I dont have saving faith

[gray100]

But I dont see how you can say it has nothing to do with the heart when Jesus says "out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks".

The unforgivable sin had very much to do with the intentions of the Pharisees and what was going on in their hearts. The Pharisees wanted to destroy Jesus and His ministry at every cost because their hearts were so hardened against him.

I think the point I was trying to make is that the blasphemy against the Spirit can only committed by those who are already opposed to Christ's work and ministry and that judgement of this sin is based on the accusations the Pharisees had publically made about Him.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

But I dont see how you can say it has nothing to do with the heart when Jesus says "out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks".

Actually, he is speaking in context of scripture . the only other sin like this is the mark of the beast . and it is along the same lines . equating the devil to being God . what you're saying (in general, say the past five posts or so) sounds like your pride speaking . and if not, it certainly sounds like mine .

 

[RobertZ]

The unforgivable sin had very much to do with the intentions of the Pharisees and what was going on in their hearts. The Pharisees wanted to destroy Jesus and His ministry at every cost because their hearts were so hardened against him.

I think the point I was trying to make is that the blasphemy against the Spirit can only committed by those who are already opposed to Christ's work and ministry and that judgement of this sin is based on the accusations the Pharisees had publically made about Him.

Okay, well..........im still terrified that I commited this horrible sin. I mean God even went as far as cracking my wifes wedding band and used that to speak to my heart to let me know that he was aware of my looking at pornography and that my sins were not hidden from him.

That happened about 3yrs ago and you would think that would have been enough to make me fall on my knees and repent but I didnt even though I knew I should. I was an idiot and within 1 week I forgot about it and went right back into my sins for another 2yrs. Tell me that isnt a hardened heart?

How is this not sinning against the Holy Spirit? I knew God was talking to me about my sins yet I was stupid enough to continue on in my rebellion. Can you not see how I fit the profile of those in Proverbs who hardened their hearts to God and then when their time of trouble came upon them they cried out but it was too late because they constently ignored Gods dealings with them.

You see they cried out but it was not at the point and time that God was speaking to them, instead it was because of the calamity and disaster brought down on them, Gods judgement.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

How is this not sinning against the Holy Spirit?

What you're saying sounds like sins that fall under the category of judgment .

John 5:22
Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+12:31&version=NIVMatthew 12:31
And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

Since Jesus is our judge . forgiveness is assured .

but what you're saying reminds me of this song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPzjWwweUKE

 

[gray100]

Robert, perhaps I could try and describe what I think the unpardonable sin is means using a more contemporary illustration.

Let's assume someone has witnessed someone being healed in the name of Jesus. They have no excuse for denying that the healing had come about by God's power and therefore no excuse for denying Jesus as the Son of God. However, if that same person hated Jesus so much that they would prefer to go around publically blaspheming and discrediting His miracles to prevent others entering the Kingdom of God, then that kind of blasphemy would be extremely serious and would warrant the most severe judgement.

A similar kind of scenario would be someone asked to give evidence in court about an event they have witnessed involving a particular person. If they knew the individual had done what was good and right, but gave false testimony in order to have him charged, they would be guilty of a very serious offence. Even if the person was willing to forgive the person for the accusations that had been made, the one who gave false testimony would probably never have the courage to say sorry and that relationship would be permanently destroyed.

I don't think Jesus was saying that God would never forgive a person who came to Him, but what I think the point he was making was that people who commit such a dreadful blasphemy would be the very ones who would never seek His forgiveness, hence Jesus's comparison between the blasphemy against the Son of Man (speaking evil of God in ignorance) with the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (speaking evil of God after divine revelation and knowledge of who He is).

I think the situation you are describing is very different to the sin committed by the Pharisees. There are many Christians who took many years to finally repent and believe the gospel. There are many others who have backslidden along the journey (such as Peter, who denied Jesus three times). Not one of them has been excluded from God's grace - and God has not excluded you either.

