I have this feeling I should obey this

[Albion]

Thankyou I have thought of going to a church which will do such ordinances in a respectful manner. As I have been baptized I do not believe I need to but it could be more helpful to get baptized again while being a believer if that would make me more able to be united to God in this world.

Not if your "top" choices are Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Both of them believe that baptism is indelible and cannot be repeated. It's only a minority view among Protestants of the Baptist type that the sacrament can be repeated (and ought to be when one's life changes). What the Catholic and Orthodox churches do is administer an additional sacrament, called in the Catholic Church 'Confirmation.'

I want a minister who will respect the formula given in the bible and treat the ordinances properly in the right manner as taught by the bible

Honestly, you "talk" as though you are oriented towards the Baptist churches, not the Catholic and Orthodox churches. I am only interested in helping you with you own decision, but are you sure that you have ruled out Protestantism entirely??

 

[mikeforjesus]

I am not following those churches at all I decided to follow the Protestant churches . I thought that was clear from my posts

 

[Albion]

I am not following those churches at all I decided to follow the Protestant churches . I thought that was clear from my posts

To me, it seemed that you have been uncertain. But no matter. My advice remains the same--visit and experience the churches you are considering. It's more effective than just reading up on the differences. Then, when you are ready, inquire about joining.

 

[mikeforjesus]

I still visit the Orthodox Church just to fellowship as a priest visited me and likes to see me there. He told me he does not believe others are not Christian but we only have differences. He believes it can help me I don’t think I have to be closed to any churches and share what I learn with others. One can go if he wants to be convinced but I don’t think I need to go often to find out for I don’t believe God hides the truth from people as He said trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He shall direct your paths. I could go any way to be certain I have given it its chances but I don’t think God would hide the truth from people. I believe you can trust God to guide a person to the truth so God would not let you miss opportunity to not find the truth but if you think you have not done or tried something you can but there will always be opportunity to find the truth.

 

[mikeforjesus]

I decided I should probably leave protestantism as I don't know if I can trust any of them to have love for me to accept me if they will accept to marry me and not judge me to accept me as I am even if I am not very successful in doing much for the Lord that they want or expect from me that I can not do I do plan to serve the Lord but I shouldn’t be judged by them trying to be the leaders and even if I do not do much for the Lord I don’t want to be rejected but they should be content and not to be fed up with me because they want to control me and charge me as abusive because I want to speak my feelings a lot of what I think is right that we should be doing I obviously would try to respect feelings but I am not sure I can trust others to not seek to divorce me I am doubting they are real christians



I think I should teach the Orthodox Church is the true church I have heard it taught now but I don't know if they can change church teaching if the church did not agree on this as said by the fathers who taught salvation is only in the church that we know where Christ is we do not know where He is not. They can't say that if the church fathers never did. Maybe the church fathers never would judge catholics or even converts from orthodox to catholic who don't know as it seems one may believe the fathers taught it if pope Damasus and others taught it but we don't know and if you can't know but we don't know there may be only one true church. So I choose to trust the orthodox church as I am not fully convinced of catholic church. I could go to catholic church to be convinced.I can visit catholic church for an exorcism for a prayer to bind evil spirits if they are preventing me from seeing clearly or to learn their faith but I don't think they can convince me otherwise


previously I thought to do below


I thought to do the below some other day but I changed my mind and decided above


I decided I will return to orthodox church I accept it as the true faith but only those born into the orthodox faith need to stay orthodox others can become catholic those raised catholic believing it is true would not be condemned for being catholic so orthodox can not convert to catholicism some say we know where christ is we do not know where christ is not but I don't know if that is taught by the church because they can not disagree with the church fathers who decided before already you need to be in church and I think they still think they know if orthodox converts to catholic they can be saved so I thought I should be orthodox until I am proven otherwise that protestant is true and divisions don't matter if God gives me assurance and God can only give assurance to one personally.

