I give up: I'd rather go backwards, than forwards (in Evolution)

Ophiolite · Feb 11, 2021

SkyWriting said:
I guess you do not understand how to educate. It's your failing, not his.

A dozen or more members have employed a diversity of educational and communication techniques over a period of years and scores of posts, patiently - and evntually not so patiently - seeking to explain evolutionary theory, correct misunderstandings, offer guidance and so forth. If it is @Freodin 's failing it is one shared by a host of well informed members who have demonstrated an ability to educate and inform others, on other occassions.

Some horses won't drink, even if you offer them iced Perrier.

SkyWriting · Feb 11, 2021

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
You obviously haven't been paying attention to this thread or any thread that Gottservant has started.

You obviously shouldn't be either. I have this stunning skill of choosing what I read. Thanks.
I didn't realize how much more talented I am than others.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Feb 11, 2021

SkyWriting said:
You obviously shouldn't be either. I have this stunning skill of choosing what I read. Thanks.
I didn't realize how much more talented I am than others.

Your comment makes no sense. It's wrong for me to see someone saying non-sensical and point out that it's non-sensical and to try and teach that person that they're wrong?
Didn't you just have a go at Freodin by saying: "I guess you do not understand how to educate."?

pitabread · Feb 11, 2021

SkyWriting said:
I guess you do not understand how to educate. It's your failing, not his.

Education is a two-way street.

SkyWriting · Feb 11, 2021

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
If I remember rightly from my time in high school, evolution (as a whole) wasn't really touched on in biology. When we talked about genes and such, it was mentioned but we never had a full on lesson on evolution.

But, no-one taught me that. That's just an observation from my own understanding of evolution and reading Gottservant's posts. He really does not understand evolution, or even science.

But you keep responding to his posts. This problem is you not him.

SkyWriting · Feb 11, 2021

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
Your comment makes no sense. It's wrong for me to see someone saying non-sensical and point out that it's non-sensical and to try and teach that person that they're wrong?
Didn't you just have a go at Freodin by saying: "I guess you do not understand how to educate."?

No teacher in existence in the world blames the reader for being wrong.
But that's what you have learned. I wonder where you got that from?

Warden_of_the_Storm · Feb 11, 2021

SkyWriting said:
But you keep responding to his posts. This problem is you not him.

And I keep trying to engage him on the topic to try and show that he is wrong in the genuine hope that he actually will have the lightbulb moment and he sees that he is wrong about a basic fact of science.

Education is a good thing, believe it or not.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Feb 11, 2021

SkyWriting said:
No teacher in existence in the world blames the reader for being wrong.
But that's what you have learned. I wonder where you got that from?

You've obviously not been in a classroom. If a student reads something and misinterprets what they've read, then it is the teacher's job to correct them.

What school did you go to if you think that a teacher shouldn't correct a misinformed student?

Shemjaza · Feb 11, 2021

SkyWriting said:
But you keep responding to his posts. This problem is you not him.

People can't blame him for their growing frustration at inability/unwillingness to understand or change any interpretations.

However, a flat refusal to change any misconception is his own responsibility.

SkyWriting said:
You obviously shouldn't be either. I have this stunning skill of choosing what I read. Thanks.
I didn't realize how much more talented I am than others.

Snidely bragging about being ignorant of something you are pontificating about isn't the winning argument you appear to think it is.

Freodin · Feb 11, 2021

SkyWriting said:
I guess you do not understand how to educate. It's your failing, not his.

That made me smile.

I have been a teacher. I am very well aware of the problem of how to best teach all sorts of students. I know how to use different approaches for different personalities.
I know that the teacher has always more means to teach than the student to fail to learn.

But this same experience has also made me aware that some people simply do not want to learn. That there are people who can cannot tell, because they do not listen.

Yes, you might say that even that is a failing of the teacher, the failing to motivate, to engage, to make people listen.

But that on the one hand ignores the problem that for all their willingness, their knowledge, their experience, their motivation... even teachers are only humans.
And on the other hand, it ignores that students are also just humans.

pitabread · Feb 11, 2021

SkyWriting said:
No teacher in existence in the world blames the reader for being wrong.

