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I have this feeling I should obey this

Discussion in '"My Two Cents Worth"' started by mikeforjesus, Nov 22, 2020.

  1. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +175
    Christian
    I think I should join the Orthodox Church and accept it may be the only true church or it could not be but said out of politics recently to make people believe in the church because if others convert to the Catholic Church while there is politics of them not accepting others they may think others are not saved

    But it could be the only true church and I seek to be convinced by joining if God can confirm it is the only true church or if it can convince Catholic is too just to feel the presence of God and maybe I will see proofs otherwise I just have to assume it could be only true church. I could also visit the Catholic Church to be convinced of it

    It could be there is salvation outside but we have to assume you need the church and it is for me to know more fully
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
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  2. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +175
    Christian
    Probably I will not but just visit the Catholic Church
     
  3. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

    +5,802
    Australia
    Non-Denom
    Divorced
    If you are born again, you are a member of the true church. God puts us into Christ, not a denomination. Before I knew enough to be programmed by denominationalism, I went to any church that I could. I was in the Navy and I did not have the luxury of picking and choosing. I went to Japan, Hawaii, Singapore, Hong Kong, The Philippines, Thailand, Malaysia and all around Australia. I found that Christians have far more in common than they have differences.

    Don't fall for the religious arrogance of those who claim to be the only real church, as a Southern Baptist told me once. Find a church that has Lord Jesus as its centre. If it is alive in Christ, you will be blessed.
     
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  4. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,679
    United Kingdom
    Non-Denom
    Married
    The church you attend belong to is up to you, but do follow the reasoning of the ' only true church '.
    If that is correct then All other churches and there attendees are false.
    There is no half way position if the Eastern orthodox is the only true church or the Southern Baptists are or any other group are, then everyone else is not a Christian.
     
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  5. coffee4u

    coffee4u Well-Known Member

    +2,032
    Australia
    Christian
    Married
    Those who have confessed and believe are the body of the church. You will find born again believers in every established church, in small home churches and even people who never visit a church.

    Romans 10:9-10 "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

    The church doesn't save you, Jesus does. Churches are just buildings filled with infallible people. Join a church because Jesus is at the centre and you are spiritually fed not because of claims of it being the only true church. Study the scripture and test the spirits always and if you feel drawn to the Eastern orthodox then join, but don't fall into the one true church trap.
     
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  6. Heavenhome

    Heavenhome Well-Known Member Supporter

    +5,231
    Australia
    Christian
    Single
    The only one true Church is the body of true believers and followers of Jesus Christ.

    It was never, nor ever has been in any specific denomination, nor church building.
     
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  7. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +175
    Christian
    It is important we don’t let anything stumble us as it is said in Hebrews 6

    Hebrews 6:1-12
    The Peril of Not Progressing
    1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits.
    4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
    7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
    A Better Estimate
    9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner. 10 For God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister. 11 And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope until the end, 12 that you do not become sluggish, but imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
     
  8. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +175
    Christian
    What if some people find some rest in the grave but do not enter the kingdom
    Yet the wicked have no rest because of what they did to others
    But if you repent of your sins and join the church you can be saved or get some rest
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
  9. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

    +6,832
    Christian
    Single
    John 14:21
    Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.

    Jesus says nothing there about the right church because a church doesnt save you, but keeping Jesus's commandments does. We need to act right, and ask forgiveness when we don't. Or, we simply need to sincerily try to obey Christ.

    As to the Catholic Church, unfortunately I cannot recommend them, as a matter if fact, I would recomnend you stay far away from their church. I have no doubt there is many a sincere Christian in the Catholic churhes, but we must look at what Jesus said, do they keep his commandments?

    Though the Catholic church may appear very pretty and holy on the outside, just rember the child abuse that has gone on on their church. Also, it is clear they bow down to graven images, a blatant breaking of one of the commandments. They love their graven images, but beware, they will attempt to create an explanation for every wrong they do, so don't be fooled.

    The other serios problems like homosexuality, you will need to do your own homework, but dont be fooled by huge buildings, or the holy look of it all, all that is just an outward cover, and it hides many a serious problem.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
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  10. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +175
    Christian
    Some people want to exclude people as though it is ever too late for those who did not join a church to know things definitely. Perhaps it will be too late for us if we don’t just join a church to know so we are survivors of the plagues

    but it seems God would not exclude people who don’t know and this word applies to us all unless it only applies for survivors of the plagues who will then know what is the truth

    Revelations 22:17
    And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.
     
