I had a dream about the Rapture. Does it mean anything?

[Goodbook]

Someones been reading Left behind books and watching left behind movies?

I don't have any dreams like that.
But I always wonder about the mark of the beast. It might be a tattoo or a laser thing. Since many people are on Facebook or other social media where they need a profile photo and bank account, which they can't buy or sell without, It seems to me one day with those pay-wave chips we'll have those electronic bracelets in the hand and also those 'google glass' on the forehead, and anyone that does not have it, well, has no money so will get the chop. And it's very easy to convince people to get it these days because most everyone wants money, thinking they can't live without it.

 

[athrun5]

And you think that type of suffering God spoke of refers to Christians having to die in the Great Tribulation?

How does those scriptures apply to Christians living 100 years ago and further back in past who will never go through the Great Tribulation ahead?

By your understanding, how will people in the past go through the Great tribulation in the future?

No, Suffering is apart of being Christian. Jesus told us that if we were to follow him we to would have to drink from the cup of suffering that he drank. He said that when he was talking to Peter. So dying for your faith in Jesus Christ is not only in the tribulation but all the time.

Let me guess. You didn't know new people will turn to Christ during the Great Tribulation? It never dawned on you it could mean these new Christians?

I am assuming you are unaware that Matthew 13 Parable of the wheat and the weeds and what it means. God uses things we are familiar with on earth so we can understand his ways.
This Parable says that a Farmer(God) planted Seed(Us) and at night a enemy(devil) came and placed weeds in his field(earth). The servants(angels) asked if they should remove the weeds and the Farmer said no or it may up root the wheat. So harvest them together and when the time came they bundled up the weeds and throw it into the fire(wrath). The wheat was placed in the barn(Heaven).

It never said anything like they will plant more seed after it is harvested.
Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jesus said After the tribulation we will be raptured see.

No it doesn't. The only one protected during the Great Tribulation are the 144,000. If you don't believe that, then why would God seal this group of people? They are the only ones guaranteed to survive, no one else.

By your understanding, the 2.3 billions of Christians on earth will be sealed too? I think not.

Do you think every person who calls themselfs Christian is saved. Jesus said that people will be bounding on the door to be let in saying that they did miracles and cast out demons in his name. Jesus would then say to them I don't know you. So calling yourself a Christian is not salvation but repenting and trusting Jesus is the only way to go to heaven.

2.3 billion then drops into the millions and then the question is out of those 2.3 billion how many are left...... who are True believers. As for the seal, not to sure 144,000 is being sealed from the tribes of Israel but weather we get sealed to I don't know. I also don't think we need to be. As I said above the tribulation is aimed at who dwell on the earth, those who call this there home aka unbelievers.

You won't believe me no matter what I say here, The question is this if you are wrong about what you believe, can you full heartedly die for Christ if this is happens?

 

[TPeterY]

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jesus said After the tribulation we will be raptured see.

Here read this about Matthew 24:29-31. Post #33 http://www.christianforums.com/t7839006-4/

Jesus already explained at the end of Matthew 23 what the gathering is.

Plus there's also a resurrection at the end tribulation of those that died during the great tribulation (2nd half) to the Antichrist that preached the gospel and were beheaded. Only they will get resurrected.

This passage alone makes it completely illogical that the rapture would happen at the end because that would mean two resurrection at the end of the tribulation.

Revelation 20:4 (CEV)
I saw thrones, and sitting on those thrones were the ones who had been given the right to judge. I also saw the souls of the people who had their heads cut off because they had told about Jesus and preached God’s message. They were the same ones who had not worshiped the beast or the idol, and they had refused to let its mark be put on their hands or foreheads. They will come to life and rule with Christ for a thousand years.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/revelation/20-4-compare.html




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[athrun5]

Jesus already explained at the end of Matthew 23 what the gathering is.

In Matthew 23 at 37-39 he was talking about after the tribulation where the Jewish people acknowledge Jesus as God and then he comes back

for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!

