I dont have saving faith

RobertZ · Apr 8, 2010

But what about someone who gets that last call from the Holy Spirit and then walks away without heeding his call and getting saved?

The only time you can get saved is when the Holy Spirit is dealing (speaking to your heart) with you. There will come a time when a person could be dealt with by the Holy Spirit for the last time and if the person doesnt get saved at that time then they will forever seal their fate. For some people that last call from the Holy Spirit could happen many years before the person is physically dead.

Gregory Thompson · Apr 8, 2010

Job 33
27 He looketh upon men, and if any say, I have sinned, and perverted that which was right, and it profited me not;
28 He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light.

This sounds like what you're doing .

I haven't known God to show favoritism and as my relationship became deeper with Him i've noticed the Holy Spirit to be "tasteless" to the senses many many times . in such deep silence is the profoundness of His love .

Gregory Thompson · Apr 8, 2010

God loves you . and He's not letting you go . God really is that merciful and that loving and that patient and that kind .

and besides, God gives the Spirit without limit. (John 3:34) He does not measure . He just gives life to everyone and to those who trust in Him . His Spirit . remember the Spirit and the flesh are contrary as the scripture says .. so not being able to perceive Him may have little to do with Him being there . He is always there "an ever present help in times of trouble" .

Deep may call to deep . but even in the depths of hell . He is there .

Jeshu · Apr 8, 2010

RobertZ said:
But what about someone who gets that last call from the Holy Spirit and then walks away without heeding his call and getting saved?

The only time you can get saved is when the Holy Spirit is dealing (speaking to your heart) with you. There will come a time when a person could be dealt with by the Holy Spirit for the last time and if the person doesnt get saved at that time then they will forever seal their fate. For some people that last call from the Holy Spirit could happen many years before the person is physically dead.

I disagree with your analysis, or rather the outcome of your analysis.

The Holy Spirit is the life-giver, so for as long as we are physically alive, He dwells within us. (Gen 2)

However only faith in Christ can save the sinner from killing their lives within, by choosing for sinful wrong and not God's truthful way.

For example in your heart you hear more than just doubt and unbelief - though currently those are the ungodly forces that you have given rule in your heart.

The sad consequence is that you now believe yourself to be unsaved - for you erroneously believe that you can determine your own salvation though God has basically been telling you constantly what happens when you do that - that believing such thoughts and feelings are not saved - like you are now - you are not going to live forever either - but you will perish the death of the unbeliever.

Salvation is out of reach for those who will not accept the truth. Please never blame the Holy Spirit for that, surely you are 100 percent responsible for the choice that you make?

However that doesn't mean that you are not saved in other parts of your life. Your loving deed, your honesty, your kindness, your forgiving attitudes, your generous moments and all else that has been chosen by the truth of God, and is doing good because loving truth rules your heart - even if it is only for a few moments - for Christ hasn't lost none of us - not you either.

For even if you have killed good/true life within yourself - then God has such stored in Heaven awaiting to be return as rulers of your heart and mind at the End of Days Wouldn't good life jump from joy you being truly yourself again able to glory in God instead of doubt Him all the time?

So yes, as you are now, believing the lies and such bringing death into you - such will die - and be replaced with a you who knows, believes and loves the truth - instead of denying Him and His goodness existence inside of you.

So please repent of following unbelieving ways - for as you have seen such brings only death into you - and put yourself at the end of the line as unbeliever instead of dominating your reality right upfront - as you can see God is warning you constantly about where you have put yourself and has been patiently awaiting the time you chose The Truth over against the lies.

For those forces who bring you your doubt and unbelief - such in life has been cut of from grace and will not be granted eternal life. (Jude) The devil and his dominion over you and all that in you which believes their lies!

So let the truth rule and be saved (John 3:16, 1 Tim 4:9-10) - or - keep having your existence in lies and its constant miseries - the choice is yours - for Christ sets free!

Today is the day to repent - Today is the day for you to be saved. Please stop doubting God's love and accept His love for you instead.

straywolf73 · Apr 8, 2010

Oh Robert....
The only sin you can commit that is unforgivable..is to harden your heart to "the point you no longer seek God"
You are quite obviously seeking him..But i wonder if you are fighting him as well?
some people cling to there sins so hard they will not let the holy spirit take away the burden of guilt..even though you are forgiven
I don't know you personally obviously so this is just a guess on my part
Still praying
CQ

RobertZ · Apr 8, 2010

Jeshu said:
The Holy Spirit is the life-giver, so for as long as we are physically alive, He dwells within us. (Gen 2)

I have to disagree with you here as the Holy Spirit does not dwell inside of the unbeliever yet the unbeliever is still physically alive but spiritually he is dead.

