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I find it funny

Awesomegirl

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lol so you think you know what I have studied. Well you are closed minded then. Agnosticism is a choice, it's choosing to humble yourself and no when to say something is unknowable instead of being pig headed and professing you are the only one right. I have no problem with your choice but don't make me feel like an evil person because I don't agree with what you say. I have studied Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, Atheism, Buddhism, and many more and the conclusion I came upon was that all try to shout forth the truth when the real truth is the human race simply can not be sure of any.
 
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Digit

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yes it makes perfect sense, if god is omniscient and is the source of all then what he creates must be made of his substance because he is the only thing around
God is not subject to those rules. God is outside of time, and only things within time have a begining and an end. If you are interested, I would suggest reading this.

unless you believe that matter had no earlier form which is illogical. No I am not mixing the two I am using one as an example for the other, no where did I say the two must mix together.
You are trying to refute the spiritual using the physical.

YES! it does support free will thank you for supporting my claim unlike the other christians on here.
Who denies free will? o_O

Also shouldn't god if he wants us to believe in him in some way reveal himself to me, I've never felt lead to him at all.
You have free will don't you? If you don't want God in your life, so be it. I cannot say how much you've looked, but I always hear similar posturing form people claiming not to have experienced God, when they've not ever wanted to experience God.

Anyways you should seriously study Buddhism because it is nearly identical to Christianity in its savior archetype and its teachings. It came 500 years before Christianity too so don't try and act like Christianity is the only religion saying this stuff.
Actually I believe that many things can be -made- to seem similar, just like the comparison of the Egyptian God Horus. Does first come mean it should be considered more?

Speaking of similarities, why do you suppose so many nations around the globe share the story of the global flood?

Cheers,
Digit
 
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Digit

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also digit are you implying that I should simply believe in a religion out of fear, love me or burn. That is what it sounds like. Sounds like Nazi treatment to the Jews, be like us or burn, not much different eh?

I said:
I'm not saying become a Christian, because if you don't you're screwed.
Seems like you hear what you want to hear no?

For someone who professes a loving and just religion you sure don't seem to practice what you preach. See I can hit below the belt too.
How do you figure that?

Cheers,
Digit
 
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Awesomegirl

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I am sorry I have spoken in this manner, I don't want to act like a mean person, I don't hate your beliefs, and I don't want to send that message. The whole point of this post was to display my feelings and attitude for the people who have responded to my essay question post. Those people at the end of every conversation started to get really ugly and hateful towards me for having a different view. In my opinion it's not what you believe that makes a hill of beans it is what you do that influences others.
 
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Digit

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*sigh*
lol so you think you know what I have studied. Well you are closed minded then. Agnosticism is a choice, it's choosing to humble yourself and no when to say something is unknowable instead of being pig headed and professing you are the only one right.
No, I'm not saying I know what you have studied. My post came after this little outburst but for the record:

You have free will don't you? If you don't want God in your life, so be it. I cannot say how much you've looked, but I always hear similar posturing form people claiming not to have experienced God, when they've not ever wanted to experience God.
It was an assumption, yet I freely understand I have no idea, where I see a pattern however, I am rightly free to assume a repetition in behaviour and mindset.

I have no problem with your choice but don't make me feel like an evil person because I don't agree with what you say. I have studied Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, Atheism, Buddhism, and many more and the conclusion I came upon was that all try to shout forth the truth when the real truth is the human race simply can not be sure of any.
I think, "I don't know." is a perfectly acceptable answer. I never said otherwise. I don't profess to say I know all there is, but I believe I know enough and have experienced enough to realise that what I don't know, even if it sounds impossible, may in fact be probable.

I didn't mean to make you feel like an evil person. So if I have, apologies. That was not my intent. You just seemed to steamroll ahead into odd territory.

