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I just now realized that I am a Calvinist!

98cwitr

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Here are the points...known as TULIP

Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

www.calvinistcorner.com/tulip.htm


I never knew I was a Calvinist (nor had I ever even heard of him) before I was CALLED one. ^_^ Im 4.5 points :p Only point Im a little out on is Irresistible Grace. For since even the elect have sinned, they have resisted God for a temporary time, but the elect always come around.
 
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JM

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I never knew I was a Calvinist (nor had I ever even heard of him) before I was CALLED one. ^_^ Im 4.5 points :p Only point Im a little out on is Irresistible Grace. For since even the elect have sinned, they have resisted God for a temporary time, but the elect always come around.

Same here. I was attending an Anglican Bible study and when it came time to talk about soteriology I was labeled a Calvinist. So I did what every good biblical Calvinist does, DENIED IT! I explained I never read Calvin and avoided reading him for years but now...I just admit it.

Would "I" be easier understood as conquering grace or overwhelming love? God will eventually conquering the sinful rebel with overwhelming love...

Yours in the Lord,

Harry Calvinist
 
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nonaeroterraqueous

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then why is the original poster saying he is a 0 point calvinist that means he doesn't agree with any of them

Wouldn't that necessarily be Pelagianism? That's generally regarded as heresy.

The better question is how many of the points do you have to accept to be in the good graces of other Calvinists?

To be in the good graces of Calvinists I don't think it's necessary to actually be one, but if you're asking what it takes to be considered a Calvinist by other Calvinists....I'm not sure what the minimum score is, but you really don't want to have six points less to your theology than any Calvinist you happen to meet.
 
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Dan61861

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I just now realized that I am a Calvinist.:doh: Tom Cuckoo is a one-point Calvinist.:) Dick Chimey is a three-point Calvinist.;) Harry Tick Talk is a five-point Calvinist.:D And I am a zero-point Calvinist!:cool:

Are you a Tom, Dick, or Harry Calvinist, or one of a different kind—perhaps one like me?:holy:

Aww man, that's the worst kind.

In Christ
Daniel
 
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BBAS 64

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I just now realized that I am a Calvinist.:doh: Tom Cuckoo is a one-point Calvinist.:) Dick Chimey is a three-point Calvinist.;) Harry Tick Talk is a five-point Calvinist.:D And I am a zero-point Calvinist!:cool:

Are you a Tom, Dick, or Harry Calvinist, or one of a different kind—perhaps one like me?:holy:

Well like I use to tell my 4 point pastor, you are using the correct biblical theological standard, and be assured God is not done with you yet...

:hug:
 
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Skala

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Here are the points...known as TULIP

Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

The Five Points of Calvinism, TULIP


I never knew I was a Calvinist (nor had I ever even heard of him) before I was CALLED one. ^_^ Im 4.5 points :p Only point Im a little out on is Irresistible Grace. For since even the elect have sinned, they have resisted God for a temporary time, but the elect always come around.

This just means you have a misunderstanding of what the doctrine of Irresistible Grace aims to teach :)

It does not mean that the elect never resist God, but instead, it means that the Holy Spirit never fails to bring to salvation those God intends to save.
 
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Skala

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I just now realized that I am a Calvinist.:doh: Tom Cuckoo is a one-point Calvinist.:) Dick Chimey is a three-point Calvinist.;) Harry Tick Talk is a five-point Calvinist.:D And I am a zero-point Calvinist!:cool:

Are you a Tom, Dick, or Harry Calvinist, or one of a different kind—perhaps one like me?:holy:

So you don't believe that fallen men are helpless to be saved except for some kind of enabling/helping grace on God's part? (Total Depravity)

That makes you a Pelagian. I wouldn't brag about that.
 
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98cwitr

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This just means you have a misunderstanding of what the doctrine of Irresistible Grace aims to teach :)

It does not mean that the elect never resist God, but instead, it means that the Holy Spirit never fails to bring to salvation those God intends to save.