  11. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +175
    Christian
    I have thought the below but I don’t think I could follow the church unless one could be sure such a church is required if one can not I believe it is just politics. Why should we seek the church if you can’t trust that God will reveal the truth in the church or be sure He will teach the truth that it is all politics that all Christians are accepted and He never accepted only those who follow certain men in the way they say who keep faith as it is written the just shall live by faith Jesus can only do works in people of faith. But I thought since we can’t be sure maybe I should submit to the church and tell others to because we only know salvation is in the churches or the true church but I think I should not follow that for as I said God seeks people of faith to do works and if the churches do not guarantee to prove to you they are true I should not stumble others


    I have thought to follow this but I won’t be able to if the church hinders me and does not let me so it may not be the house of God unless I have to keep trying

    But I probably won’t do it as I don’t think God works that way to prove to others

    but God seeks people of faith to do works and I love my dad and if God does not prove to some in the church that it is right for me to be orthodox and if catholics are also saved because I think God should prove to some people who need it then I am not happy to leave my dad because I am hoping God will prove to me if orthodox and catholic is true or which one and then reach my dad or I can but I am worried God will not and also worried God will not prove He did not start a church made of one group and create His church based on apostolic succession and I made a promise to my dad I would submit to God to accept Him with the heart not the mind and trust Him as I submit to Him to teach me the way to not try to say who will be saved or not but trust others salvation in the hands of God

    I do however think I should do so because God may prove to me and some others He calls to the church if I submit to the church and accept its teachings but even not it may be required to join it it could not be so I know people could have cause to hope but it may be and I think perhaps God may prove it is not required or He requires them to have faith if that is true but if it is not true which you can not know but if it is not true perhaps people should join the church because it could be only those in the church can be saved


    I did not mean to write that much but what I initially thought I should follow is the below


    I hope God proves the truth to all of us but I am going to join the Orthodox Church and I encourage all to salvation could also be in Catholic Church if it is merely orthodox politics that some feel they should do or God did not want people to know the truth now but believe it so they don’t judge catholics but if he does and it is required unless truth can not be proven now or not to all then only those to whom it is proven now should join

    But I will also seek the truth in the Catholic Church
     
  12. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +175
    Christian
    I could think to follow this but I don’t think the orthodox are satisfied even with accepting catholics and remaining orthodox just because one has family who believed the orthodox faith so one keeps it because it could be right and since it may be it may not seem proper to leave it

    I am sorry but I think I should follow this if one can not absolutely be sure that he has the truth why do we take risk ? I know Jesus said call no one on earth your teacher but how do we know Jesus does not mean only if you know what they teach contradicts the word of God. For those in the church are supposed to love others to join the church and there is no excuse for that the apostolic fathers did not teach not to. One could be fine without the church but how do we know irenaeus claims polycarp who was a disciple of St. John taught him and we can not prove it is wrong the problem is he seemed to have believed sacraments are essential and anyone who has sacraments in any gathering where people were not directly appointed by apostles is sinning. He could be a liar but how do we know or someone else may have invented his words or God allowed that tradition to confuse those who don’t come to Him to find out the full truth that He allowed it. But if He didn’t allow it should we not join the church to be sure ?

    I just don’t feel like being without the church as maybe I can’t feel that I will be strong enough to endure some trials and I feel my actions are stumbling blocks such as feeling I can not survive without food that I should walk on foot to the supermarket as I don’t have a car right now as I took it to smash repair. As I don’t have the peace of God I seek temporary things to fill me. I feel I let down those who stumble to see me on the street

    and I worry they rejoice to trample on me. Atleast if I had the church I can feel I can be protected. And I will no longer have God blasphemed by my actions. I do not want to offend fellow catholic and orthodox. I suppose others need to join the church. It’s just that I worry many by my actions mock me as weak and may think I don’t think they need to repent or do not care to stumble them. I only want to be orthodox because I no longer feel I can convict all to repent and worry I stumbled some on street to lose faith though it may be everyone is still responsible for themselves they know what is preached but now I only want to save myself and those willing to listen to convert to church


    I am hesitant to follow it because I don’t want it to be true and I want to seek answers from God but since it could be required maybe I should though others may need to do so more urgently though it could be urgent for me too


    church could make sense that only those who had all their chances while alive and are capable to respond now need to but others such as Alzheimer patients can get their chance afterwards