Cheers,
Digit
 
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Digit

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I am sorry I have spoken in this manner, I don't want to act like a mean person, I don't hate your beliefs, and I don't want to send that message. The whole point of this post was to display my feelings and attitude for the people who have responded to my essay question post. Those people at the end of every conversation started to get really ugly and hateful towards me for having a different view. In my opinion it's not what you believe that makes a hill of beans it is what you do that influences others.
I understand, this happens a lot in Outreach, as people see it as an opportunity to witness. In addition, IIRC there have been similar student posts in the past, and many of those ended the same way. The anonymity of the internet makes us all brave people, I can't imagine many of us acting like we do here in real life. In life we all hide behind masks of what we want people to see, and the internet rips that away and allows us to reveal the crazy(tm) without the risk. ;)

Cheers,
Digit
 
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Awesomegirl

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actually the state of the universe before the big bang even the fabric of time and space itself had not parted from each other so at that point the laws of physics, time, etc did not exist. Also the universe had a form it wasn't created it was just much more condense. When I posted about the love me or burn was before you posted your reply, I was replying to pascals wager not your other post. I grew up in a normal family where I was taught to believe what is believable and accountable. Not once in my life have I thought of God as either. It wasn't a part of my childhood, it was neutral to me. I have never told myself I don't want god in my life, it was just a natural choice for me to keep it neutral.
 
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tapero

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ha ha the old pascals theory attempt, too bad that can be applied to every religion known to man, what if your wrong about Islam? they see christians as idolaters for worshiping a man. They believe you will go to hell. No my vision of god, if there is one is a just and fair one unlike the christian idea.

Hi, this is a common stumbling block to non christians.
No my vision of god, if there is one is a just and fair one unlike the christian idea

See, we are the created, and God is the creator, but we think we know better than God and so we make God in 'our image', which is exactly what your stating as by the above quote.

God is just and fair, and he's not a christian idea.

He's real and if you learn about God without having read about him in the bible, then you do not know what is accurate or inaccurate of Him.

You wrote in a different post, why doesn't he reveal himself to me.

Before I came to Christ, knew nothing of God, but for some reason out of anguish cried out to God for help right after someone tried to kill me.

No clue why I did so, as never thought, nor was taught, never came to mind, except for swear words anything about God. Never thought about eternity or such.

But for some reason calling out to God that day led me to Christ, in probably less than 4 weeks. No clue why I heard.

I'm sure you know this bit about Paul whose name was Saul at the time:

Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord's disciples. He went to the high priest 2and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. 3As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?"

5"Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. 6"Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."

Paul was a fervent believer in the law (not God) but he believed in the law God gave to the Hebrews. And he believed by ordering christians death he was serving God and doing good. He was probably a good man, other than having christians imprisoned or agreeing to their deaths.

But he was called, and note what he says: Who are you Lord?

Jesus called Him, and somehow he knew it was God..just by the call.

Paul was a murderer. Thought he was doing good. Jesus called him, He knew immediately it was God and followed and did as God asked him to.

Similar occured to me, however, while the short time prior to coming to Christ I had no clue what was going on with me. Something was but I didn't know what it was. I finally went to the pastor and told him I didn't know why I was here. He led me to Christ, with two questions.

Many come to Christ in different ways, all of us, come uniquely to God, no experience is the same.

So you ask why doesn't God reveal Himself.

Hon, since your on this board, and hearing the truth of the gospel; that tells me you are being called and God is indeed revealing himself to you.

We all come in different ways.

God declares each one of us knows about him. But we squash that down I believe when we are young. God calls it supressing the truth of the knowledge of God.

I never recall anything about God in my life at all till shortly before coming to Christ.

I guess I can only repeat what I said in earlier post; God says if you seek me with all your heart, you will find me.

So, you know the truth, or at least what we Christians are saying to you as truth, so God has been revealed to you, and it's up to you what you want to do with that knowledge.

Blessings,
tapero
 
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Awesomegirl

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well I'm sorry i cant elucidate Hawkins verbatim but I know the premise of his theories. Also you guys are the ones that took it in a new direction. I wanted to talk about respect in the beginning but it dumped on me to defend why I do not believe in your universe theory. I really didn't want to talk about that but when pushed against a wall I will fight back.
 
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tapero

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lol so you think you know what I have studied. Well you are closed minded then. Agnosticism is a choice, it's choosing to humble yourself and no when to say something is unknowable instead of being pig headed and professing you are the only one right. I have no problem with your choice but don't make me feel like an evil person because I don't agree with what you say. I have studied Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, Atheism, Buddhism, and many more and the conclusion I came upon was that all try to shout forth the truth when the real truth is the human race simply can not be sure of any.