RobertZ · Apr 8, 2010

straywolf73 said:
Oh Robert....
The only sin you can commit that is unforgivable..is to harden your heart to "the point you no longer seek God"
You are quite obviously seeking him..But i wonder if you are fighting him as well?
some people cling to there sins so hard they will not let the holy spirit take away the burden of guilt..even though you are forgiven
I don't know you personally obviously so this is just a guess on my part
Still praying
CQ

I can certainly see your point and I want to agree so bad that as long as im seeking God that I didnt commit the unforgivable sin but there is one problem and that is found in the book of Proverbs.

There is a passage of scripture which God is stretching out his hand to people who will not listen to him or take his advice, it goes on to say that when their fear and calamity comes they will search for God diligently but will not find him. It goes on to say that because they would not listen to God when he was calling that they will now not be able to find him because they ignored his reproofs.

Basically God has abandoned these people and all hope is lost. I asked my pastor about that scripture and he told me plainly that it was in regards to people that harden their hearts to the voice of God and that terrified me because I know I hardened my heart and now it seems I cant find him just like the example of the people in the book of Proverbs.

Jeshu · Apr 8, 2010

RobertZ said:
I have to disagree with you here as the Holy Spirit does not dwell inside of the unbeliever yet the unbeliever is still physically alive but spiritually he is dead.

You look at it the wrong way I think.

Life is The Lord's, we participate in Him, He is our life, only in Him can we exist or have reality - both good and bad! (Gen 3)

So we humans get from Him our own life - we haven't got life in ourself - we can only ever exist in The Truth - there is no existence outside of Him.

So from this pespective we all have life in the Holy Spirit, however we kill Him within us and the right of Him to exist - when we follow lying sinful way and not loving truthful way - harvesting us the spirit whom brings death and misery alive within instead - for good life suffers bad life!

However when bad life dies, either physically or spiritually then good life comes back to life again (Rev 21) - like I said our lives are in Him.

Please let Him speak before you determine what you believe.

Acts 17:24-28

"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'

RobertZ · Apr 8, 2010

Jeshu said:
You look at it the wrong way I think.

Life is The Lord's, we participate in Him, He is our life, only in Him can we exist or have reality - both good and bad! (Gen 3)

So we humans get from Him our own life - we haven't got life in ourself - we can only ever exist in The Truth - there is no existence outside of Him.

So from this pespective we all have life in the Holy Spirit, however we kill Him within us and the right of Him to exist - when we follow lying sinful way and not loving truthful way - harvesting us the spirit whom brings death and misery alive within instead - for good life suffers bad life!

However when bad life dies, either physically or spiritually then good life comes back to life again (Rev 21) - like I said our lives are in Him.

Please let Him speak before you determine what you believe.

Acts 17:24-28

"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'

I understand to a point what you are saying and I appreciate your advice but there is no doubt at all that the only people with whom the Holy Spirit indwells are those that are believers.

Unbelievers do not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and that much I know because its a Biblical fact.

The Holy Spirit comes to live inside of an individual at the moment of the second birth which only the Spirit can give.

Jeffwhosoever · Apr 8, 2010

Robert,

A lost person would not have posted here 1,315 times trying to ascertain the state of his or her salvation. God is calling you or you wouldn't be posting here.

Jeshu · Apr 8, 2010

RobertZ said:
I understand to a point what you are saying and I appreciate your advice but there is no doubt at all that the only people with whom the Holy Spirit indwells are those that are believers.

Unbelievers do not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and that much I know because its a Biblical fact.

The Holy Spirit comes to live inside of an individual at the moment of the second birth which only the Spirit can give.

Indeed the moment we believe the truth He is in charge of our reality and the promises made to believers goes into effect. So yes faith in Jesus is the truth of God speaking, you can love Him - or deny Him the right to ruler you.

That is your freedom you can listen to the holy Spirit and be a believer and lover of God and His kin - inheriting eternal life, or continue heeding those lying realities dwelling within you making you unsaved for they are lies and existence in lies kills good within - like you have seen inside yourself!