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Plus there's also a resurrection at the end tribulation of those that died during the great tribulation (2nd half) to the Antichrist that preached the gospel and were beheaded. Only they will get resurrected.

Well there are 2 resurrections, 1 after the tribulation and 1 after the reign of Christ. It just as you said that the people who die in the tribulation do get to live in the 1000 year reign.

This passage alone makes it completely illogical that the rapture would happen at the end because that would mean two resurrection at the end of the tribulation.

Revelation 20:4 (CEV)
I saw thrones, and sitting on those thrones were the ones who had been given the right to judge. I also saw the souls of the people who had their heads cut off because they had told about Jesus and preached God’s message. They were the same ones who had not worshiped the beast or the idol, and they had refused to let its mark be put on their hands or foreheads. They will come to life and rule with Christ for a thousand years.

I don't see where you think the first resurrection is, but the one after the tribulation would be number one since the ones that died during the tribulation reign with Christ for the 1000 years.

There is no pre tribulation rapture because of the fact that we are to undergo persecution and death because of our faith. Your faith in Jesus has taught us this for a long time, people are dying all the time for there faith. If he didn't want that to happen he would either make it not happen or he would remove us from it before it happens but instead he tells us to rejoice in our suffering, that for joining with Christ we also join in his suffering.

There is no scripture to prove we go before the tribulation.

 

[Jerico Miles]

No, Suffering is apart of being Christian. Jesus told us that if we were to follow him we to would have to drink from the cup of suffering that he drank. He said that when he was talking to Peter. So dying for your faith in Jesus Christ is not only in the tribulation but all the time.

Do you understand the difference between going through persecutions in life as a Christian vs going through God's wrath during Daniel's 70th week?

Christ said we will have persecutions in everyday life because of this world. Our persecutions come from man, not the wrath of God. Christ said He will deliver us before God pours out His wrath upon the world.

Now do you know the difference because everyday persecution from man compared to God's wrath that will happen during the Great Tribulation?

I am assuming you are unaware that Matthew 13 Parable of the wheat and the weeds and what it means. God uses things we are familiar with on earth so we can understand his ways.
This Parable says that a Farmer(God) planted Seed(Us) and at night a enemy(devil) came and placed weeds in his field(earth). The servants(angels) asked if they should remove the weeds and the Farmer said no or it may up root the wheat. So harvest them together and when the time came they bundled up the weeds and throw it into the fire(wrath). The wheat was placed in the barn(Heaven).

It never said anything like they will plant more seed after it is harvested.
Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jesus said After the tribulation we will be raptured see.

The parable of the wheat and tare of Matthew 13 is the second half of the tribulation when Christ judges the world. Matthew 24:29-31 is not the rapture and already proven. It's Christ returning to shepherd His flock.

Both have NOTHING to do soliciting the Church to go through the tribulation and die.

This is just bad argument, poor logic, terrible understanding of scripture and absolutely false preaching.

You won't believe me no matter what I say here, The question is this if you are wrong about what you believe, can you full heartedly die for Christ if this is happens?

Here's a better question. Would you die for satan, a false christ, or a false prophet?

There's nothing I would not do for God if He asked me, even to die. But I know that's not what He wants from me because I'm wise enough to know my God loves us unconditionally, obedient enough to listen to His words and test the spirits for truth, and smart to recognize another brother when he's under the grips of the devil with his head messed around in deception.

1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

1 John 4:1-3
1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

2 John 1:7
For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.


You need to get into a real relation with God and get to know Him. You're just not seeing His love. It's insulting to Him and His children to think He would be the type of Father that would kill His children during His wrath in the great tribulation.


Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

 

[athrun5]

Do you understand the difference between going through persecutions in life as a Christian vs going through God's wrath during Daniel's 70th week?

Christ said we will have persecutions in everyday life because of this world. Our persecutions come from man, not the wrath of God. Christ said He will deliver us before God pours out His wrath upon the world.