 

[mikeforjesus]

Actually I don’t think I would fit in the church as I don’t really think it is truth and God will for me but churches are hindrance from people serving the gospel and made to feel like they are never worthy of salvation. I just said it is as I am discouraged but I will continue to hope and seek others and if not it may not be God will. Maybe God does not will for me to get married if I don’t show that I am worthy of a person to be a good fit for a person to look after them. If I am not spiritually mature enough if God knows I am not to provide for a person then He will hinder it. For is that a valid reason for someone to reject me if a person wants a person their parents think is more ambitious and able to make one happy. I fear facing one parents so I don’t want to even try. Or do people not really need such a person and it is God will for them to accept me and they are rejecting me because of their pride only who say to others keep away from me for I am more holy than you


James 4:1-17
1 Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members? 2 You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet you do not have because you do not ask. 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures. 4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”?
6 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says:
“God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”
Humility Cures Worldliness
7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9 Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom.
10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.
Do Not Judge a Brother
11 Do not speak evil of one another, brethren. He who speaks evil of a brother and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. 12 There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy. Who are you to judge another?
Do Not Boast About Tomorrow
13 Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a city, spend a year there, buy and sell, and make a profit”; 14 whereas you do not know what will happen tomorrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away 15 Instead you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we shall live and do this or that.” 16 But now you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil.
17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.

 

[MisterSmith999]

Not if your "top" choices are Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Both of them believe that baptism is indelible and cannot be repeated. It's only a minority view among Protestants of the Baptist type that the sacrament can be repeated (and ought to be when one's life changes). What the Catholic and Orthodox churches do is administer an additional sacrament, called in the Catholic Church 'Confirmation.'


Honestly, you "talk" as though you are oriented towards the Baptist churches, not the Catholic and Orthodox churches. I am only interested in helping you with you own decision, but are you sure that you have ruled out Protestantism entirely??

Jesus made one body and one church, man-made many churches. God the Father, made Jesus Christ Lord of heaven and earth. Man has raised religious men and idols to take His place. At a time a place of His own choosing Our Lord Jesus will deal with all those who have disobeyed His word and have trampled underfoot His precious blood. Trust not in men but in God.

 

[Albion]

"mikeforjesus" was asking for our advice about which church or denomination would be the best for him to join.

 

[mikeforjesus]

I was actually giving my 2cents as I thought God maybe wanted me to join a church and tell people to join but it is wrong because because if you can’t know for sure that all people must join a church you shouldn’t demand people do and support unfair judgements and divisions. But I want to ask would church help me in seeking after God to have a true encounter with God to be a more fruitful disciple or I should rather seek Him myself first and then be part of a church?

 

[Albion]

But I want to ask would church help me in seeking after God to have a true encounter with God to be a more fruitful disciple

Yes!

or I should rather seek Him myself first and then be part of a church?

Church membership is a matter both of taking advantage of the full range of the Christian experience, as opposed to fending for oneself...but also of doing what the Bible says about it--fellowship, instruction in the faith, participation in the sacraments as Christ directed, conflict resolution, and more.

So here's a suggestion. Attend a church regularly and find out what it's like to be engaged with it. You don't have to hold membership in order to be there for Sunday services or much else; and most congregations won't pressure a regular visitor about why he has yet to join officially.

 

[anna ~ grace]

I think I should join the Orthodox Church and accept it may be the only true church or it could not be but said out of politics recently to make people believe in the church because if others convert to the Catholic Church while there is politics of them not accepting others they may think others are not saved

But it could be the only true church and I seek to be convinced by joining if God can confirm it is the only true church or if it can convince Catholic is too just to feel the presence of God and maybe I will see proofs otherwise I just have to assume it could be only true church. I could also visit the Catholic Church to be convinced of it

It could be there is salvation outside but we have to assume you need the church and it is for me to know more fully

Take things slow. Talk to people. Talk to Orthodox Christians. Talk to Catholic Christians. Be careful of mistaking feelings for God’s leading. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren’t.

Pray. Pray. Pray.

The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox

One Bread, One Body - Catholic

Both of these Churches have some awesome, holy, wise, Godly, humble, Saintly people in them. Both of these Churches have many, many sinful people. It helps to look at ourselves as sinful people striving with God’s help to become holy, more like Him, in Christ. It’s a journey.

Be careful of making this faith journey overly intellectual. The best way to approach Christ and His Church is as a little child, who is always in need of help, grace, learning, and mercy.

