh99, and don't disagree with you in principle, but not yet.

But for now, PRAISE GOD! This is great news! Keep the faith my man.

 

[Kathleenb]

I suggested a couple of books in a couple of divorce threads - one I mentioned was The Five Love Languages by Gary Smalley. One I forgot to mention was His Needs, Her Needs by Willard Harley. Both great books for teaching married couples how to meet each other's needs.

Sounds like you handled the situation well. Praise God for your wife's willingness to return to the straight and narrow.

I suggest you talk about rules & limits for both of you - what do you think is acceptable behavior, what is not? Only meet with someone of the opposite sex if it's a business meeting (and no suspicious circumstances) or someone the spouse already know? Anyway, get these things on the table to keep you both safe in the future.