You have not committed an unforgivable sin. What you have described in this and other threads doesn't come anything near to it.

 

[ezeric]

You stumble over the LARGEST THING!!


Dear RobertZ


Something HUGE happened between those parables and OT historic situations and now.

The CROSS!

You like many christians confuse the 2 covenants and don't realize that the cross changed EVERYTHING!

that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ
no longer counting people's sins against them.
2 Corinthians 5:19

HE also said "I will remember their sins no more". Hebrews 10:17

The Son Of Man did not come to the world to condemn the world but
to save the world. John 3:17

There is NO CONDEMNATION for those that are IN CHRIST JESUS.
Romans 8:1

The LORD doesn't remind us of our sins and beat us up over them. In fact it is the HOLY SPIRITS job to show us how we are righteous in HIM.

The world, HE convicts of sin
Us HE convicts of righteousness! John 16:8-10

HUGE DIFFERENCES!

If you believe, you are lost on your own and believe you need JESUS
as your ONLY hope. And that HE accepts you un-conditionally just where you are (garbage, sins and wickedness and all) and loves you so much.

Then you will not ever have HIM come to you for any sins and your heart will change (HE puts HIS new heart in you) Ezekiel 11:19 & 36:26
also John 3:3 and 2 Corinthians 5:17

Under the old covenant (where you are trying to live now, even though we are now under the better NEW COVENANT), it was your effort on one side and GOD'S on the other. The problem is our side, we could and will never get it right! We are wicked sinners and damned apart from CHRIST (even the best of us).

The NEW COVENANT is now between GOD and CHRIST (our representative).

Its not based on what we do but CHRIST alone.

Stop trying to live as a christian under the law and realize HE is not mad at you and all your sins have been put away at the cross.

Otherwise if GOD has placed HIS Judgement on JESUS (as the scripture says) and now wants to judge you that would be unjust.

Shall not the JUDGE of the earth do right? Gen 18:25

-eric

 

[rachel22]

robert if you want to be saved...if you want to walk in obedience and faith in the Lord Jesus.....tell him that you are ready (if you haven't done so already). maybe you have already been saved and are needing to grow, i dont know. i grew up hearing about Jesus over and over and i rejected him many times because i enjoyed my sins, and i did not understand that i needed to start living the way that Jesus taught instead of living however i wanted. i believe the Lord called me many times before i responded. i believe that it takes a work of God in someone's heart to make them desire to be saved and right with God and desire to live His way (instead of our own way). it looks like you are wanting those things, right? if you have rejected Jesus in the past....ok well, we are in the present. 2 corinthians 6:2 "For he says, 'in the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you.' I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation." so the point is, no it is not too late for you, no you are not beyond salvation no matter how much you think you are....but if you have not made that commitment to follow God for the rest of your life, now is the time to do that. dont put it off. that doesnt just go for you but it goes for everyone. the Lord Jesus would be very happy to have you come into his kingdom/family (if you have not done so already)....that is what he died for.

 

[RobertZ]

You stumble over the LARGEST THING!!


Dear RobertZ


Something HUGE happened between those parables and OT historic situations and now.

The CROSS!

You like many christians confuse the 2 covenants and don't realize that the cross changed EVERYTHING!

that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ
no longer counting people's sins against them.
2 Corinthians 5:19

HE also said "I will remember their sins no more". Hebrews 10:17

The Son Of Man did not come to the world to condemn the world but
to save the world. John 3:17

There is NO CONDEMNATION for those that are IN CHRIST JESUS.
Romans 8:1

The LORD doesn't remind us of our sins and beat us up over them. In fact it is the HOLY SPIRITS job to show us how we are righteous in HIM.

The world, HE convicts of sin
Us HE convicts of righteousness! John 16:8-10

HUGE DIFFERENCES!