    I believe I should be orthodox also accepting catholic but I should be orthodox as my family is and I can’t prove Catholicism is right. As long as I can not prove orthodox is the only true church I assume God accepted catholic because divisions were caused by people in the beginning and one may not know the truth anymore. It is good only for those who know the truth to join but it may not be required. God does not want to judge those who don’t know by ignorance if such truth is not known. Or maybe those only are required to join the church only who know. Maybe God did not make it possible to know now so as not to judge catholics because division was made in the church by some others before and God does not want people to be arrogant to believe salvation is only for those who believed the orthodox position. But I suppose still if the orthodox position can be proven people are required to join
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2020
  13. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +175
    Christian
    It is clear to me churches are just politics each wanting one to accept its claims even though one can not know for sure. I trust the word of God that God allowed tradition to exist because He knew divisions would exist so it had to exist from the beginning because groups could claim to be the only groups with authority of apostles or the only right group. So people have to accept each other with the word of God. We must beware of accepting lies that later sear our conscience knowing it is wrong and rightly handle the word of truth. People must not allow lawlessness because of not having faith to not tolerate things they don’t like to make their love grow cold and doubt themselves but need to instead be the salt of the earth. To win souls and not let others be discouraged from our own lukewarmness to defend the truth
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2020
  14. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +175
    Christian
    We should demand absolute assurance we are in the truth and have all the graces to be saved. I however do not want to judge and so will not follow it but trust Christ is simple as I don’t think He came to turn anyone away who would believe in Him and want to follow Him and the light. I only wanted to post this as I would prefer we can prove it for sure and to have good reason why I don’t have to be part of a church. I don’t think God would require all people to join a church for there could be many reasons people who had access to churches would not join or stay for churches often are stumbling blocks and make people doubt they can have relation with Christ and know Him personally. Christ wanted people to know Him personally and not need another and that may be why He went to the Samaritan woman He wanted to give her the Holy Spirit so that that would be all one needs one would not need to go to a temple anymore to have one sins forgiven or to confess. Or any location such as needing to go to another but we always have access into His presence for wisdom. As James says if anyone lacks wisdom let him ask of God who gives to all liberally without reproach

    I am satisfied we have the truth now if anyone wants to join a church he can

    for He is meant to be the one who can guide for salvation and not worry always that a priest needs to guide you and not trust you can’t know the way without Him

    for churches are not always stable and Christ wouldn’t want periods of confusion about doctrine such as people not admitting unbaptised babies do not go to hell in the sense of having any suffering

    I think churches may not be completely accurate for God never meant the apostles to be anything but ministers through whom they believed and to set the foundations of churches that would follow as they heard from the Lord

    1 John 2:27
    But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

    Apparently the east and west only schismed in the 10th century but it may not be the opinion of all the church so it is not valid. The pope may have been a first among equals in the sense of if he is wrong one stays with the truth whenever he correctly exercised his gift the truth was known that all the orthodox should accept because it would be orthodox. It was only his faith that people had to accept if it was orthodox. Unless Catholic can prove they are completely only truth which does not seem possible as I don’t think you can conclude that from the bible but if they can some other way then I would rather be orthodox as my family is but I think one can choose to be catholic to trust them that it is true and it gives life unless one is sure orthodoxy is the only truth. Or he can choose to be orthodox and seek if catholic is true or wish to accept both but if such beliefs are not even tolerated even though condemned currently in the church why be so

    I only wanted to be orthodox because I want to be sure of strength to endure any trials and to be sure of feeling Christ presence in my life which I felt before
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2020
  15. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +175
    Christian
    It seems possible orthodoxy is the truth because it has the grace of the sacraments to live in Christ if Catholicism can not prove it is the only truth it probably isn’t though it could be I will be orthodox because my family is but others can be catholic. Unless orthodox can prove it is the only church people may not be required to join it. One can go to Orthodox Church to seek.


    I would want proof of Protestantism I don’t want to say that but as far as I can not prove Protestantism is true I think if we can’t be assured it seems wise to join a church. But there could be many people in the church who want to control and hinder people. To tell you you can not be saved if you don’t do something they want that is not realistic. Confession should be obey them only if what they say is realistic and not a sin. They make people feel like they are never good enough to be saved and hinder them from knowing what is required to do to be saved. They become the deciders if you have done enough to be saved or not. They can show partiality. And condemn those who do not allow their life to be controlled by their demands who may simply be stronger to do works and may even take up such positions so as to not to serve but to exclude others and they expect one to be like them if they are not successful which hinders people from doing what they are supposed to in the world rather than the works of men so as to make people not want to be Christian


    Therefore one should only go to confession for advice if it is godly but the Holy Spirit is in one to teach one as long as one is involved in the life of the church and the sacraments God will be showing one and they are supposed to just be helpers for the work of God

    I may not follow this right now because I want to look for a convenient time to make my dad understand why I am choosing to involve with the church and if there is still now opportunity to involve with the church
     
