I hate when people take simple scripture and interpret it to mean what they want

[andreha]

Perhaps a better view is to accept that it's the sinner that keeps herself out of the Kingdom of God. God is unyielding to sin and if an individual refuses to follow the lead of the Holy Spirit and is in rebellion, how can such a person be allowed entry?

Edit: Sermon on the Mt, Matt. 5,6,and 7. Be like a little child in receiving correction, etc.

Nicely put, bro. The lead of the Spirit.

 

[Sabertooth]

Here is a skit related to the OP,

The Roncoe Bible, Mitch & Allen Live (1983)

(We saw them back then.)​

 

[Hazelelponi]

The title says it all. I just listened to a sermon about the verse where Jesus says "unless you forgive others your Heavenly Father will not forgive you" and then proceeded to say "That might sound like if you don't forgive others you're going to hell, but I think it means this..."

Like bro Jesus literally simplified it to forgive or you won't be forgiven, that's what it means it's not some complicated thing that cannot be comprehended or needs 10 years of study in the greek to truly translate it better than experts who translate scripture and is their job.

Just wanted to vent my frustration when people overcomplicate scripture that is very simply put.

While there is danger in over complicating Scripture, the same danger exists for under complicating it too (taking verses completely out of context etc).

There's generally a happy medium that's the correct place.

 

[Sabertooth]

While there is danger in over complicating Scripture, the same danger exists for under complicating it too (taking verses completely out of context etc).

I have seen both, too.

Scripture interprets Scripture.

Some people read Matt. 26:52 and take away,
"No swords, EVER...!"

When they read Rom. 13:4, they should conclude that the former meant,
"No swords, TODAY...!"

 

[Norbert L]

The title says it all. I just listened to a sermon about the verse where Jesus says "unless you forgive others your Heavenly Father will not forgive you" and then proceeded to say "That might sound like if you don't forgive others you're going to hell, but I think it means this..."

Like bro Jesus literally simplified it to forgive or you won't be forgiven, that's what it means it's not some complicated thing that cannot be comprehended or needs 10 years of study in the greek to truly translate it better than experts who translate scripture and is their job.

Just wanted to vent my frustration when people overcomplicate scripture that is very simply put.

Without knowing more I would say if that was an intro to a sermon, they aren't explaining it well at all.

To quote and paraphrase an alternative intro:

"unless you forgive others your Heavenly Father will not forgive you" and then proceeded to say "That might sound like if you don't forgive others you're going to hell, but <snip> this..." other scripture says, "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld." John 20:23

So ask yourself. What does this do to the idea that if you don't forgive others you're going to hell? Is it not at least some indication that as a Christian the person has the option not to forgive? That not forgiving someone else isn't a ticket to hell?

From what I understand, it isn't so much what you say, it's how you say it, that can make a difference for the other person hearing it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Ya I mean I don't think ALL scripture is simple, there is a time and place to interpret to better understand, I've just had a lot of frustration with people basically turning scripture into whatever they want it to mean instead of the true meaning of it

I agree. I think many do this because they hold to a sin and still be saved type view of Soteriology.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I have seen both, too.

Scripture interprets Scripture.

Some people read Matt. 26:52 and take away,
"No swords, EVER...!"

Yes, I believe that the Lord and His followers taught Non-Resistance under the New Covenant. Check out this thread here for the verses (if you are interested).

Nonresistance as Taught in the New Testament is Moral and Good.

When they read Rom. 13:4, they should conclude that the former meant,
"No swords, TODAY...!"

I believe Romans 13:14 is talking about the unbelieving governments that use the sword, and it is not referring to believers.

 

[Sabertooth]

Yes, I believe that the Lord and His followers taught Non-Resistance under the New Covenant. Check out this thread here for the verses (if you are interested).

Nonresistance as Taught in the New Testament is Moral and Good.



I believe Romans 13:14 is talking about the unbelieving governments that use the sword, and it is not referring to believers.