 

[mikeforjesus]

I said I would go see an exorcist and I did plan to but I was hesitant to do it for it seems I am harsh and judgemental and betraying others to not trust God is fair and leads all but since I thought to do it I think it seems I should do it because then I seem like I am not doing so only because of others but I wanted to do it to confirm all who see an exorcist will be able to know for sure what the truth is that you can’t deny if such is possible to know for otherwise it would not be fair and it can’t be the truth if not everyone is able to know for certain one truth is true because the bible says God is not willing for any to perish but come to the knowledge of the truth so it must be possible for all to be saved who seek and it is never too late if one turns while he can if he is alive for none die without being given a chance to repent to seek Him but if one seeks Him any time sincerely before he dies and it is not the time of one death he can find and be saved if one is diligent to believe and to repent because with every breath one is called not only to believe but to repent so if one is diligent to seek to repent while he has opportunity and he found repentance which one can at every time it is not too late but if one died without having repented having done the will of God then it is because he didn’t seek diligently while he had chance and that is the time of one death


But the truth to know is always available if one seeks diligently there will always be access so God will make sure if you pray diligently you can find the truth to believe even if you have no access to a bible but if there is access you are expected to read it


But catholic and orthodox can not be true because even if you pray you are not guaranteed to have opportunity to find the truth you need the work of men yet the bible says those who become children of God are not born of the will of man but of God not because of another man



I don’t believe churches are true therefore because I believe if it was some people could lose their opportunity to be saved as if you need to be very well read to know the true path some people who still have time to seek salvation but not much time may not know it as bible says there is no other mediator than Jesus as some services may not be available for some who this moment do have a chance to seek God and follow Him for only God can close the door on person when it is right



I don’t believe any church is correct to teach itself as the only way and to judge others if it can not prove it is the only way


If it it is impossible for some people to be saved if they stay in a location and they could go somewhere else to find the truth for no person to be able to be saved on his death bed who believes he was following Jesus without access to a priest that does not seem right but if it is right that you need the church and it can be too late for all who are on their death bed and can not have access to a priest I don’t think it is true but I don’t know but if a church is true then a person should be able to find the truth when he sees a priest to know for sure the truth so I could go to church to get exorcism I don’t believe a person can know for sure only one path is true so one can show others

For I believe if one followed God before he died it is not too late for them and no matter where one is the truth would be it would not matter to find the truth and unless one died before being given a chance to do the will of God which you actually have to do before you die but one could die without having opportunity to see the right people or priest then the truth would be it does not matter where you are to be able to find the truth.

 

[mikeforjesus]

One does not have to conclude if Jesus started an organisation that it was the Catholic Church because the apostolic fathers may have taught the faith of the Orthodox Church but some changed the faith maybe thinking it was right or deviated from the faith and taught it to others and so there was the Catholic Church and people are not blamed when they can not know the truth about what it was originally but one can claim true church became divided when they started excluding those who do not know the orthodox faith is true but I don’t know who or why orthodox think it is right to require those who were orthodox not to leave the church unless God chose that path for one by putting you in a family that you should not want to cause divisions to judge those in your family who are orthodox or unless a person knows the truth and chooses to fall away or knew it and fell away if ignorance of the truth is caused by falling away and if you return that the truth can be found if one could maybe know orthodox faith is true but that Orthodox Church did not require Catholics to join it but just not to judge Orthodox if they know 100% it is true so those who convert to Orthodox Church are not allowed to become catholic because you don’t know it is not true and you once knew and you may be able to know if you return again

because perhaps the position of the church has to be proven from the apostolic fathers which they never wrote about that division after and even if not and the church is lead to all truth the whole church must agree because it is a truth that if one knows is true is able to prove it to others the church is given proof that all must agree but those who convert to catholic would not care if they really knew Catholic is true


But I believe orthodox can equally claim to be the truth and even that people who were orthodox must remain it but I don’t believe that is fair and that if it was true church it would teach that


For one can claim orthodox is the church because the bible is not so clear that any other apostle needed to be taught by another apostle and that there would be a leader that would guide the whole church as Peter says he is a fellow elder and it was not so clear peter had authority over them that they report to him or that would be the intended plan for the church after

 

[anna ~ grace]

I think, friend, that you should at least look into both the Catholic Church and Orthodoxy. If nothing else you can learn a lot, and maybe even take away some truths, devotions, theology, and understanding that can help you in your own walk with Christ.

At the very least, give yourself permission to ask questions. And talk to Catholic and Orthodox Christians, too. It’s easy to jump all over the place theologically. Take things slow. Pray. Read. Maybe attend Mass or Divine Liturgy as a guest. God be with you, Mike.

