I Just Went From Christian To...

[Mr.Incredible]

...I Think, Agnostic.

I haven't gone to church for years, and the stuff that I've been seeing on History channel goes against the stuff that I was taught as a child.

I honestly don't know the truth, I want to know, but I don't think I ever will.

The Government has been lying to it's people for years, and religion just seems to be a big scam lately.

Mormonism is the biggest ---- religion out there, South Park proved it to me, lol.

Anyway, on the History channel, there are all these talks of extraterrestrial life, and how the people who wrote the bible probably saw UFOs. I mean, it makes sense. To live in a time to where there are no cars, no tvs, not steel structures, mostly wood and stone, and you see this advanced technology, you're not going to know what it is, and you'll end up describing it to things that you see around you.

There are buildings, structures, that have been found that are older than the pyramids, stones that are either 8000 years old, or from the year 8000BC.

There are stories that are older than the Bible.

There are beliefs of magic carpets, and dragons, that could have been misinterpretations of UFOs.

There is even the possibility, that we got our technology from Aliens, and that our DNA could have been a combination of a Chimp DNA and theirs.

Look at the statues and drawings in egypt. People with bird or crocodile heads, animals with heads of humans. There is no way that they could've thought of stuff like that back than, it could have been the aliens testing DNAs and doing experiments.

The Great Pyramid is like a big mystery all on it's own. Giant structures tend to sink inches, even feet over decades or centuries. Yet, the great Pyramid, the heaviest man made structure on earth, that is thousands of years old and still standing, and has only sunk less than an inch?

Yeah, there are many things that are not explained, and I don't know what to believe in honestly.

I do believe that there is a higher power out there, but I just don't know the exact truth.

I think that when growing up, the church I went to used fear for me to believe. Still now, as I'm writing this, I'm scared to death of going to hell.

I've suffered for years on earth, and this planet is just full of pain (look at baumers challenge thread to see for yourself), I don't deserve to suffer even more afterwards, when I'm a chill person from the start.

I don't know where I'm going with this, it's just probably a giant rant.

But what do you guys believe in? Have you ever changed beliefs like the way that I possibly have just now?

Is it wrong to accept the fact that you just don't know what's the truth anymore, when you've probably been lied to your entire life?

 

[CryptoLutheran]

As much as I like the History channel, it's not exactly a source of solid, scholarly information. It's mission isn't to inform and education, but to net in ratings, and sensationalist programming is usually a good way to do that.

Again, I'm not discrediting everything it airs, only that it's not an infallible source of knowledge and does A) make mistakes and B) put on programming for sheer entertainment value (e.g. "Ancient Astronauts").

What I would recommend is going to more scholarly sources, actual works of history from credible scholars.

I don't think there's anything wrong with not knowing what to believe. Doubt isn't bad, doubt provokes us to think, ask questions and seek answers.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[philadiddle]

I don't really see anything in your post that is reason to leave your Christian faith for agnosticism. The only thing your post really says is that you now use what you see on TV to shape your worldview. Think about it for a few minutes....the bible is wrong because a TV show said they saw aliens when they wrote it?!?!

 

[EphesiaNZ]

Being a new Christian and having an inquiring mind, I always question the Bible when I read it - not because I don't believe whats being told but I have to satisfy my own curiosity and doubt.

It seems to me that you're doing the reverse, taking in arguments against your belief system in order to suppress that belief, without questioning the authenticity of what you have seen or heard - or am I talking rubbish?

Read through the Bible, understand it then use those arguments or doubts you expressed to then see how your belief stands up to all those doubts.

 

[shernren]

An alien civilization capable of visiting us would need the physical knowledge required to break or bend the laws of General Relativity; the economic wisdom required to manage a multi-stellar empire (without which it would never have enough resources to justify a crazy trip out to Hickstown, Milky Way); and the spiritual sensitivity and empathy to not just wipe us out altogether.

The God of the Bible is waaay more credible a belief than that.

