Hm. You don't understand evolution. Necessity has nothing to do with it. Lots of creatures would benefit from wings. Gazelles for example. That doesn't mean they'll ever have them.
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I just realized something hilarious.
- Thread starter DontTreadOnMike
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Hm. You don't understand evolution. Necessity has nothing to do with it. Lots of creatures would benefit from wings. Gazelles for example. That doesn't mean they'll ever have them.
leftyatbest
fully-gruntled
It really doesn't matter who started it. A positive claim requires proof, a negative claim does not. I didn't pick my nose today. Want me to prove it? I did pick my nose today. Here is the booger, see where this is going?
Burden of proof is on you.
Burden of proof is on you.
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Yep. This.
"I don't believe that there is a god" is different from "I believe that there is no god."
The first one is making no claim. The second one is making a positive (and unprovable) claim. I don't believe there is a god because I have not been given a reason to believe in a god. I'm waiting for positive proof of unicorns, thor, time cube, and yahweh before I will believe in them. I won't make any positive claim either way because I don't know.
Anyone who makes a positive claim that any of those things exist is the one that bears the burden of proof.
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- May 26, 2004
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Dead wrong. I do not claim there is a God. By your own words, all I have asserted is my BELIEF that there is a God. I have not claimed God exists I've claimed I believe God exists. Would you like that proven? No problem. I believe God exists. This is undeniably true (that I have this belief). Has the burden of proof been fulfilled?
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Dead wrong. I do not claim there is a God. By your own words, all I have asserted is my BELIEF that there is a God. I have not claimed God exists I've claimed I believe God exists. Would you like that proven? No problem. I believe God exists. This is undeniably true (that I have this belief). Has the burden of proof been fulfilled?
Oh so you don't claim that there is a God? Great! What's the problem then? Let's get back to the science!
Evolution and why it's true. Discuss.
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- May 26, 2004
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Oh so you don't claim that there is a God? Great! What's the problem then? Let's get back to the science!
Evolution and why it's true. Discuss.
You have heard of faith, right? That's what Christians claim to have. That means having a belief, not having proof. I'm surprised that this is news to you. You seem otherwise intelligent.
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You're right. I have no basis to believe there is no God and I don't. I simply lack belief there is a God. You are also right in saying there is no proof your God is real. In fact, do you have any sound reason at all to believe your God is real? No? Then why do you believe it? Please don't just say because you have faith. Religious faith is belief without sound evidence or sound reasons. Why do you believe something so implausible without sound evidence or sound reasons?
You're right, it isn't, but to a reasonable person, it dictates absence of belief. Again, despite a complete absence of sound evidence, you unreasonably believe your God is real. Why is that?
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Greg1234
In the beginning was El
Necessity pertains to the idea of advantageous changes through random mutation (where the change is necessary for the advantage to be derived) being selected as a result of a need being satisfied. Better known to you as the new and improved Natural Selection. But all you have done here is what has been said for some time now. That Natural Selection has nothing to do with it. Natural selection is not the point of interest as it is random mutation which is the builder. So when you see the argument that man cannot be assembled through chance, you should be the one pioneering the correction of the "no, it's Natural Selection" clan. When you see attention deceptively redirected to the passivity of Natural Selection, knowing that random mutation is the active force should bring easy kudos.
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leftyatbest
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Dead wrong. I do not claim there is a God. By your own words, all I have asserted is my BELIEF that there is a God. I have not claimed God exists I've claimed I believe God exists. Would you like that proven? No problem. I believe God exists. This is undeniably true (that I have this belief). Has the burden of proof been fulfilled?
This made me laugh. Yes you did prove that you believ in god. Not try "god exists" or "god does not exist". Those are the claims that matter.
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You guys can claim that God doesn't exist all you want, but your curiosity is Biblical fulfillment in action:
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
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K
knowledgeIsPower
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I've got to say I have no problem with people believing that their chosen god exists. Everyone on this Earth should have a right freedom of thought, freedom of expression and freedom of religion and nobody should be allowed to try and take those rights away from them.
The problem comes in when people tell you they know their chosen god exists.
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leftyatbest
fully-gruntled
No. We don't just study Christianity. Many of us study many religions. All I see it that line is "if someone can pick me up we will play fallow the leader"
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I mean Christians in general. Unless you're only speaking for yourself when you say your belief is only based on faith and not proof.
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My only problem with your previous statement was your use of the word necessity. Necessity is not natural selection and it has nothing to do with evolution. It's not the same thing. There's lots of things I NEED to survive, wings, claws, stronger muscles, quicker reflexes, night vision, bat-like hearing etc. But humans will probably never evolve those things.
I never down played natural selection. I didn't even mention it. Natural selection is just as important as random mutation. Mutating is the easy part. Every human is born with over 100 mutations and we collect even more as we age; some of which can even be passed down to our children. Most mutations are completely harmless and neutral. Some are bad and some are beneficial. In the wild, if a beneficial mutation helps me live long enough to have babies, that new trait might be passed on. Now, since you're a creationist, you're probably imagining that I'm talking about extra limbs, or newly formed half-wings, or brand new coat of feather where before there were none. No I'm talking about maybe my skin is a slightly different new shade that helps me blend in. Maybe I have 15% more body hair and that keeps me warmer. Maybe I was born with more muscle mass (a mutation that already exists in humans).
Whatever increases my chances of being alive long enough to have children, or whatever makes me more attractive to females, will have the increased chance of being passed on to my children.
Is there anything there that you disagree with?
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