A conversation about unity.

[Xeno.of.athens]

Only uppercase Catholic refers to the Church of Rome.

Churches such as Old Catholic Church, Ecumenical Catholic Church, Liberal Catholic Church, Polish National Catholic Church and American Catholic Church aren’t part of the RCC. Even though they have “Catholic” in their name.

And not one of those is the Catholic Church that is referred to in the OP - I ought to know because I wrote the OP.

 

[RileyG]

And not one of those is the Catholic Church that is referred to in the OP - I ought to know because I wrote the OP.

I’m aware. I was just responding to a post that there is more than one Church that has its word in its official title.

My apologies!

 

[Hentenza]

Precisely, it is His Church

Just not THA Catholic Church. Your church was merely one among many that the apostles planted.

 

[RileyG]

And not one of those is the Catholic Church that is referred to in the OP - I ought to know because I wrote the OP.

And yes, when I say Catholic Church I refer to the RCC and all rites in communion with the Bishop of Rome.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

It was me who raised the point about closed communion to address the unity issue among some churches including yours. This was on topic to the thread. However you’ve been tooting your horn since the OP so any comment not consistent with your opinion has been met with hostility. So as long as we toe the line all is well. (Not).

I have replied to your claims. I took the trouble to cite my references. You evidently reject the references because they are from Catholic Dogmatic sources. You say "they do not resonate" with you. I wonder if you think I ought to be worried that they do not resonate with you.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Just not THA Catholic Church. Your church was merely one among many that the apostles planted.

It is The Catholic Church. That is understood in the OP.

 

[RileyG]

Just not THA Catholic Church. Your church was merely one among many that the apostles planted.

The Catholic response is yes, sort of.

The RCC does recognize the validity of the sacraments of the EO, OO, and Assyrian Church of the East because they are ancient and apostolic with valid bishops.

The Church just views them as in schism because they aren’t in union with the Bishop of Rome.

 

[RileyG]

It is The Catholic Church. That is understood in the OP.

Amen!

 

[Hentenza]

I have replied to your claims. I took the trouble to cite my references. You evidently reject the references because they are from Catholic Dogmatic sources. You say "they do not resonate" with you. I wonder if you think I ought to be worried that they do not resonate with you.

But your OP and the title of your thread IS about having a conversation about unity. What chance did this thread had to actually have a conversation about unity if only what your church teaches is valid? Oh, the arrogance. The many other Christian churches in the world do not follow Catholic dogma or teachings. We do have teachings in common but the teachings of my church are as valid to me as those of your church are to you. Unity with your church is impossible. It reminds me of the borg lol.

 

[concretecamper]

Just not THA Catholic Church. Your church was merely one among many that the apostles planted.

Not the Roman Catholic Church, and now not the Catholic Church, please make up your mind what to call His Church.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

You wrote flippantly of damnation, yet the Catholic Church teaches that Hell is no rhetorical flourish. It is eternal separation from God, freely chosen by obstinate rejection of divine truth. The Council of Florence (1439) solemnly defined: “The souls of those who die in actual mortal sin go down into Hell immediately after death and there suffer eternal punishments” (DS 1306). If you knowingly reject the truths revealed by God and taught by His Church, and persist in mortal sin without repentance, then yes—by that measure, you condemn yourself.

You claim to place critical reasoning above faith, as though reason were sovereign and revelation subordinate. That is a grave error. The First Vatican Council (1870) defined that “faith is a supernatural virtue by which we believe that what God has revealed is true, not because its intrinsic truth is seen by the natural light of reason, but because of the authority of God who reveals it” (Dei Filius, ch. 3; DS 3008). Reason is not abolished by faith, but perfected by it. To exalt reason above faith is to enthrone pride and dethrone God.

You dismiss all sources—Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant—as irrelevant to your judgements. That is intellectual arrogance masquerading as independence. The Catholic Church alone possesses the fullness of truth, as affirmed by Dominus Iesus (2000): “The Church of Christ subsists in the Catholic Church, governed by the Successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him” (§4). To reject this is not merely to differ in opinion; it is to reject Christ’s own authority, for He said to Peter, “You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church” (Matthew 16:18).