 

[Mr.Incredible]

Ok, check this out.

The stories in the bible are the same stories of a different religion much older than the bible. There are mysteries out there about the pyramids and stuff.

The bible claims (when checking the genealogy) that earth, or mankind, is just 6,000 years old. But there are buildings that are 8,000 years old. There are even structures that are 40,000 years old that are found underwater near asia, at a time when there was no water there, but land.

When looking at hieroglyphs, it shows us everything from their alphabet, their agriculture, their history, but it says nothing about how the pyramids are made. I mean, great structures sink overtime, in decades, some skyscrapers sink a few inches, yet the great pyramid, which is probably the largest man-made structure on earth, and one of the oldest, has sank less than 1/2 an inch in over 2000 years.

Also, look at the egyptian statues, people with heads of birds or crocodiles, or a person with a body of a lion, these could have been alien testings of mixing dna's. Not only that, but like, our dna is over 95% the same as a chimps. There are theory's that aliens used their DNA to make us.

There are stuff in the bible, that these sightings of angels and stuff were actually UFOs.

Geez, there are even paintings and carvings that shows alien life, or a UFO.

Just look at some of these paintings:

[never mind, wont let me post links]

Also, some cultures believe that Imitation is the highest form of flattery, so look at these people:

[never mind, wont let me post links]

^These different cultures chose to have elongated skulls, just like aliens!

I mean, there are also stories of magic carpets in parts of india, and dragons in china. These could have been UFOs.

Put yourself in their position. Living in a society with no computers, no cars, no clothing, no planes. The only thing they see flying in the sky are birds, and than they see this giant metallic object making noise and fire coming out. These are rocket ships, UFOs.

To rule out the possibility that aliens have helped us evolved is just foolish, it's very much possible.

 

[EphesiaNZ]

Also, look at the egyptian statues, people with heads of birds or crocodiles, or a person with a body of a lion, these could have been alien testings of mixing dna's. Not only that, but like, our dna is over 95% the same as a chimps. There are theory's that aliens used their DNA to make us.

I could make a statue with a chickens head on a person (and it would be a bad one as I'm not an sculptor) - thats proves nothing in particular.

If they were actually genetic variations of alien mixes then where are these mutants today and where is the DNA?

You haven't mentioned corn circle's made by alien spaceship's that were the rage several years ago?

 

[wpage]

There is no burden of proof placed on History Channel shows. Which are by design entertaining and controversial. Otherwise no one would watch...

The Bible on the other hand is a source document. Gods inerrent word.
Pray and read to communicate with God and learn.

 

[Greg1234]

...I Think, Agnostic.

I haven't gone to church for years, and the stuff that I've been seeing on History channel goes against the stuff that I was taught as a child.

I honestly don't know the truth, I want to know, but I don't think I ever will.

The Government has been lying to it's people for years, and religion just seems to be a big scam lately.

Mormonism is the biggest ---- religion out there, South Park proved it to me, lol.

Anyway, on the History channel, there are all these talks of extraterrestrial life, and how the people who wrote the bible probably saw UFOs. I mean, it makes sense. To live in a time to where there are no cars, no tvs, not steel structures, mostly wood and stone, and you see this advanced technology, you're not going to know what it is, and you'll end up describing it to things that you see around you.

There are buildings, structures, that have been found that are older than the pyramids, stones that are either 8000 years old, or from the year 8000BC.

There are stories that are older than the Bible.

There are beliefs of magic carpets, and dragons, that could have been misinterpretations of UFOs.

There is even the possibility, that we got our technology from Aliens, and that our DNA could have been a combination of a Chimp DNA and theirs.

Look at the statues and drawings in egypt. People with bird or crocodile heads, animals with heads of humans. There is no way that they could've thought of stuff like that back than, it could have been the aliens testing DNAs and doing experiments.