I agree with that statement you just made. Have to do more research on this "external vs internal" calling

Irresistible Grace:
When God calls his elect into salvation, they cannot resist. God offers to all people the gospel message. This is called the external call. But to the elect, God extends an internal call and it cannot be resisted. This call is by the Holy Spirit who works in the hearts and minds of the elect to bring them to repentance and regeneration whereby they willingly and freely come to God. Some of the verses used in support of this teaching are Romans 9:16 where it says that "it is not of him who wills nor of him who runs, but of God who has mercy"; Philippians 2:12-13 where God is said to be the one working salvation in the individual; John 6:28-29 where faith is declared to be the work of God; Acts 13:48 where God appoints people to believe; and John 1:12-13 where being born again is not by man’s will, but by God’s.
“All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out," (John 6:37).
 
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Skala

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I agree with that statement you just made. Have to do more research on this "external vs internal" calling

Very true. It is helpful to distinguish between the inner and outward calls!

"Whom he called, he justified.." Romans 8:29-30

If every single person he calls, he also justifies, that must mean this "calling" is a special, effectual type of calling. Otherwise it would say "Some of those he called, he justified".
 
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ALoveDivine

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I would be a five-point Calvinist, and I'm cool with that, because It's just the biblical way of understanding soteriology.

I've always affirmed eternal security from the day I was saved onward, but the main thing that brought me into the Calvinist camp was the doctrine of election. As I was seriously reading the new Testament for the first time, front to back, I could not help but notice the overwhelming amount of passages that indicated God choosing those whom he would save. I came to conclude that election and predestination are just biblical truths. Upon learning that, I discovered the doctrines of grace (5 points), which put everything into perspective.

On top of all that, but own salvation experience was very much like being 'dragged' by God; there wasn't much "free will" or "making a decision" involved in it.

Now I've periodically struggled with "limited atonement" but anytime I wrestle with that I still come back to asserting the whole 5 points. Arminian soteriology seems rather incoherent and intellectually bankrupt to me, as well as bordering on works-righteousness.
 
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Skala

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On top of all that, but own salvation experience was very much like being 'dragged' by God; there wasn't much "free will" or "making a decision" involved in it.

Thanks for the testimony. But to clarify, Calvinism does not teach that there is no free-will decision in salvation. One popular quote is "The will is not passed-by in salvation"

Our wills are very much a part of the salvation process. Our wills choose what we desire. As such, it is impossible to choose to follow Christ without, well, making a choice to do so! You said you didn't "make a decision" in your salvation experience, but as you can see that is logically impossible. You can't currently be following Christ and exercising faith in him without willingly choosing to do so.

Calvinism asserts that apart from regeneration, nobody would desire Christ, thus they choose to reject him, accordingly.

However, the Holy Spirit comes to the elect and grants them new life in Christ in regeneration, and now that they are no longer spiritually dead, but alive (Eph 2:1ff), they are no longer blind to spiritual truth and have stony hearts, and they finally desire Christ, and thus, again, choose accordingly.

In other words, before regeneration, everyone makes free will choices to reject Christ.
But after regeneration, we make free will choices to accept Christ.

Thus the necessity of the Holy Spirit's work in our salvation. To quote John chapter 3:

"Except a man be born again, he cannot see (perceive) the kingdom of God"

Thanks to the new birth, we can now see the kingdom and enter it.
 
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nonaeroterraqueous

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Thanks for the testimony. But to clarify, Calvinism does not teach that there is no free-will decision in salvation. One popular quote is "The will is not passed-by in salvation"

There's free will, and then there's free will. We can say that we don't believe in free will, meaning that we don't believe a person comes to the faith by a will that is free and independent of God's election. The Arminian view uses that meaning of the term. To avoid confusion, I prefer to use the term, "will," despite the fact that it still feels and acts like a free will, from the human point of view.

Even so, it's still true that the Calvinist perspective is a two-sided coin, and the Arminian perspective only acknowledges one side of that coin.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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So you don't believe that fallen men are helpless to be saved except for some kind of enabling/helping grace on God's part? (Total Depravity)

That makes you a Pelagian. I wouldn't brag about that.