Now do you know the difference because everyday persecution from man compared to God's wrath that will happen during the Great Tribulation?

Education time



Revelations 14:14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

This is the rapture in the book of revelations 14:14 and notice at verse 19 says how the angel gathers the grapes of the earth aka unbelievers and sends them into the wine press of God's Wrath. You will likely say the tribulation has started or something yet till this point maybe. However this is the rapture this is after the tribulation and this is where God's wrath falls upon the earth.

The tribulation is not wrath.

The parable of the wheat and tare of Matthew 13 is the second half of the tribulation when Christ judges the world. Matthew 24:29-31 is not the rapture and already proven. It's Christ returning to shepherd His flock.

Both have NOTHING to do soliciting the Church to go through the tribulation and die.

This is just bad argument, poor logic, terrible understanding of scripture and absolutely false preaching.

You don't seem to have any understanding when it comes to the tribulation.
It goes like this The tribulation -> Rapture -> Wrath of God -> Defeat of the antichrist -> 1000 year reign -> Christ Judges all -> Forever after.
Also do remember Jesus did say after the tribulation which everyone seems to over look to empower there pre-trib idea.

Here's a better question. Would you die for satan, a false christ, or a false prophet?

There's nothing I would not do for God if He asked me, even to die. But I know that's not what He wants from me because I'm wise enough to know my God loves us unconditionally, obedient enough to listen to His words and test the spirits for truth, and smart to recognize another brother when he's under the grips of the devil with his head messed around in deception.

Just wondering what would happen if you believed so much in a pre trib rapture and it doesn't happen and you end up having to die for Christ. You said your willing but would your mental state be able to handle the fact that you believed full heartily that you were to be raptured before but now you know you aren't......

1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

1 John 4:1-3
1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

2 John 1:7
For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.


You need to get into a real relation with God and get to know Him. You're just not seeing His love. It's insulting to Him and His children to think He would be the type of Father that would kill His children during His wrath in the great tribulation.

I got a good relationship.... Well it could be better but lets face it everyone doesn't have the 100% most perfect relationship with God. It can always become better, once again tribulation isn't his wrath proven with revelations 14:19. However if you think that God wouldn't let his Children die well then that's problem since millions have died for Christ and took in the cup of suffering he promised.....

 

[Goodbook]

I am going through tribulation right now.

 

[TPeterY]

Well there are 2 resurrections, 1 after the tribulation and 1 after the reign of Christ. It just as you said that the people who die in the tribulation do get to live in the 1000 year reign.

Revelation 20:4 (CEV)
I saw thrones, and sitting on those thrones were the ones who had been given the right to judge. I also saw the souls of the people who had their heads cut off because they had told about Jesus and preached God’s message. They were the same ones who had not worshiped the beast or the idol, and they had refused to let its mark be put on their hands or foreheads. They will come to life and rule with Christ for a thousand years.

Do you understand Rev 20:4 at all?

1) This is a separate resurrection.
2) Only those that were beheaded in the tribulation will be resurrected. Not those dead in Christ prior to the tribulation.
3) This resurrection happens at the end of the tribulation.
4) If the rapture also happen at the end, that would mean two resurrection at the end of the tribulation.
5) This is completely illogical. Why would there need to be two resurrections at the end.


.
No. There's more than 2 resurrections. A total of 5 resurrections.

1) Christ resurrected 2000 years ago.
2) Rapture of the Church
3) Two witnesses at the middle of the tribulation
4) Rev 20:4 at the end of the tribulation for those that died of beheading during the tribulation.
5) All others not in Christ before the Great White Throne Judgement at the end of the millennium before God.

I don't see where you think the first resurrection is, but the one after the tribulation would be number one since the ones that died during the tribulation reign with Christ for the 1000 years.

John's interpretation of the first resurrection is not literal. If you take it literally, the first resurrection happened 2000 years ago with Christ. Excluding the rapture, the two witnesses get resurrected in the middle of the tribulation. So he wasn't being literal.