I don't know who this reply was to but I want to say, it's okay how you believe. And I have to tell you that non christians and christians are both alike in the sense that anyone can be arrogant. However, in no way does the bible tell us to be anything anywhere near that. God teaches us to be humble, to be servant to all, to love, and etc. We fail all the time. But it is not arrogant, but is percieved as arrogance, however some christians are outright arrogant, same as non christians.

When one comes to Christ, we know, some less some more, depending on experience, we know wow, there is a God, and we change, some faster,some slower, some maybe not much at all, but many to most who are Christians have no doubt that God exists and exists in Father, Jesus and Holy Spirit.

In the old testament God passed much judgement and much occured in the OT as God revealed himself to people. When Christ came, he did not come to judge, but to teach, and heal, and forgive, and to die for our sins and be resurrected.

God loves you very much. You are precious and wherever you are is okay. It's okay.

You're asking questions and people are answering. I didnt read whoever wrote to you that recieved above reply, but wherever you are it's okay.

But, no it's not arrogance, tho any can be arrogant, it's truth.

You may believe you have the truth in as much as you can know it, I wouldn't call you arrogant for such.

blessings,
tapero
 
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Awesomegirl

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tapero I never said I understood god, or if he even exist. I have said repeatedly that it is an unknowable. I said he will be fair and just unlike the christian idea because due to research, i have read a lot of the bible in the last few weeks of religion class I have found it to be very much the opposite of what I would find fair and just. I mean you can't just pick the nice parts and forget about all the battles where god told the Israelites to rape and kill the survivors of the opposing side. Also the doctrine of love me or burn forever because a glaring flaw in justice and fairness.
 
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tapero

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well I'm sorry i cant elucidate Hawkins verbatim but I know the premise of his theories. Also you guys are the ones that took it in a new direction. I wanted to talk about respect in the beginning but it dumped on me to defend why I do not believe in your universe theory. I really didn't want to talk about that but when pushed against a wall I will fight back.

hi, again, I didn't read back.

It doesn't matter about the universe.. It doesn't matter how it came into being. God dosen't say if you believe in me (Christ) you must believe I created the world.

So, it's a detour. It's not important.

No one need believe anything about the universe how it came to be, etc., to believe in God.
 
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tapero

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tapero I never said I understood god, or if he even exist. I have said repeatedly that it is an unknowable. I said he will be fair and just unlike the christian idea because due to research, i have read a lot of the bible in the last few weeks of religion class I have found it to be very much the opposite of what I would find fair and just. I mean you can't just pick the nice parts and forget about all the battles where god told the Israelites to rape and kill the survivors of the opposing side. Also the doctrine of love me or burn forever because a glaring flaw in justice and fairness.

Okay, that's another thing non christians are told, and there is no place in the bible where God said to rape anyone, nor will you ever find such scripture as doesn't exist, and is often brought up, see cause things are commonly taught and what we hear many times we believe, without knowing.

I won't tell you only good things; to me anything God does is right just and fair. I don't understand it all, don't know why some things occured, but I do know God is just good right fair and Holy. He does no evil.

It doesn't matter about the battles in the Old Testament. If God ordered a whole nation wiped, man, woman, child, and animal, I don't know why, but I do know God is good, and I know there is purpose, for God does not do things without purpose. So we don't know the mind of God, except what is revealed, and He doesn't tell us many of the why's, but I can tell you, whatever God has done has been for our good, meaning mankind.

We can't see that now, I can in part, but I mean we can't fathom about the flood and all mankind and animals wiped from the earth; however, I know, or have a fairly good idea, he was preserving man, as man had grown so wicked; if he hadn't reserved his wrath and even wiped out Noah then there would be none, but to preserve mankind, saved Noah and the family, and so I know you can't get all this, but it comes by learning from the bible, and not by being told lies that aren't in the bible such as God ordered rape, which you will never see any scripture stating such; is just a common teaching by non christians.