When you believe in lies then indeed, you by nature of inner being are oppose those things The Truth says, - but of course you can see that you are doing that and repent or you can ignore the truth and continue to deny Him into your reality (Ezekiel 18)

Please consider - you can deny yourself the right to continue to exist in lies and step into The Truth instead (lay down your life for Him) - after which you will be safely resurrected into true being and love, trust and believe in The Truth again - when The Life Giver brings you Newness of life and you will learn not to heed doubt or unbelief ever again.

StarryEyes · Apr 8, 2010

Hey Robert! You are in my prayers. God doesn't give up on us.. I grew up going to church, I believed in God, but God wanted me to do something.. Get baptized.. and for years I didn't do it. For years. Until one day I just couldn't reject Him anymore!

But He was always there.. He is so patient with us.

Gregory Thompson · Apr 8, 2010

Jeffwhosoever said:
Robert,

A lost person would not have posted here 1,315 times trying to ascertain the state of his or her salvation. God is calling you or you wouldn't be posting here.

annrobert · Apr 9, 2010

But what about someone who gets that last call from the Holy Spirit and then walks away without heeding his call and getting saved?

Romans

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Robert it is impossible for the carnal mind to want God, by itself,therefore God is calling you right now today.

now God commands men everywhere to repent.

The only time you can get saved is when the Holy Spirit is dealing (speaking to your heart) with you. There will come a time when a person could be dealt with by the Holy Spirit for the last time and if the person doesnt get saved at that time then they will forever seal their fate. For some people that last call from the Holy Spirit could happen many years before the person is physically dead.

RobertZ said:
I can certainly see your point and I want to agree so bad that as long as im seeking God that I didnt commit the unforgivable sin but there is one problem and that is found in the book of Proverbs.

There is a passage of scripture which God is stretching out his hand to people who will not listen to him or take his advice, it goes on to say that when their fear and calamity comes they will search for God diligently but will not find him. It goes on to say that because they would not listen to God when he was calling that they will now not be able to find him because they ignored his reproofs.

Basically God has abandoned these people and all hope is lost. I asked my pastor about that scripture and he told me plainly that it was in regards to people that harden their hearts to the voice of God and that terrified me because I know I hardened my heart and now it seems I cant find him just like the example of the people in the book of Proverbs.

Comparing proverbs 1 to some of Jesus teachings about hell when it is too late.In hell it is too late.

However as long as a person draws breath Jesus said he that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out.

Also Jesus said Everyone who asks receives.

Proverbs
24Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;

25But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
26I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
27When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
28Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:

Luke 13

25When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

26Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

Robert Jesus said he that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out.

Jesus said

8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Jesus is Truth and His Words shall not pass away and the scripture cannot be broken.

Proverbs
God has never forsaken those who seek Him.

You are seeking Him therefore you are not forsaken

Also now God commands men everywhere to repent.

Romans

15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Jesus loves you Robert and you will come through this.

annrobert · Apr 9, 2010

RobertZ said:
But is that something a saved person goes through? I mean honestly, if I am saved then wouldnt God want me to know for myself that I am his? why would he allow for one of his children to go through something horrible like this which only hurts my faith and makes me think that im not saved?

It looks like King David may have felt that way at times, as well as the prophet who wrote lamentations 3.

Psalm 30

1I will extol thee, O LORD; for thou hast lifted me up, and hast not made my foes to rejoice over me.

2O LORD my God, I cried unto thee, and thou hast healed me.

3O LORD, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.

4Sing unto the LORD, O ye saints of his, and give thanks at the remembrance of his holiness.
5For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.
6And in my prosperity I said, I shall never be moved.
7LORD, by thy favour thou hast made my mountain to stand strong: thou didst hide thy face, and I was troubled.

8I cried to thee, O LORD; and unto the LORD I made supplication.
9What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?

10Hear, O LORD, and have mercy upon me: LORD, be thou my helper.

11Thou hast turned for me my mourning into dancing: thou hast put off my sackcloth, and girded me with gladness; 12To the end that my glory may sing praise to thee, and not be silent. O LORD my God, I will give thanks unto thee for ever.

Lamentations 3

1I AM the man that hath seen affliction by the rod of his wrath.
2He hath led me, and brought me into darkness, but not into light.
3Surely against me is he turned; he turneth his hand against me all the day.
4My flesh and my skin hath he made old; he hath broken my bones.
5He hath builded against me, and compassed me with gall and travail.
6He hath set me in dark places, as they that be dead of old.