This is the point of testing and assignments. Students are evaluated on how well they understood the material and provided with feedback thereof. If a student isn't performing well, the onus is on them to work to improve their understanding.

Not every student will pass a class.

FrumiousBandersnatch · Feb 11, 2021

There's probably a reason why the oldest English proverb still in use is, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink".

Ophiolite · Feb 11, 2021

FrumiousBandersnatch said:
There's probably a reason why the oldest English proverb still in use is, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink".

This time I shall take credit.

Ophiolite said:
Some horses won't drink, even if you offer them iced Perrier.

FrumiousBandersnatch · Feb 11, 2021

Ophiolite said:
This time I shall take credit.

I apologise for not citing my inspiration [I'm tired and making a lot of mistakes today]

Gottservant · Feb 12, 2021

driewerf said:
Here is a deal: I will not ask for your help to evolve back; and you don't tell me to evolve back. Deal? Deal!

You are close to a deal, but your terms seem to preclude me "designing" back? Or asking you to?

Gottservant · Feb 13, 2021

I think the thing is, that even if you have "Evolution" completely worked out, I am still going to side with the underdog (to begin with).

Take "Flat Earthers". You argue and argue that the world is round all you want, to me its simple as saying, "no matter what you stand on, at some point it is going to seem flat" - if you stand on the Sun and look out to the horizon, that horizon will look flat!

Now you may say, "no matter how flat something may seem, if you move far enough out of its space, it will seem round" but to me, that misses the point: Flat Earthers don't want to see it as round - that's enough!

Freodin · Feb 13, 2021

SkyWriting said:
I guess you do not understand how to educate. It's your failing, not his.

Freodin said:
...some people simply do not want to learn.

And now look here. That's as close to an admission as Gottservant is capable of formulating.

Gottservant said:
Now you may say, "no matter how flat something may seem, if you move far enough out of its space, it will seem round" but to me, that misses the point: Flat Earthers don't want to see it as round - that's enough!

Gottservant · Feb 13, 2021

Freodin said:
And now look here. That's as close to an admission as Gottservant is capable of formulating.

I don't get it?

Is it a problem that I can see things from a Flat Earthers' perspective?

That's my whole point! I'm not the only one that depends on people, to maintain a perspective they agree justifies them.

You want to believe Evolution on your own or something - that has nothing to do with me?

Freodin · Feb 13, 2021

Gottservant said:
I don't get it?

Is it a problem that I can see things from a Flat Earthers' perspective?

That's my whole point! I'm not the only one that depends on people, to maintain a perspective they agree justifies them.

You want to believe Evolution on your own or something - that has nothing to do with me?

What you - or I - want to see is irrelevant.

As the author Philip K. Dick so aptly remarked: "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

You do know that. You do understand that. You just don't want to admit it.

Look at all the posts you made. Look at all the statements you made. About Jesus and wisdom and heaven. You do believe that there is a reality behind your statements, and that people have to deal with this reality.

Even you cannot keep to your own claims of "whatever, I just see it differently". Even you are looking for agreement, for justification.

Now here's the rub: reality doesn't agree with you. Reality doesn't justify your views.

And with your last post, with this encoded diversion to "flat earthers", you have basically admitted your problem: you just don't want to accept reality.

Gottservant · Feb 13, 2021

Freodin said:
What you - or I - want to see is irrelevant.

[...]

Now here's the rub: reality doesn't agree with you. Reality doesn't justify your views.

And with your last post, with this encoded diversion to "flat earthers", you have basically admitted your problem: you just don't want to accept reality.

Because I keep "perspective open", I am 'narrow minded'?

Because you have "faced reality", you are 'vetted from concern'?

There is something cheap about that, that I can't quite put my finger on?

I am particularly concerned that you think "Heaven" is irrelevant... being in Heaven, without a desire to change, is sin.

I give up: I'd rather go backwards, than forwards (in Evolution)

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