The Great Pyramid is like a big mystery all on it's own. Giant structures tend to sink inches, even feet over decades or centuries. Yet, the great Pyramid, the heaviest man made structure on earth, that is thousands of years old and still standing, and has only sunk less than an inch?

Yeah, there are many things that are not explained, and I don't know what to believe in honestly.

I do believe that there is a higher power out there, but I just don't know the exact truth.

I think that when growing up, the church I went to used fear for me to believe. Still now, as I'm writing this, I'm scared to death of going to hell.

I've suffered for years on earth, and this planet is just full of pain (look at baumers challenge thread to see for yourself), I don't deserve to suffer even more afterwards, when I'm a chill person from the start.

I don't know where I'm going with this, it's just probably a giant rant.

But what do you guys believe in? Have you ever changed beliefs like the way that I possibly have just now?

Is it wrong to accept the fact that you just don't know what's the truth anymore, when you've probably been lied to your entire life?

Alien life is a part of a plane of life in the physical universe and would also be designed (don't tell Dawkins ) As for a search for the truth, the command was seek and ye shall find. Just like we don't know everything to know about the human body, we don't know everything there is to know about God. If gaps in biology do not relegate protien synthesis, how does a gap in metaphysics relegate God? It is in fact a growth. Just like I don't see any reason to be an amagneticfieldist just because the entire magnetic spectrum has not objectively been mapped, I see no reason to be an atheist just because I don't know everything about God. Line upon line, good luck chief

 

[CryptoLutheran]

Ok, check this out.

The stories in the bible are the same stories of a different religion much older than the bible.

Some are. There's reason to believe that some of the early stories in Genesis are versions of several stories that existed in the ancient near east but given a Hebraic spin for the theological and literary purposes of those compiling the text of Genesis.

This really isn't news, you're likely to find this stuff covered in seminary classes.

There are mysteries out there about the pyramids and stuff.

There are lots of things that are mysteries. But not having all the facts about something isn't enough reason to jump to conclusions. Credible and serious scholars, historians and archeologists are actually pretty well informed about when the pyramids were built, who built them and what they were for.

The bible claims (when checking the genealogy) that earth, or mankind, is just 6,000 years old. But there are buildings that are 8,000 years old. There are even structures that are 40,000 years old that are found underwater near asia, at a time when there was no water there, but land.

The oldest human made structures likely come from a site in modern day Turkey known as Gobekli Tepe, dating around 11,000 years ago.

It's okay not to read Genesis literally, lots of Christians don't (many of the early Christians such as Origen and St. Augustine of Hippo didn't either). A literal reading of Genesis isn't a requirement for being a Christian.

When looking at hieroglyphs, it shows us everything from their alphabet, their agriculture, their history, but it says nothing about how the pyramids are made. I mean, great structures sink overtime, in decades, some skyscrapers sink a few inches, yet the great pyramid, which is probably the largest man-made structure on earth, and one of the oldest, has sank less than 1/2 an inch in over 2000 years.

The great pyramids are far younger than other man-made structures, such as those at Gobeli Tepe that I mentioned. People made them, not aliens.

Also, look at the egyptian statues, people with heads of birds or crocodiles, or a person with a body of a lion, these could have been alien testings of mixing dna's. Not only that, but like, our dna is over 95% the same as a chimps. There are theory's that aliens used their DNA to make us.

You'll find animals, animal-human combinations, animals that turn into humans in mythologies in most cultures. Chances are aliens and genetic experimentation being the cause is slim to none. Instead what's more likely is that human beings have had a natural proclivity to divinize the things they see around them: birds, snakes, mountains, rivers, seas, the sun, the moon, the sky, the earth, the whole gamut of things which they experienced. It's pretty easy to see how things can be divinized even in the modern era. Consider the cargo cults that have cropped up in recent history, or perhaps even more strange the Prince Philip Movement.

There are stuff in the bible, that these sightings of angels and stuff were actually UFOs.

Geez, there are even paintings and carvings that shows alien life, or a UFO.

