I Feel Nothing at Church and I'm Sick of It

[MoreCoffee]

^I really felt you are still trying to work yourself into acceptance of the electric candles with that one, but you couldn't quite mask your disappointment there.

The wax candles were lovely and I do miss them yet the electric candles are lovely too and leave no waxy residue on the floors

 

[MKJ]

I think Gratia there are probably a few different things going on here, and they are creating a kind of negative synergy. But it might be helpful to tease them out.

It sounds to me like you think the liturgy is not only sloppy, it is in part sloppy, and also sometimes ill-conceived, because people are not treating it with enough seriousness or as if it is really important.

In my experience, if you feel that the parish and priest are really taking liturgy seriously, you can easily deal with normal mistakes or decisions that don't quite work out the way people had hoped, they just flow off like water on a duck.

The fact is that some parishes will be less able than others. Maybe no one has really had much experience with serious liturgy, or maybe there aren't many good organizers, or whatever. So, there will be more errors. I think parishes like that should probably try and keep it simple.

Anyway - I think that maybe because you think their heart is not in the right place, you are probably reacting to normal errors more strongly than you would otherwise. Some people are also very sensitive - I know a fellow who gets distracted when someone in the sanctuary wears a watch. These kinds of things need to be kept in check somehow.

I might think about a few things. I agree that indifference to liturgy, and inexperience with it, is a larger cultural problem in much of the Church. But why in this parish? Is it the priest, some historical reason, or is it something more to do with the beliefs of the denomination around liturgy? The answer might influence what you choose to do.

More concretely - there can sometimes be real utility in situations like this to make a kind of liturgical lent for yourself. Not by going to contemporary services, but by stripping away the trappings. If I were going to do this I would attend the early said service of the parish, which has only one server and the priest, no hymns, nothing really but the bare bones of the liturgy. In some cases services like that don't even have a sermon. I think something like this could potentially help with reconnecting with the liturgy, whatever other action you might end up taking.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

I think Gratia there are probably a few different things going on here, and they are creating a kind of negative synergy. But it might be helpful to tease them out.

It sounds to me like you think the liturgy is not only sloppy, it is in part sloppy, and also sometimes ill-conceived, because people are not treating it with enough seriousness or as if it is really important.

In my experience, if you feel that the parish and priest are really taking liturgy seriously, you can easily deal with normal mistakes or decisions that don't quite work out the way people had hoped, they just flow off like water on a duck.

The fact is that some parishes will be less able than others. Maybe no one has really had much experience with serious liturgy, or maybe there aren't many good organizers, or whatever. So, there will be more errors. I think parishes like that should probably try and keep it simple.

Anyway - I think that maybe because you think their heart is not in the right place, you are probably reacting to normal errors more strongly than you would otherwise. Some people are also very sensitive - I know a fellow who gets distracted when someone in the sanctuary wears a watch. These kinds of things need to be kept in check somehow.

I might think about a few things. I agree that indifference to liturgy, and inexperience with it, is a larger cultural problem in much of the Church. But why in this parish? Is it the priest, some historical reason, or is it something more to do with the beliefs of the denomination around liturgy? The answer might influence what you choose to do.

More concretely - there can sometimes be real utility in situations like this to make a kind of liturgical lent for yourself. Not by going to contemporary services, but by stripping away the trappings. If I were going to do this I would attend the early said service of the parish, which has only one server and the priest, no hymns, nothing really but the bare bones of the liturgy. In some cases services like that don't even have a sermon. I think something like this could potentially help with reconnecting with the liturgy, whatever other action you might end up taking.

This is all really helpful, thank you.

I wish we had a spoken, sermonless service I could go to once and a while (with or without hymns, I tend to like them, but maybe a weekday service without).

And on the one hand I think that it may be inexperience with liturgical training, but on the other hand not it isn't inexperience with well-done liturgy because the pastor is a former Catholic. He's a really great guy but I think he enjoys being laid back, and I get that coming from a Catholic background. But he also really appreciates the liturgy (and instituted a few very positive changes as of today, happy Easter to the whole congregation), so it's kind of just odd to me.

Anyways, thank you again.

 

[Mary of Bethany]

We're actually moving to San Antonio in July and have spent some time looking for an appropriate LCMS church (traditional liturgy, weekly communion). We might have found one, but in our search we also discovered that San Antonio is home to the original Anglican Rite Catholic parish, Our Lady of the Atonement. Who knew?

Moving to Texas in July . . . . why, bless your heart!
(that's southern speak for "are you crazy?!?!?!?!")

Try visiting an Orthodox parish for Holy Week services this week - maybe it would help just to get in a different frame of mind. There would certainly be the gravitas you missed.

Have a blessed Easter Week!

Mary

 

[FireDragon76]

And on the one hand I think that it may be inexperience with liturgical training, but on the other hand not it isn't inexperience with well-done liturgy because the pastor is a former Catholic. He's a really great guy but I think he enjoys being laid back, and I get that coming from a Catholic background.

In my experience, being Roman Catholic doesn't excuse a person from embracing bad liturgy. In fact I'd say Roman Catholics aren't even particularly strong in the area of liturgy.