If you believe, you are lost on your own and believe you need JESUS
as your ONLY hope. And that HE accepts you un-conditionally just where you are (garbage, sins and wickedness and all) and loves you so much.

Then you will not ever have HIM come to you for any sins and your heart will change (HE puts HIS new heart in you) Ezekiel 11:19 & 36:26
also John 3:3 and 2 Corinthians 5:17

Under the old covenant (where you are trying to live now, even though we are now under the better NEW COVENANT), it was your effort on one side and GOD'S on the other. The problem is our side, we could and will never get it right! We are wicked sinners and damned apart from CHRIST (even the best of us).

The NEW COVENANT is now between GOD and CHRIST (our representative).

Its not based on what we do but CHRIST alone.

Stop trying to live as a christian under the law and realize HE is not mad at you and all your sins have been put away at the cross.

Otherwise if GOD has placed HIS Judgement on JESUS (as the scripture says) and now wants to judge you that would be unjust.

Shall not the JUDGE of the earth do right? Gen 18:25

-eric

I dont understand something, if everyones sins were placed on Jesus at the cross then why does anyone go to hell?

 

[gray100]

I think you are being exceptionally hard on yourself Robert.

I don't know any Christians who have not resisted God's calling at various stages of their life and yet you seem to be convinced that your own personal situation is unique.

You have not committed an unpardonable sin, and that should be clear from the fact that God has moved many supportive and encouraging Christians, from all kinds of backgrounds and walks of life, to respond to you on these threads.

Everyone makes mistakes Robert, even the most saintly person who has walked this planet. It's just that some Christians, like yourself, are more willing to own up and admit their mistakes more than others. And all credit to you for doing so.

You have placed your faith in Christ and you can now rest assured that all your sins have been forgiven. You are not under any condemnation whatsoever and you can go in peace.

I would make a suggestion to you and that is to stop looking for signs or religious experiences to confirm your status as a beloved child of God. Start treating yourself as someone who is already valued by God. Discover or rediscover a hobby that you enjoy doing, go and visit someone who is needy and would appreciate your help. Get a good balance of food, sleep, exercise and do some of the practical things that will make you feel better. If you feel you would benefit from medical support, then accept it willingly and graciously. Start to foster a self-accepting attitude and treat yourself as a person of worth and dignity and through all this be sure to thank and praise God that you are valued and special to Him.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I dont understand something, if everyones sins were placed on Jesus at the cross then why does anyone go to hell?

You need to trust in Him .

 

[RobertZ]

You need to trust in Him .

But what is the answere to that question?

 

[RobertZ]

I think you are being exceptionally hard on yourself Robert. .

I dont think I am, I think im being honest with myself and what you have described as to being the unforgivable sin I can see how it applies to me. Gods spirit enlightened me time and time again about my sin that I was living in and yet I kept on in my rebellion.

Take Paul for example, suppose after he had his encounter with God on the road to damascus that instead of heeding Gods call he continued on in his sins killing Christians? You dont think that that continued rebellion after God enlightened him to his sin would eventually lead to him committing the unpardonable sin? Continuing in sin after God has told you its sin?

Ever read Hebrews 10:26-31? That passage of scripture does not speak very lightly about continued willfull sinning after recieving the knowledge of the truth.

 

[bunnydrop]

Hi im not as knowledgeable as you i expect in the bible but from what i have read God is your Father.You are his son.If you dont feel saved pray pray pray to God.Tell him your worries.He is the one to ask .this is what i always do.Grace is a gift from God.A free gift.not earnt,but given at Gods will or so i think.If i were you ,an i have been alot actually,i would pray to God,ask for help,direction,etc, Dont asumme what he is doing or done for you or has taken away or might.God has the answers not you.Dont make up Gods mind.Chat with him in your quiet time today.keep on talking with him,He wants you to pray an chat with him,this is your time now,Dont give up.God is worth it an so are you,He will decide what is best for you,not you,have peace my freind,relax an let God just love you.i havent beena christain long,but i do all this as its hard i know.also being saved etc isnt a feeling always.it just is.do let us know how you get along x

 

[gray100]

I dont think I am, I think im being honest with myself and what you have described as to being the unforgivable sin I can see how it applies to me. Gods spirit enlightened me time and time again about my sin that I was living in and yet I kept on in my rebellion.