Total Depravity:
Because of the fall, man is unable of himself to savingly believe the gospel. The sinner is dead, blind, and deaf to the things of God; his heart is deceitful and desperately corrupt. His will is not free, it is in bondage to his evil nature, therefore, he will not—indeed he cannot—choose good over evil in the spiritual realm. Consequently, it takes much more than the Spirit’s assistance to bring a sinner to Christ—it takes regeneration by which the Spirit makes the sinner alive and gives him a new nature. Faith is not something man contributes to salvation—it is God’s gift to the sinner, not the sinner’s gift to God.*​

*Steele, David N., and Curtis C. Thomas. The Five Points of Calvinism, Defined, Defended, Documented. Philadelphia: Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Co. 1974.

The doctrine of total depravity was first taught during the Protestant Reformation. Despite an intensive search in tens of thousands of pre-reformation documents, this erroneous doctrine has not been found in any of them! Indeed, the doctrine of total depravity was deduced by the Reformers and introduced into the church by them, having been deduced from the incorrect premise that God is absolutely sovereign. That is, since God is absolutely sovereign, unregenerate man is incapable of doing anything at all to contribute to his salvation, requiring that the unsaved man’s state is such that he is dead, blind, and deaf to the ministry of the Holy Spirit.

Prior to the Reformation, the Church, with the exception of Pelagius and his adherents, taught that the nature of man, as a consequence of his fall in the garden, included an inclination to sin. God, however, desiring all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth, gave Himself, in the person of Christ Jesus, as a ransom for all. Therefore, the gospel is preached that men everywhere may hear, and that the Holy Spirit may convict the hearers of their need for salvation and of the truth of the good news of good things.

Indeed, all five points of Calvinism were deduced by the Reformers from the incorrect premise that God is absolutely sovereign. However, the Bible teaches that God, in accord with His sovereign will, left the will of man intact after his fall in the garden. That this was the belief of the Jews, there is no question. For example, we read in Sirach 15:11-20,

11 Say not thou, It is through the Lord, that I fell away, for thou oughtest not to doe the things that he hateth.
12 Say not thou, He hath caused mee to erre, for hee hath no need of the sinfull man.
13 The Lord hateth all abomination, and they that feare God loue it not.
14 Hee himselfe made man from the beginning, and left him in the hand of his counsell,
Sir 15:15 If thou wilt, to keepe the Commandements, and to performe acceptable faithfulnesse.
16 He hath set fire and water before thee: stretch forth thy hand vnto whether thou wilt. 17 Before man is life and death, and whether him liketh shalbe giuen him.
18 For the wisedome of the Lord is great, and he is mighty in power, and beholdeth all things,
19 And his eyes are vpon them that feare him, & hee knoweth euery worke of man.
20 Hee hath commanded no man to do wickedly, neither hath he giuen any man license to sinne. (KJV)


Man's Free Will
11. Say not: "It was God's doing that I fell away";
for what he hates he does not do.
12. Say not: "It was he who set me astray";
for he has no need of wicked man.
13. Abominable wickedness the LORD hates,
he does not let it befall those who fear him.
14. When God, in the beginning, created man,
he made him subject to his own free choice.
15. If you choose you can keep the commandments;
it is loyalty to do his will.
16. There are set before you fire and water;
to whichever you choose, stretch forth your hand.
17. Before man are life and death,
whichever he chooses shall be given him.
18. Immense is the wisdom of the LORD;
he is mighty in power, and all-seeing.
19. The eyes of God see all he has made;
he understands man's every deed.
20. No man does he command to sin,
to none does he give strength for lies. (NAB)

The teaching of Jesus focused on false doctrines held by the Jews. Their belief in man’s free will being left intact after the fall was never refuted by Jesus. Indeed, Jesus believed it Himself!

John 3:14. "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;
15. so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
16. "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. (NASB, 1995)

John 6:47. "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. (NASB, 1995)

So did Peter,

Acts 16:31. They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” (NASB, 1995)

And Paul,

Eph. 2.88. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, {it is} the gift of God;
9. not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. (NASB, 1995)

For those readers who would like to further information, here is a good link:

DOES REGENERATION PRECEDE FAITH
 
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