John's usage of the term 1st Resurrection in Rev 20:5 refers to the resurrection of all dead in Christ before the millennium to stand before Christ to be rewarded.

The 2nd Resurrection is the resurrection of all non-dead in Christ to stand before God to be judge at the Great White Throne Judgement.

There is no scripture to prove we go before the tribulation.

You don't see them because you're not as guided as you think. Too much worldly knowledge, no spiritual wisdom.

1 Timothy 6:20-21 (NKJV)
20) O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge— 21) by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith. Grace be with you. Amen.


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1 Corinthians 15:23-24 (ERV)
23) But everyone will be raised to life in the right order. Christ was first to be raised. Then, when Christ comes again, those who belong to him will be raised to life. 24) Then the end will come. Christ will destroy all rulers, authorities, and powers. Then he will give the kingdom to God the Father.

Order of events: Rapture > Tribulation > Armageddon > Millennium

1) when Christ comes again, those who belong to him will be raised to life = Rapture

2) Then the end will come = Tribulation

3) Christ will destroy all rulers, authorities, and powers = Armageddon

4) Then he will give the kingdom to God the Father = Millennium

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+cor+15%3A23-24&version=ERV

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Addition scriptures:

Post #11 http://www.christianforums.com/t7842211-2/

Post #41 http://www.christianforums.com/t7842211-5/

Post #50 http://www.christianforums.com/t7839441-5/#post66258713

Post #26 http://www.christianforums.com/t7842211-3/


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If you feel like debating prophecy, feel free to join me. http://www.christianforums.com/f14/


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[Jerico Miles]

Education time

HA!!! Sounds like you're the one that needs an education. You certainly don't seem to know when the rapture is unless you think there's two raptures.

This is the rapture in the book of revelations 14:14 and notice at verse 19 says how the angel gathers the grapes of the earth aka unbelievers and sends them into the wine press of God's Wrath. You will likely say the tribulation has started or something yet till this point maybe. However this is the rapture this is after the tribulation and this is where God's wrath falls upon the earth.

You got one rapture here in the middle of the tribulation.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jesus said After the tribulation we will be raptured see.

And you got a second rapture here at the end of the tribulation.

Yeah you sure know your stuff. So does that mean every time you see the word gather, it means rapture to you?

You don't seem to have any understanding when it comes to the tribulation.
It goes like this The tribulation -> Rapture -> Wrath of God -> Defeat of the antichrist -> 1000 year reign -> Christ Judges all -> Forever after.

Not only is this alignment all wrong, where's the great white throne judgement?

What are you talking about? Christians aka us are to die in the tribulation FACT.

And this is just so wrong, wrong, wrong. If your knowledge of the bible is as bad as your understanding of prophecy, this would make sense.

Good job at educating me, it was hilarious.

 

[Jerico Miles]

Another note, your faith doesn't need to be strong to be saved as its entirely by the grace of God. As long as you have faith as small as a mustard seed you can move mountains and tell the sky to shut.

Wow, I just read this also. Third post on the first page.

People don't listen to this guy. He tells people we are to die in the tribulation. He tells people we don't need faith because we'll be saved by the grace of God in the tribulation.

He's preaching pro death and against faith. OP please don't listen to this guy.

 

[athrun5]

Matthew 5:11
“God blesses you when people mock you and persecute you and lie about you and say all sorts of evil things against you because you are my followers.

Luke 6:22
What blessings await you when people hate you and exclude you and mock you and curse you as evil because you follow the Son of Man.

2 Peter 3:3
Most importantly, I want to remind you that in the last days scoffers will come, mocking the truth and following their own desires.

You mock me, you call me a false teacher, a demon possessed man and a spiritually blind person. However I forgive you, Grace and Peace be with you from our Lord Jesus Christ. I pray that God gives you Strength, Courage, Wisdom, Knowledge and Understanding. I don't believe pre-tribulation rapture but I am ending a simple sinless debate that now has become sinful.

God Bless.

 

[FreeinChrist]

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