7He hath hedged me about, that I cannot get out: he hath made my chain heavy.
8Also when I cry and shout, he shutteth out my prayer.
9He hath inclosed my ways with hewn stone, he hath made my paths crooked.

10He was unto me as a bear lying in wait, and as a lion in secret places.
11He hath turned aside my ways, and pulled me in pieces: he hath made me desolate.

12He hath bent his bow, and set me as a mark for the arrow.
13He hath caused the arrows of his quiver to enter into my reins.
14I was a derision to all my people; and their song all the day.
15He hath filled me with bitterness, he hath made me drunken with wormwood.
16He hath also broken my teeth with gravel stones, he hath covered me with ashes.
17And thou hast removed my soul far off from peace: I forgat prosperity.
18And I said, My strength and my hope is perished from the LORD:
19Remembering mine affliction and my misery, the wormwood and the gall.
20My soul hath them still in remembrance, and is humbled in me.
21This I recall to my mind, therefore have I hope.
22It is of the LORD's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.
23They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.
24The LORD is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him.
25The LORD is good unto them that wait for him, to the soul that seeketh him.
26It is good that a man should both hope and quietly wait for the salvation of the LORD.
27It is good for a man that he bear the yoke in his youth.
28He sitteth alone and keepeth silence, because he hath borne it upon him.
29He putteth his mouth in the dust; if so be there may be hope.
30He giveth his cheek to him that smiteth him: he is filled full with reproach.
31For the LORD will not cast off for ever:
32But though he cause grief, yet will he have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies.
33For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men.
34To crush under his feet all the prisoners of the earth.
35To turn aside the right of a man before the face of the most High,
36To subvert a man in his cause, the LORD approveth not.
37Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not?
38Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?
39Wherefore doth a living man complain, a man for the punishment of his sins?
40Let us search and try our ways, and turn again to the LORD.
41Let us lift up our heart with our hands unto God in the heavens.
42We have transgressed and have rebelled: thou hast not pardoned.
43Thou hast covered with anger, and persecuted us: thou hast slain, thou hast not pitied.
44Thou hast covered thyself with a cloud, that our prayer should not pass through.
45Thou hast made us as the offscouring and refuse in the midst of the people.
46All our enemies have opened their mouths against us.
47Fear and a snare is come upon us, desolation and destruction.
48Mine eye runneth down with rivers of water for the destruction of the daughter of my people.
49Mine eye trickleth down, and ceaseth not, without any intermission.
50Till the LORD look down, and behold from heaven.
51Mine eye affecteth mine heart because of all the daughters of my city.
52Mine enemies chased me sore, like a bird, without cause.
53They have cut off my life in the dungeon, and cast a stone upon me.
54Waters flowed over mine head; then I said, I am cut off.
55I called upon thy name, O LORD, out of the low dungeon.
56Thou hast heard my voice: hide not thine ear at my breathing, at my cry.
57Thou drewest near in the day that I called upon thee: thou saidst, Fear not.
58O LORD, thou hast pleaded the causes of my soul; thou hast redeemed my life.
59O LORD, thou hast seen my wrong: judge thou my cause.
60Thou hast seen all their vengeance and all their imaginations against me.
61Thou hast heard their reproach, O LORD, and all their imaginations against me;
62The lips of those that rose up against me, and their device against me all the day.
63Behold their sitting down, and their rising up; I am their musick.
64Render unto them a recompence, O LORD, according to the work of their hands.
65Give them sorrow of heart, thy curse unto them. 66Persecute and destroy them in anger from under the heavens of the LORD.