 

[mikeforjesus]

Thankyou dear Anna grace

 

[mikeforjesus]

Though I would think baptism should not be essential and I hope so yet I don’t know and I think I should teach people should do it as it may be essential only God knows if it is not required I should teach people should be baptized there is no excuse not to and communion could also be required to have it sometimes to be able to be sanctified so that God sanctifies you from the time you have communion when it is available though not bearing as much fruit if you had it before but still for Christ to be able to work in a person to bear fruit if one had it when it was available so that a person knows that he is sanctified because of Christ blood which remains in one only for those who commune with God and prove they are only able to because of Christ baptism and communion may be a means of strengthening those who have believed to abide in Him that is to truly remain in Him and the belief strongly to be able to defend it if one lacks great faith so one is born of water and the Spirit to be born again Christ enlightens those who believe with greater knowledge to defend the truth if they are baptized.


I think that could be the true teaching of the apostles and maybe catholic and orthodox are both wrong and maybe even not truly representative of early church fathers though I think the early fathers did teach a tradition separate to the apostles which God allowed I think probably because some people might expect a priesthood and because if apostolic fathers taught what it really is people could discount it and disregard them and say only they are truth of early apostles and can claim to be the full truth and so people are settled in a truth the purpose of the apostolic succession was to preserve the teaching of the bible so others are to be held in suspicion and no one is judged for believing differently but those who like to create schism knowingly are not saved because they know the truth and try to make people divided

Well that was the original apostolic fathers other church fathers may have not understood faith properly so thought it was different.


It is up to God if baptism and communion are not required it could be just baptism is required but one should have communion incase it is required they may not even be required but we should follow that


I could follow the Orthodox Church and it may be part of the true church that was established but catholic and orthodox divided it now though orthodox would always be part of the church for even if Jesus made St. Peter head and intended for his successors to be it was never to make him boss but for the sake of a united church that he would help declare the true doctrine but the church is built on the true faith which he is supposed to declare to know more specifics that are not essential which he can but he needs to seek God he does not always and one could confess the true faith in the essentials without the pope and may even get other details right too without the pope but the pope is supposed to help ensure one does or the pope is given a position over the whole church by Jesus but it has to be exercised without supremacy to be able to be the first to declare the true faith just for sake of unity but he does not always and then the church would know and be guided into all truth. Eastern Orthodox teach Rome was given that position as honour they might even believe he represented Peter but they don’t admit the reason that he is the only one that can have that position and that he is still the pope and that they are still part of the church if they don’t believe in serious heresy but they believe one has to return to what church believed. So even though the churches do not teach what they should according to the church fathers they are still the church because of apostolic succession but they have left what the church taught at the beginning and the current leaders or the one after may not agree to schism but there has to be a schism for politics sake as one church judges the other. Because the church may never have been based on the pope being infallible but whole church agreeing so some eastern orthodox leaders currently fell away but not all agree so the church still exists of both as not all agree and some in church do not agree and hold the truth. But I do not think I should follow the church and I think even if they wanted to I don’t think they would be able to know for sure for I don’t believe God reveals such to a pope or church for I don’t believe God wanted to make everyone subject to the church. And I would not follow the church for I don’t accept only catholic and orthodox being saved and believe they are not the truth that God would not exclude and God is fair and accepts all who want to follow Him not knowing the truth and seeks a personal relationship with all and they are a hinderance to people coming to know God and can not be the truth or they would be able to prove they are the only truth so can not actually fulfill successfully the great commission so they can’t be the truth and that is why they tell people they don’t have to preach with words and go preach but with actions so they hinder them from doing so as they know their message should not be preached if one could not convince or it would not be good news

 

[mikeforjesus]

I think since there is no proof that others are saved it is only right to assume there is salvation in the true church. From my studies I atleast believe Catholic is part of the church and I believe it could be the church so I should assume there is salvation only in the Catholic Church. Because I think even if my theories are true they are not proven. If it has not been proven the apostolic fathers met the apostles if they did while the church knew the the truth that Jesus did not start an organisation that is exclusive and such was allowed because people prefer it I should not assume that is true but we have to assume salvation is only in the church.