  16. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +175
    Christian
    I think God wants us to live by faith that He accepts all believers I only try to teach the church because it claims to be necessary and because there might be a possibility of discovering it is the only truth and people might need it before death because I know I could search to see if it is true one day so I encourage all to but it may not even be possible to know it is certainly the only truth. The bible said some test those who say they are apostles they claim to be equal to the apostles and have found them liars. I don’t say the people now are liars for God may support them for the sake of those they minister to but they can find the doctrine is a lie. There are some who had evil intention. I am not saying the apostolic fathers are liars though they could be or they may be liars but such lies were allowed by God so as not to make them accountable for they did not have evil intention. But it is better one can prove such doctrine is not of God so they are liars whether allowed by God or not
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
  17. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +175
    Christian
    But as far as it can not be proved they are liars should not one submit to a church they think is true or to search which is true? Obviously since one can not know which is true orthodoxy or catholicism I think it is wise for me to join the Orthodox Church because my family is and I can search if Catholicism is true and take part in the life of their church also but first of all take part in the life of orthodoxy. Others can be orthodox also if they are not fully convinced everyone has to acknowledge the pope as head and teacher of the faith to accept his teachings will not lead one astray if said from his chair I know if the papacy is true I do not think the Catholic Church leads people astray from its teachings though it could if papacy is not true and before the west believed or the east had some who believed one should not condemn the catholic church and believed the pope is the one to teach but he does not always teach right but when one teaches right one must accept. As an orthodox I should trust in it for salvation as my family is orthodox and I think orthodoxy may be true. Others can be orthodox like me if they are not willing to trust catholicism is the truth and has the grace of true sacraments. I myself think there is a possibility orthodoxy was never forced in the early church as God allowed it not to be forced with the divisions so as not to judge those who never knew because God did not care if people knew only not to cause divisions when you know or the west before did not require orthodox to have the pope as their head to accept all its teachings but the truth when he teaches the truth which only he can but he does not always
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
  18. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +175
    Christian
    I think God wants me to submit to Him. And it is required of me to trust God allowed those divisions for a reason and it is possible the apostolic fathers are liars that I have to accept that as a possibility though it could be He just allowed those divisions for a reason. I could still go to the Catholic Church if I can find out proof of it. But I think it is wise for people to accept Catholic Church just in case though it may not be true unless one is orthodox and one is not sure it is true because I think people should trust God would not require one to be orthodox if one can not prove but he can be orthodox if he wants to or is sure it is not true just to see if they can find life in it. One can choose to be orthodox and visit Catholic Church and take part in its life and accept catholicism at the end if he is convinced and he doesn’t want to trust orthodoxy but I don’t think I should teach that it is essential because I don’t think it is. I assume salvation is for all Christians and I follow that
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
  19. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +175
    Christian
    God is not the author of confusion it is men who are and He knew people would cause divisions so He let such divisions exist from the beginning. His word can be believed. I am going to trust God offered Himself for all to have a personal relationship with Him. That God wants to be shepherd and lead people in His ways to follow Him because all Christians need to be seeking to obey His word and find opportunities to. All people need to have God as their shepherd by personally reading the bible and communing with God to find opportunities to apply it no matter what church they follow. And I believe God works in all. I shall submit to God and trust God that God looks after us but others can join a church if they think it is necessary but I believe I should not judge any believer who is following God. I think I need to trust that God would not judge people just for not choosing a church which one believes is probably not just to exclude people and one can not have proof it is essential I believe He is kinder than that and if it was essential He would prove it I will not support such divisions
     
  20. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +175
    Christian
    Maybe I don’t have to go by faith alone but I think it is sufficient for we all can have faith and hope that God will accept everyone who wishes to repent and follow Him. For we choose to believe He does not turn any away who repent and follow Him. If people do not believe they can join a church

    But maybe God can reveal more God says in the bible if you seek me diligently you will find me.

    Jesus said seek and you will find

    If people don’t seek Him diligently they will always be limited by their past understanding or faith without knowledge.They have to go by faith or join a church

    Therefore they have the reward who find the truth and can share it with others maybe not greater reward than others for it is what we should be doing to share Christ. We only need to be faithful on what we know but the more we learn we are more profitable so are given the reward of the master joy for people saved and all should be happy for all are supposed to want all saved and they are working towards that but one can help others if one preaches what is right and convinces. You can’t give your faith to others for God has made it that further objections will pop up that really don’t have merit to the one who does not believe or is not ready to believe which could be answered but it requires ones own self to seek. People are to build up their faith personally. One can answer their questions but they will never be satisfied but want more because they don’t want to trust

    but if they are seeking they can find and may come across people who share

    Jesus says if you abide in My word you will ask what you desire and it will be granted

    And he who keeps my commandments which is the means we seek Him by turning away from our sins and praying God will manifest Himself
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2020
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