You haven't considered Christian police officers or Christians in other security capacities.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You haven't considered Christian police officers or Christians in other security capacities.

Yes, but these organizations are not Christian based entirely, and that does not mean all Christians are obeying our Lord's teachings always. Granted, I know in the past: A Christian has served in the military and he did not take up violence against another. We see this in the true to life story made into a film called Hacksaw Ridge.

Note: While the movie correctly portrays a real life Christian following the teachings of Non-Resistance taught by our Lord and His followers, I do not agree with SDA churches other beliefs (Which is not pushed in the film). Note: I do not agree with SDA's promotion of the Saturday Sabbath command (Colossians 2:16), and in their following the teachings of Ellen G. White, that are extremely heretical in my view).

 

[Sabertooth]

Yes, but these organizations are not Christian based entirely, and that does not mean all Christians are obeying our Lord's teachings always.

When correct, "...he is God’s minister,..." Romans 13:4 NKJV

 

[Bible Highlighter]

"...he is God’s minister,..." Romans 13:4 NKJV

Romans 13:4 ties back to verse 1. Romans 13:1 is referring to the higher powers or governments. No government today is actually truly Christian.

In fact, God used both Assyria and Babylon to punish His people. So we can see that these nations were God's ministers of justice (Which would be in line with what is said in Romans 13).

 

[hedrick]

Unfortunately many passages are relevant to a topic like salvation. So taking one in isolation can be misleading. Jesus is asked specifically what is needed to be saved. He gives two different answers. One time it's the 10 commandments. Another it is love God and your neighbor. Those answers are related, because love for God and neighbor summarizes the law. Jesus is also big on God forgiving us. So it's likely a mistake to suggest that one instance of failing to forgive damns you. Forgiveness is, however, part of loving God and neighbor, so I think it's right to consider it part of salvation.

But how do you deal with the fact that for Paul, and I think also John, following Jesus is a matter of faith. What do we say about people who have faith in Christ but don't forgive people? Or people who forgive, love God and neighbor, but don't have faith in Christ?

I don't think these questions are so easy to answer. I have my own answers, but they're not the result of simply taking one passage and reading it straightforwardly.

 

[.Jeremiah.]

The title says it all. I just listened to a sermon about the verse where Jesus says "unless you forgive others your Heavenly Father will not forgive you" and then proceeded to say "That might sound like if you don't forgive others you're going to hell, but I think it means this..."

Like bro Jesus literally simplified it to forgive or you won't be forgiven, that's what it means it's not some complicated thing that cannot be comprehended or needs 10 years of study in the greek to truly translate it better than experts who translate scripture and is their job.

Just wanted to vent my frustration when people overcomplicate scripture that is very simply put.

People do that all the time.
People have done it through all time.

That is why the Jewish church collapsed.

That is why the Christian church has collapsed.

It’s a simple reason. A person has some “bad” desire, such as a desire to control other people, and maybe another desire for greed.

Very easy to satisfy those evil desires. Preach fear and hate, throw in a few verses completely mangled and misinterpreted, and start asking for donations from the sheeple. So that “you”, the self appointed know it all, can help to correct the alleged problems.
This describes televangelists and most sects of Christianity.

 

[.Jeremiah.]

Unfortunately many passages are relevant to a topic like salvation. So taking one in isolation can be misleading. Jesus is asked specifically what is needed to be saved. He gives two different answers. One time it's the 10 commandments. Another it is love God and your neighbor. Those answers are related, because love for God and neighbor summarizes the law. Jesus is also big on God forgiving us. So it's likely a mistake to suggest that one instance of failing to forgive damns you. Forgiveness is, however, part of loving God and neighbor, so I think it's right to consider it part of salvation.

But how do you deal with the fact that for Paul, and I think also John, following Jesus is a matter of faith. What do we say about people who have faith in Christ but don't forgive people? Or people who forgive, love God and neighbor, but don't have faith in Christ?

I don't think these questions are so easy to answer. I have my own answers, but they're not the result of simply taking one passage and reading it straightforwardly.