Just look at some of these paintings:

[never mind, wont let me post links]

Also, some cultures believe that Imitation is the highest form of flattery, so look at these people:

[never mind, wont let me post links]

^These different cultures chose to have elongated skulls, just like aliens!

I mean, there are also stories of magic carpets in parts of india, and dragons in china. These could have been UFOs.

Put yourself in their position. Living in a society with no computers, no cars, no clothing, no planes. The only thing they see flying in the sky are birds, and than they see this giant metallic object making noise and fire coming out. These are rocket ships, UFOs.

To rule out the possibility that aliens have helped us evolved is just foolish, it's very much possible.

It's possible, sure. The question is whether the sensationalized "evidence" is actually evidence at all. Unless there is a massive conspiracy stretching across all fields of academia including historians, archeologists, scholars, astronomers, physicists, (the whole gamut) to cover up this "truth" from us that aliens did everything, I don't see how it's a credible position to just leap to apart from blind faith--which, consequently, is one would hazard a guess, what you're trying to avoid.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[callmeMurph]

Great points Crypto, exactly what I was thinking.

 

[Jase]

The stories in the bible are the same stories of a different religion much older than the bible. There are mysteries out there about the pyramids and stuff.

People just make jokes about the pyramids being built by aliens due to it being such a huge feat for Egyptians to build it. But it's really not that complicated on how they did it.

The bible claims (when checking the genealogy) that earth, or mankind, is just 6,000 years old. But there are buildings that are 8,000 years old. There are even structures that are 40,000 years old that are found underwater near asia, at a time when there was no water there, but land.

The earth most certainly isn't 6,000 years old. One doesn't need to take Genesis completely literally to be a believer.

When looking at hieroglyphs, it shows us everything from their alphabet, their agriculture, their history, but it says nothing about how the pyramids are made. I mean, great structures sink overtime, in decades, some skyscrapers sink a few inches, yet the great pyramid, which is probably the largest man-made structure on earth, and one of the oldest, has sank less than 1/2 an inch in over 2000 years.

Pyramids have a very very wide base and surface area. I probably wouldn't expect them to sink much.

Also, look at the egyptian statues, people with heads of birds or crocodiles, or a person with a body of a lion, these could have been alien testings of mixing dna's. Not only that, but like, our dna is over 95% the same as a chimps. There are theory's that aliens used their DNA to make us.

Who came up with those theories, the Raelians?

There are stuff in the bible, that these sightings of angels and stuff were actually UFOs.

I don't recall the Bible talking about flying saucers or alien spacecraft.

Geez, there are even paintings and carvings that shows alien life, or a UFO.

There is, really?

^These different cultures chose to have elongated skulls, just like aliens!

Are you sure you haven't been watching Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls?

To rule out the possibility that aliens have helped us evolved is just foolish, it's very much possible.

Very unlikely. Why haven't we seen more activity from these aliens since the stone age if that were the case?

 

[Mr.Incredible]

I could make a statue with a chickens head on a person (and it would be a bad one as I'm not an sculptor) - thats proves nothing in particular.

If they were actually genetic variations of alien mixes then where are these mutants today and where is the DNA?

You haven't mentioned corn circle's made by alien spaceship's that were the rage several years ago?

At that time, those civilizations were having those sculptures/carvings on their wall (hieroglyphs), and they would only engrave what they see around them. They wouldn't be able to make this stuff up, are you serious?

You're asking me where these mutants are? Hell, I don't know. Just like there is also no evidence of the tools that they used to build these pyramids. Don't say that they just turned into dust, because there are vases, cups, and other artifacts found from that period, but when it comes to tools on how they build the pyramid, nothing. No historical documentation on how they built it, why would they keep that from us?

Also, it can't be a coincidence that the 3 pyramids are directly under the 3 stars that make up orion's belt, and how those 3 pyramids are directly in the center of earth (latitude/longitude)

 

[Mr.Incredible]

There is no burden of proof placed on History Channel shows. Which are by design entertaining and controversial. Otherwise no one would watch...