You may speak “unabashedly and unapologetically,” but truth is not subject to your bravado. The Church does not bend to your rhetorical flair. She proclaims what God has revealed, whether you accept it or not. If you persist in rebellion, you will face the consequences—not because the Church condemns you, but because you condemn yourself by refusing the grace offered to you. “He who believes and is baptised will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned” (Mark 16:16).

You are not beyond redemption. But you must humble yourself before the truth, not wield reason as a weapon against it. The Church calls you to repentance, not applause. One may walk away now—but no one will not walk away from judgement.

I'm already a Christian, so I'm sure there are, and will be, ZERO consequences for my deviance of not fully subscribing to everything that comes from the Roman Catholic Church proper.

Don't like that I said that? TOO BAD !!! Keep pushing me. Your church is but one of many Christian churches. It's not "THE" church and no one,------------I repeat, NO ONE-----------has to see it as such. EVER.

 

[concretecamper]

valid to me

You hit the nail on the head. Subjective truth instead of objective truth.

 

[Hentenza]

The Catholic response is yes, sort of.

The RCC does recognize the validity of the sacraments of the EO, OO, and Assyrian Church of the East because they are ancient and apostolic with valid bishops.

The Church just views them as in schism because they aren’t in union with the Bishop of Rome.

But those churches are as valid as yours and so are post reformation churches. All encompass the body of believers in the church universal.

 

[concretecamper]

I'm already a Christian, so I'm sure there are, and will be, ZERO consequences for my deviance of not fully subscribing to everything that comes from the Roman Catholic Church proper.

Don't like that I said that? TOO BAD !!! Keep pushing me.

A second example of subjective truth.

 

[Hentenza]

You hit the nail on the head. Subjective truth instead of objective truth.

Oh no it is objective truth. Next time don’t mine quote my post. I’m done talking to you.

 

[RileyG]

But those churches are as valid as yours and so are post reformation churches. All encompass the body of believers in the church universal.

I love them ALL as my brothers and sisters in Christ, regardless of theology,

Peace

 

[Hentenza]

This thread reminds me of the heaven joke.


Three men arrive at the gates of heaven. St. Peter asks the first man,

"Religion?"The first man replies, "Episcopalian."

St. Peter looks down his list and says, "go to room 24. But be very quiet

as you pass room 8."To the second man St. Peter asks, "Religion."

The second man replies "Methodist."

St. Peter looks down his list and says, "Go to room 14. But be very quiet

as you pass room 8."To the third man St. Peter asks. "Religion."

The third man replies, "Baptist."

St. Peter looks down his list and says. "Go to room 21. But be very quiet

as you pass room 8."

The third man then says to St. Peter, "I can understand there being

different rooms for different religions, but why must we be

quiet when we pass room 8?"

St. Peter tells him, "Well the catholics are in room 8, and they think

they're the only ones here."

 

[Hentenza]

I love them ALL as my brothers and sisters in Christ, regardless of theology,

Peace

Me too.

Peace to you too.

 

[RileyG]

This thread reminds me of the heaven joke.


Three men arrive at the gates of heaven. St. Peter asks the first man,

"Religion?"The first man replies, "Episcopalian."

St. Peter looks down his list and says, "go to room 24. But be very quiet

as you pass room 8."To the second man St. Peter asks, "Religion."

The second man replies "Methodist."

St. Peter looks down his list and says, "Go to room 14. But be very quiet

as you pass room 8."To the third man St. Peter asks. "Religion."

The third man replies, "Baptist."

St. Peter looks down his list and says. "Go to room 21. But be very quiet

as you pass room 8."

The third man then says to St. Peter, "I can understand there being

different rooms for different religions, but why must we be

quiet when we pass room 8?"

St. Peter tells him, "Well the catholics are in room 8, and they think

they're the only ones here."

Maybe before Vatican II, but I assure you the Church believes non-Catholics can be saved

 

[RileyG]

Me too.

Peace to you too.

Thank you.