As I said earlier, most Christians I know have gone through periods where they have failed God (both before and after their conversion). Even Peter did the same when he denied Jesus three times. Yet all of them were forgiven.

Take Paul for example, suppose after he had his encounter with God on the road to damascus that instead of heeding Gods call he continued on in his sins killing Christians? You dont think that that continued rebellion after God enlightened him to his sin would eventually lead to him committing the unpardonable sin? Doing that which is sin after God has told you its sin?

All of God's people sin, even though they are fully aware it is sin. All sin is willful and deliberate.

Any child of God can return to Him and be welcomed back. Look at the parable of the prodigal son who took his Father's inheritance and totally squandered it on irresponsible living. Of course there are consequences when people disobey God, but God still loves them and wants to restore and heal them. And if Jesus told us to forgive our brother seventy times seven, how much more is God willing to forgive us when we get things wrong?

Ever read Hebrews 10:26-31? That passage of scripture does not speak very lightly about continued willfull sinning after recieving the knowledge of the truth.

The theme of that passage is to do with falling away from the faith. It refers to Christians who had explicitly and publically renounced their faith and became apostates. I can't see how that applies to your situation in any way.

 

[Walkntune]

I dont think I am, I think im being honest with myself and what you have described as to being the unforgivable sin I can see how it applies to me. Gods spirit enlightened me time and time again about my sin that I was living in and yet I kept on in my rebellion.

Take Paul for example, suppose after he had his encounter with God on the road to damascus that instead of heeding Gods call he continued on in his sins killing Christians? You dont think that that continued rebellion after God enlightened him to his sin would eventually lead to him committing the unpardonable sin? Continuing in sin after God has told you its sin?

Ever read Hebrews 10:26-31? That passage of scripture does not speak very lightly about continued willfull sinning after recieving the knowledge of the truth.

I am really touched by your posts because i have been through exactly what you are dealing with and if fact as I run across people like yourself I really understand why I have dealt with my own experiences.
The first thing I am going to tell you is God has got you and your mind is a liar.If God was done with you you would not even care but obviously you are in a battle between your mind and your heart.
I struggled with the exact same thing of trying to find God in my mind when I so desperately wanted him in my heart and everytime I thought maybe I was on the path my mind would creep up and tell me that I couldn't feel God or couldn't see His hand move in my life and what little faith I mustered up would seem to just fall to the ground and shatter and I would have to pick up the pieces and start all over stuck in the same rut.I also felt suicidal and hopeless and fear of hell itself kept me alive. I am going to tell you now your mind is a liar and not in control and the only way past where you are is to quit listening to the fears it keeps putting in you and just standfirm that the Word of God is true and every man (including yourself) is a liar.The Bible tells you not to lean on your own understanding but to trust God.You can't go by how you feel or think.You will just have to choose to believe Jesus died for you and refuse to let those thoughts burden you.I know this is extremely hard but the truth is you are going to have to die to your flesh because you have let it get strong and if you trust me and what I am saying your spirit will come back to life and your heart will become soft and pliable and it will be quicker then you think and you will also know it was the Lord and not yourself.
I don't believe you are going to find this feeling you are searching for and that keeps you in a rut. You are going to suffer first by killing the flesh and refusing to let the thoughts come in and dominate you.
Just stand on the truth and it will set you free.
No matter how hard it is to go against those thoughts you have to keep going and resisting them.They are liars and God has a huge plan for you and when you get on the other side of this I promise you won't regret any of the struggle as it will have been nothing more than a build up of faith.
I am praying for you and if you need any encouragement feel free to pm or whatever!
I hope this helps.