I've been to several Anglican and Episcopalian churches and I never felt like Episcopalians do it wrong. Sure, the base material used may be a little iffy (the overly contemporary language of the 79 prayer book), but there is always a sense of gravity that I haven't found in many other churches except maybe for the Eastern Orthodox.

I would not worry too much about the charge of pietism... remember our faith is supposed to be doing something in our life, otherwise it is dead.

 

[graceandpeace]

When I was researching the LCMS, all but one church out here was primarily "contemporary," with a "traditional" option at the crack of dawn with no options for kids that early & did not offer the Eucharist at least once a week. I'm not as far south as you're going, either...

Doesn't matter to me now, since I ultimately disagreed with too much of the LCMS teachings to consider it. You may find that many churches further south are highly influenced by conservative politics or evangelical theology. How that would affect the liturgy, I'm not sure.

I found something deeper in my visits to an Orthodox parish, a rightly done liturgy, & most of the Episcopal churches I've been to were easy for me to connect with as well. Some Episcopal churches do include more modern music or songs from other cultures, but as long as the hymnal is still sung from & the Eucharist is treated with respect I think I can tolerate some differences.

I do have moments though where I am frustrated. Maybe just frustrated with many churches as a whole. I need something sacred, to know that what I'm doing has meaning, to have some space for reflection. My current church does give me that space, but for convenience reasons I'm working on possibly finding a closer parish. I would have to accept things like the differences in music for example. Not sure what I'm doing yet.

I do share your cynicism & my guess is we are close in age. I just get tired of this faith sometimes. The news, the pandering, the ideas that we know it all & any deviance is not Christian. I'm just tired & annoyed sometimes.

Sorry, I know I started rambling. I hope you find a church home.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Hey GCC,

I'm really sorry to read of your disappointments. You have my prayers!

I don't have the expertise to offer any practical advice, and part of what comes to mind is that this might fall within that area of Lutheran/Orthodox differences? So part of it I don't want to mistakenly address.

My first thought though is what Mary suggested. You haven't missed Orthodox Holy Week and Pascha. I'm sure it's different from what you're used to, but if what you want is to experience the services, I know our Orthodox services are powerful in that sense. I can only hope a Church near you would be as well. Last year I felt as though I walked with Christ those last few days, and I was more deeply involved with the liturgy than I ever managed to be involved in the most emotionally-charged Pentecostal services in my past. We have people from many denominations who attend our Pascha service - it's interesting to me that they get so much out of that one service that they show up at 11pm and stay until well past midnight when they aren't even Orthodox.

I can sympathize with technical "issues" being distracting in the Liturgy. I'm sensitive to that myself, and while our Church has some very wonderful people - the priest, our choir director (he won an Archdiocese award), our main Greek chanter, a newer and very talented English chanter, and others - much thought and care obviously goes into making everything "right" ...

Still, the style varies from time to time. If our English chanter is the only one there on a weekday Liturgy, it will be very different (usually) than if our main Greek chanter is there. (All our chanters can do both Greek and English, but some are much stronger in one or the other.) Also, we have a visiting and newly-ordained priest here during Holy Week, so there have been a couple of minor "hiccups". I notice those, and it's certainly true if there were too many or they were a particular type, it would distract me terribly.

I only mean to say that I sympathize. When I did used to attend contemporary services, I would be completely distracted if someone doing the music had poor technical skills.

Btw, you sound a little like me. Once I've prayed and prepared for the Eucharist, I try to keep my mind locked down - I've started using a chotki as well and find it is wonderful for helping to maintain focus. Eyes on an icon, hands on the chotki, mind in prayer, and maybe I can make it to the chalice without being distracted, God willing.

As I said, you have my prayers. If nothing else, this particular parish won't be the one you worship in much longer. I hope your next parish is what you need, and your current parish can meet the needs there.

God bless you dear brother. Praying for you both!

 

[duolos]

Feelings are transient, especially when we are still in bondage however slight to the old man. God is everlasting, and His face is towards you.

 

[MKJ]

This is all really helpful, thank you.
And on the one hand I think that it may be inexperience with liturgical training, but on the other hand not it isn't inexperience with well-done liturgy because the pastor is a former Catholic. He's a really great guy but I think he enjoys being laid back, and I get that coming from a Catholic background. But he also really appreciates the liturgy (and instituted a few very positive changes as of today, happy Easter to the whole congregation), so it's kind of just odd to me.

I wouldn't make any assumptions there. Some of the very worst, and most tasteless, liturgies I have been to are Catholic.

Texas is an interesting spot - it seems to be quite a hotbed of orthodox apostolicity. There are the Episcopalians that became Romans. There are Episcopalians who became Orthodox. There is the Church of the Incarnation in Dallas which is still Episcopal but very traditional.

 

[SkyWriting]

I'm really tired of going into church in a parish that celebrates using various forms of historic liturgies and coming out feeling only two things: boredom and annoyance.

You are in control of your thoughts....and your feet.
You can change the direction of either or both.