Isaiah 38
9The writing of Hezekiah king of Judah, when he had been sick, and was recovered of his sickness:

10I said in the cutting off of my days, I shall go to the gates of the grave: I am deprived of the residue of my years.
11I said, I shall not see the LORD, even the LORD, in the land of the living: I shall behold man no more with the inhabitants of the world.
12Mine age is departed, and is removed from me as a shepherd's tent: I have cut off like a weaver my life: he will cut me off with pining sickness: from day even to night wilt thou make an end of me.
13I reckoned till morning, that, as a lion, so will he break all my bones: from day even to night wilt thou make an end of me.
14Like a crane or a swallow, so did I chatter: I did mourn as a dove: mine eyes fail with looking upward: O LORD, I am oppressed; undertake for me.
15What shall I say? he hath both spoken unto me, and himself hath done it: I shall go softly all my years in the bitterness of my soul.
16O LORD, by these things men live, and in all these things is the life of my spirit: so wilt thou recover me, and make me to live.
17Behold, for peace I had great bitterness: but thou hast in love to my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption: for thou hast cast all my sins behind thy back.
18For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
19The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.
20The LORD was ready to save me: therefore we will sing my songs to the stringed instruments all the days of our life in the house of the LORD.
21For Isaiah had said, Let them take a lump of figs, and lay it for a plaister upon the boil, and he shall recover. 22Hezekiah also had said, What is the sign that I shall go up to the house of the LORD?

Exodus 28

3And thou shalt speak unto all that are wise hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom, that they may make Aaron's garments to consecrate him, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.

13Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.

RobertZ · Apr 9, 2010

annrobert said:
28Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:

annrobert said:
Proverbs
God has never forsaken those who seek Him.

You are seeking Him therefore you are not forsaken

Are you reading the same passage of scripture that im reading?

annrobert said:
28Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:

Please dont make this a comparison to Hell because that is not what this passage is talking about. Yes I do realize that it is utterly to late for those that are in Hell but it is also possible that a person while still living on earth can be utterly forsaken by God at which point that persons fate is sealed.

You can so sin against the Holy Spirit by ignoring his promptings over and over again and so harden your heart to him that he gets offended and leaves you to your self. What do you think the unpardonable sin is? its offending the Holy Spirit to the point that he withdraws and without the Holy Spirit there is no forgiveness, no salvation.

John Piper does an excellent job of describing the unpardonable sin, before anyone replies I would highly advise to take the time to watch these two videos, if anything at all watch the second one.

YouTube - The Unforgivable Sin, Part 1 of 2- John Piper

YouTube - The Unforgivable Sin, Part 2 of 2 - John Piper

Gregory Thompson · Apr 9, 2010

RobertZ

Aibrean · Apr 9, 2010

Believe with your heart and confess with your mouth. That IS found in the Bible.

Romans 10:10
For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

gray100 · Apr 9, 2010

Robert, the video is nonsense. The blasphemy against the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with hardening ones heart and missing the opportunity to receive salvation.

The unforgivable sin is witnessing the undeniable power of God being shown through Christ's miracles, and then deliberately and maliciously attributing them to the power of Satan.

Mark chapter 3 probably gives the most detailed definition of the unpardonable sin in its original context. Jesus said "whoever SPEAKS against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness" and Mark stated that Jesus had said this because the Pharisees accused Him of having an unclean spirit.

In Matthew 12, in the passage immediately following the Pharisee's blasphemy, Jesus said "out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks", that the Pharisees would have to give account to God for every careless word they had spoken. So there are two important aspects to this sin. First of all, it is a VERBAL sin which judgement is based on what the what the Pharisees actually said. Secondly, it is a WILFUL sin committed deliberately and maliciously by people who were totally opposed to Christ and His ministry. Therefore, anyone who is worried about the fact that they have committed this sin can be totally assured that they have not committed it.

RobertZ · Apr 9, 2010

gray100 said:
Robert, the video is nonsense. The blasphemy against the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with hardening ones heart and missing the opportunity to receive salvation.

The unforgivable sin is witnessing the undeniable power of God being shown through Christ's miracles, and then deliberately and maliciously attributing them to the power of Satan.

Mark chapter 3 probably gives the most detailed definition of the unpardonable sin in its original context. Jesus said "whoever SPEAKS against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness" and Mark stated that Jesus had said this because the Pharisees accused Him of having an unclean spirit.

In Matthew 12, in the passage immediately following the Pharisee's blasphemy, Jesus said "out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks", that the Pharisees would have to give account to God for every careless word they had spoken. So there are two important aspects to this sin. First of all, it is a VERBAL sin which judgement is based on what the what the Pharisees actually said. Secondly, it is a WILFUL sin committed deliberately and maliciously by people who were totally opposed to Christ and His ministry. Therefore, anyone who is worried about the fact that they have committed this sin can be totally assured that they have not committed it.

But I dont see how you can say it has nothing to do with the heart when Jesus says "out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks".

I dont have saving faith

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