 

[RobertZ]

I am really touched by your posts because i have been through exactly what you are dealing with and if fact as I run across people like yourself I really understand why I have dealt with my own experiences.
The first thing I am going to tell you is God has got you and your mind is a liar.If God was done with you you would not even care but obviously you are in a battle between your mind and your heart.
I struggled with the exact same thing of trying to find God in my mind when I so desperately wanted him in my heart and everytime I though maybe I was on the path my mind would creep up and tell me that I couldn't feel God or couldn't see His hand move in my life and what little faith I mustered up would seem to just fall to the ground and shatter and I would have to pick up the pieces and start all over stuck in the same rut.I also felt suicidal and hopeless and fear of hell itself kept me alive. I am going to tell you now your mind is a liar and not in control and the only way past where you are is to quit listening to the fears it keeps putting in you and just standfirm that the Word of God is true and every man (including yourself) is a liar.The Bible tells you not to lean on your own understanding but to trust God.You can't go by how you feel or think.You will just have to choose to believe Jesus died for you and refuse to let those thoughts burden you.I know this is extremely hard but the truth is you are going to have to die to your flesh because you have let it get strong and if you trust me and what I am saying your spirit will come back to life and your heart will become soft and pliable and it will be quicker then you think and you will also know it was the Lord and not yourself.
I don't believe you are going to find this feeling you are searching for and that keeps you in a rut. You are going to suffer first by killing the flesh and refusing to let the thoughts come in and dominate you.
Just stand on the truth and it will set you free.
No matter how hard it is to go against those thoughts you have to keep going and resisting them.They are liars and God has a huge plan for you and when you get on the other side of this I promise you won't regret any of the struggle as it will have been nothing more than a build up of faith.
I am praying for you and if you need any encouragement feel free to pm or whatever!
I hope this helps.

Thank you, its encouraging to see someone else has gone through this. I know to most people here I probably look like a stubborn idiot but as you know this struggle is very very very real and unless a person has been through it they will never understand.

So many people in this thread are trying to help me and I appreciate each and every one of you even if it does not seem like I do.

 

[Walkntune]

Thank you, its encouraging to see someone else has gone through this. I know to most people here I probably look like a stubborn idiot but as you know this struggle is very very very real and unless a person has been through it they will never understand.

So many people in this thread are trying to help me and I appreciate each and every one of you even if it does not seem like I do.

Everyone battles between the mind and spirit! Right now all you can hear is your mind.
If you refuse the to believe the thoughts and stand on Jesus, this dying of the flesh will set you free.
For me it took maybe three or four days of what felt like torture from not listening to my mind before I gained strength over my mind and could hear from my heart again.Once your feet hit the pavement and you see the light again you are going to take off!LOL

 

[RobertZ]

It only took you 3-4 days? I wish I could say the same. I have been in this state for a year and a half now and its not only taking a toll on me spiritually but physically, mentally and its putting a strain on my marriage.

 

[Walkntune]

It only took you 3-4 days? I wish I could say the same. I have been in this state for a year and a half now and its not only taking a toll on me spiritually but physically, mentally and its putting a strain on my marriage.

I was in that state for ten years! Once i decided to refuse to listen to the thoughts and fight them off it took about 3 or 4 days to overcome them.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

But what is the answere to that question?

the question was "I dont understand something, if everyones sins were placed on Jesus at the cross then why does anyone go to hell?"

My Answer was "You need to trust Him"

How this relates to your question is that Jesus became sin so we might be the righteousness of God . Those who trust in Him do . those who do not trust in Him do not . as it is written to the foolish virgins "i never knew you" as without trust you cannot have or establish a relationship . without trust . this whole salvation thing is not going to work .

Jesus may have "died for the sins of the whole world" as a passage in one of the John letters says .. but one must trust in Him .. for Him to be found in them .