The Bible on the other hand is a source document. Gods inerrent word.
Pray and read to communicate with God and learn.

How can you say that the bible is a source document, and God's inherent word, when the stories from the bible are actually depicted from stories that are thousands of years older than the bible?

There are dozens of religions out there, each have very similar stories, because it all came from one original story thousands of years ago, probably twice or thrice as old as the bible.

 

[Drax]

The History Channel specials are full of loons who escape peer review and reject mainstream scholarship. They also are interested in causing doubt and questioning, but of the postmodern "I don't know what to believe" variety. Friend, I implore you - do not put much stock in any fantastic claims shows about aliens or any of those other things. Do not let them shake your belief. They are utterly bogus.

 

[Drax]

How can you say that the bible is a source document, and God's inherent word, when the stories from the bible are actually depicted from stories that are thousands of years older than the bible?

There are dozens of religions out there, each have very similar stories, because it all came from one original story thousands of years ago, probably twice or thrice as old as the bible.

The reliability of Scripture is not dependent upon stories from other texts. It is dependent upon the character of God.

 

[Mr.Incredible]

The great pyramids are far younger than other man-made structures, such as those at Gobeli Tepe that I mentioned. People made them, not aliens.


It's possible, sure. The question is whether the sensationalized "evidence" is actually evidence at all. Unless there is a massive conspiracy stretching across all fields of academia including historians, archeologists, scholars, astronomers, physicists, (the whole gamut) to cover up this "truth" from us that aliens did everything, I don't see how it's a credible position to just leap to apart from blind faith--which, consequently, is one would hazard a guess, what you're trying to avoid.

-CryptoLutheran

Aren't there stories in the bible, that someone is explaining seeing something in the sky, and it's basically a UFO?

How can you be sure that people made these structures thousands of years ago? Looking at the pyramids, the stones are cut so perfectly that a piece of paper can't go between them, that light won't be able to go between them. Where are the tools that they used to build this? It had to be something advanced, but mankind thousands of years ago weren't exactly the brightest people, so they had to have help from someone, right? aliens.

 

[Mr.Incredible]

People just make jokes about the pyramids being built by aliens due to it being such a huge feat for Egyptians to build it. But it's really not that complicated on how they did it.

^If it's not that complicated, than explain.

The earth most certainly isn't 6,000 years old. One doesn't need to take Genesis completely literally to be a believer.

^Ok.

Pyramids have a very very wide base and surface area. I probably wouldn't expect them to sink much.

^I doubt it. It's one of the heaviest structures (if not the heaviest) in the world, it has to sink. Don't give me this wide base surface area bs

Who came up with those theories, the Raelians?

^Who?

I don't recall the Bible talking about flying saucers or alien spacecraft.

^Neither do I, but I assume you've read the entire bible, go back and look for it, or I can just do it myself and show you later

There is, really?

^Yes, really.

Are you sure you haven't been watching Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls?

^Pretty positive buddy, google it, and you'll see.

Very unlikely. Why haven't we seen more activity from these aliens since the stone age if that were the case?

^There have been more activity. Youtube it. Youtube search, Jerusalem UFO, Ancient Aliens The Evidence, and Japan Earthquake Lights. There is another one of this light in the middle of nowhere, and just flashes and you see a ufo come out of it, but I'm having a hard time trying to find it on youtube.

 

[Mr.Incredible]

The reliability of Scripture is not dependent upon stories from other texts. It is dependent upon the character of God.

But the stories in the bible are from a different religions, from different stories much older than the bible.

What I'm basically saying is that the entire bible is not original, it got most of it's stories from other places.

 

[philadiddle]

they would only engrave what they see around them. They wouldn't be able to make this stuff up, are you serious?

Well we are serious, but it appears that you are just trying to have some fun with us.