I like how you think.
I’m confident I would find it rewarding to hear your answers.

 

[hedrick]

In answer to the OP, let me talk just about not being saved. Most of the NT talks about what we should do. There's no explicit discussion of just how God will decide who isn't saved. The most explicit discussions of judgement seen to be 1 Cor 15 and the Revelation. In both of those we have clear enemies of God who are destroyed. But imperfect Christians (and even non-Christians who aren't real enemies) aren't really covered, though the Rev is more hard-line.

We do have a few statements about specific things. The statement that God won't forgive us if we don't forgive others is one of the few in the Gospels. There are plenty of examples in Jesus' teachings of people who are judged. The most common bases are rejecting the Gospel and abusing others. But those examples don't quite let us establish clear criteria for where God draws the line between imperfect followers and enemies. Paul lists fatal sins in 1 Cor 6:9 and Gal 5:21, but if you put those lists together, it's hard for many people to claim that they're not on the list at least once.

That means that we need to read these statements together with God's desire to forgive us. At times people have tried to say that the sin lists apply only if you don't repent and stop sinning. But many of the things in Paul's lists are not individual acts but things that are likely to be ongoing. Look at "enmities, strife, jealousy, anger, quarrels, dissensions, factions, envy". I question whether anyone has successfully permanently avoided everything in his lists. Is the same true of Mat 6:15? I would hope so. I read these statements as "this is inconsistent with being a Christian," as a warning to stop it, but not an explicit statement that everyone who fails to forgive anyone is damned.

See also Mat 18:23 ff (parable of the unmerciful servant). The principle that you should forgive if you want to be forgiven is certainly from Jesus. I just hope that God judges our overall intent, and that he will forgive failures, even failures in forgiveness.

 

[BibleBeliever1611]

The best example of this is "faith without works is dead"

 

[d taylor]

The title says it all. I just listened to a sermon about the verse where Jesus says "unless you forgive others your Heavenly Father will not forgive you" and then proceeded to say "That might sound like if you don't forgive others you're going to hell, but I think it means this..."

Like bro Jesus literally simplified it to forgive or you won't be forgiven, that's what it means it's not some complicated thing that cannot be comprehended or needs 10 years of study in the greek to truly translate it better than experts who translate scripture and is their job.

Just wanted to vent my frustration when people overcomplicate scripture that is very simply put.

Not sure what the person was saying, you were listening to, but if you are adding in that a person is going to hell because God will not forgive them because they did not forgive. Then you are doing the same as the person you are judging
Because there is nothing in Matthew 6:14 about a person going to hell.

This verse in Matthew is addressed to believers. It is addressed for the believer for discipleship in a believers life.

 

[Danthemailman]

Interpreting scripture to mean what you want is called 'eisegesis.' This is how certain people try to force scripture to accommodate a preconceived belief or biased church doctrine.

 

[Marumorose]

The title says it all. I just listened to a sermon about the verse where Jesus says "unless you forgive others your Heavenly Father will not forgive you" and then proceeded to say "That might sound like if you don't forgive others you're going to hell, but I think it means this..."

Like bro Jesus literally simplified it to forgive or you won't be forgiven, that's what it means it's not some complicated thing that cannot be comprehended or needs 10 years of study in the greek to truly translate it better than experts who translate scripture and is their job.

Just wanted to vent my frustration when people overcomplicate scripture that is very simply put.

May God bless You. The statements actually mean the same thing. If God does not forgive you for your sins, you will not receive God's mercy and you will end up in Hell.

 

[hedrick]

Not sure what the person was saying, you were listening to, but if you are adding in that a person is going to hell because God will not forgive them because they did not forgive. Then you are doing the same as the person you are judging
Because there is nothing in Matthew 6:14 about a person going to hell.

This verse in Matthew is addressed to believers. It is addressed for the believer for discipleship in a believers life.

I can understand the reasoning. If God doesn’t forgive us, where does that leave us?