Therefore I will be a catholic unless it can be proven otherwise. I know I am responsible for potentially making people leave the true church if what I teach is false I guess I can’t risk that so I won’t do it. If I convert to Orthodox Church I am responsible for judging converts to catholic but maybe it is politics and they are still accepted and real church accepts them but we do not know but they should not be worried if they believe in Catholic Church but since it could be true it is maybe better for them to convert so I do not worry if I seek to convert them. So I will be orthodox unless it can be proven to me Catholic is true.

 

[mikeforjesus]

Actually I think it is a mistake to follow any churches and I should trust God for I am convinced we have to be serious that souls are at stake so I won’t

 

[mikeforjesus]

I think it is important to trust God because churches even judge others and that is wrong and God is not confusing and would not allow others to not know where they should be now.

 

[mikeforjesus]

I think I should accept God does not want me to think it is my job to teach something I do not know is true to take upon myself such responsiblity but wants me to teach what I think could be necessary as I understand it what I am able to do and leave it to Him for Him to decide if others are accepted and for others who know the truth to convince.

I preferred not to do the below but I think it is the best option for me to feel I and others have all the support we can to follow Christ but feel like doing it as I feel unlike in Orthodox Church there is not unity of teaching of pastors to let you know your duty and I feel like maybe I can’t guide others as I don’t even know the way myself.

some pastors seem to think other Christians are not following God but I don’t know if they think there is hope for sinners they can’t assure them they can find the way to be saved.

If I had found the way myself been diligent or found ministries that make sense I could encourage them but since I can’t I would like to follow church because even if it is not true but I assume it is I believe God would not require anything from me more than what church teaches as He allowed such churches to exist to trust them and also it seems I should not be Christian without the church as taught by church fathers if I can not be sure of the truth but I would have hoped it may be true and that others can be sure they are following the truth to be saved.


I decided since I have no proof of Catholic Church and am not convinced I should trust the Orthodox Church this could mean as it is true church all are required to join it even Catholics unless they are convinced of Catholic Church or that Catholics only have to join it if they can know for sure Orthodox Church is true and it could be people who were orthodox and left the church not knowing for sure Catholic is true can not be saved if they became catholic but they need to return to Orthodox Church. It could be politics and both churches are accepted but we don’t know we have to trust a church that people need to pick a church they believe is most right. I do not know if God would judge people who accept the Catholic Church because some church fathers taught it and people do not know the position of the early church and it would be judging those church fathers for even believing pope of Rome was to be chosen to be successor of Peter and head of the church even if it is for unity only and to declare the true faith that Rome was chosen because of Peter and apostles taught early church taught Jesus wanted his successors in Rome to represent Peter and not decision of church because of the principal city.

But I suppose one can judge those church fathers if they taught that as they don’t agree earliest apostolic fathers taught that and I may agree with Orthodox Church because I think the bible could teach it and there is no proof earliest churches were ruled by Rome or apostolic fathers taught it and I can believe bible supports orthodoxy more.

So I choose orthodoxy as the way I don’t think it will hurt to join it because it is christian others won’t care anyway to be orthodox if they are convinced Catholic is true but if they convert to orthodox they can be saved.


But it could be orthodoxy is now wrong or I am wrong on some issues about orthodoxy and Orthodox Church would accept those with catholic views maybe even those who convert from orthodox to catholic though I don’t know.

because it could be orthodoxy now is not teaching what it is though it is still church because of apostolic succession and because some hold the faith but many who rule are not teaching what it is but they deviated from orthodox faith by not accepting others or if they had the same faith as ambrose cyprian by not accepting pope as head not because of capital but because Jesus taught it it remains part of the church because criteria for being in the church is if the person faith is right which the pope should declare and was intended to be the spokesman of the faith for the sake of unity of church so church is united he would be the first and only one able to declare the true faith if he was honest so that the church is united but if he does not God will reveal it to the rest of the church which they will be able to know to decide what is reasonable and reasonable people will agree and be in the church because they believe the truth.


I think one can be orthodox if he believes he might need to be to be saved if one does not feel he can know Christ will without a church if no one is showing that he will have guidance as church ensures that there are spiritual guides to guide others to heaven they will be able to say whether one should be a monk and seek spiritual guidance there or if they can repent in the world.

Therefore as far as one does not know there is salvation outside the church I think I should join the church unless I can be sure all people are guided to know the way of salvation.