So, while I'm glad you're reading the bible, well, let me put it this way. You have parents and you grew up with them, and the older you got the more you learned about them, more in depth, same is with God and with the bible, it's not a few week deal, it's a relationship that is learning about God and the truths in the bible. Whether good things or bad things in the bible, it's learning truths. Not from outside sources who are saying lies that God said to rape women, again never stated, nor would he ever order such.

Why he had nations destroyed down to even babies and animals, (at least one instance) I've no clue, but I do know He is good and righteous, and has wrath, and what he does, I know you can't accept this, all that He has done that we read in the bible was for us 'the body of Christ' and for those not yet saved, or will not be saved, he did it as if his full wrath were vent, which will occur in end times, few would be on this earth now.

Now is the time of grace, for men to come to Christ, that is the period we are in. Like I said, dont know why I heard, but I did. Was 33 when I came to Christ.

As to hell, it's true, God says people will go to hell. I didn't say such, God does.

Again, we are the created, we do not know better than God now can we, nor can we ever be better than God, we never will be.

We are in a spiritual battle God says, hence demons and angels are warring in unseem realms. God says this is the battle. We have very little insight into that, some is given in the bible, but not a lot.

But what's occuring is those keeping men from the truth, which is Christ, and angels fighting for men, for you, for me for us all.
 
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tapero

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thanks I'm going to bed now my head hurts from all this arguing, it's hard being a one girl army. I'm sorry for being a jerk and wasting you guys time. Goodnight

Your not being a jerk. I havent read others posts and dont' know if someone made you feel like that, but no way your being a jerk. Your doing a very good thing. Asking questions and saying what you believe or understand or don't understand or know about. That's all good. So please, no one thinks, I pray no one gave you such an impression, you are not being a jerk at all.

That's what this forum is for questions by non christians, so if someone made you feel like a jerk, I'm sorry, we all fail, and some do use name calling as they are self righteous in saying such, but I didn't read back so don't know.

Hope you sleep well,
take care
tapero
 
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Awesomegirl

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nah no one on this post stooped to that level but people that I talked to on msn messenger started to become very aggressive towards me. It's funny how someones opinion can cause so much anger and hatred. I mean c'mon people people's minds work differently lets embrace difference and learn to respect the opinions and thoughts of others.
 
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Digit

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thanks I'm going to bed now my head hurts from all this arguing, it's hard being a one girl army. I'm sorry for being a jerk and wasting you guys time. Goodnight
Hey Awesomegirl,

You aren't being a jerk, don't be silly. :) Understand the majority of people we get here in outreach are those who have come across something that they feel is a magic-bullet to Christianity. The pose the question, we reply with the same answer we always do, and then I imagine one of two things happens. 1) They are satisfied and leave. 2) They are not satisfied and debate - ie. they already have an answer they like, and don't want to give it up. For example, the Bible advocates rape of virgins or something along those lines. Seriously, you field the same question a hundred times and then take a look at your replies and note how at the start, it's all, "Hey howya doing! ... etc" and to the end it's, "This is wrong... ". I don't like to admit it, but it happens to the best of us. Well, Tapero seems to always have a sunny disposition, but I think she's an alien myself. :p

Cheers!
Digit
 
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tapero

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nah no one on this post stooped to that level but people that I talked to on msn messenger started to become very aggressive towards me. It's funny how someones opinion can cause so much anger and hatred. I mean c'mon people people's minds work differently lets embrace difference and learn to respect the opinions and thoughts of others.

Oh, I'm glad it didn't happen here.

You know, same thing occurs here at CF very much so.

People say things online they would never say face to face in forums.

So, seems how it is.

I mess up too, but not generally in public, hehe..

but yes, many will say things the would not say to their non believing spouse, co worker, boss etc. however will tear people apart here.. visa versa also occurs.

but yeah, i hear you.

yes, it's amazing how online can get to us..i can get so angry, i am so amazed at how words on cyber space can effect me..i can get so hurt or angry..it's so strange, but words do hurt.

hatred, i don't get that...i mean that i dont struggle with hatred, from reading stuff online or comments; but i do get angry and hurt.

anyway, look forward to when your back on again..

take care,
tapero
 
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