I dont have saving faith

[RobertZ]

That is whats wrong with me I think, some how growing up in church and being exposed to the gospel all of my 37 years on this earth I have missed the grace of God and now I do not know how to believe.

This whole stupid sinners prayer stuff and emotional alter calls of modern days have ruined what salvation is supposed to be. You will not find any of that stuff in the Bible in regards to salvation and I always was taught to believe that you just ask Jesus into your heart and its a done deal. Show me in the Bible where you ask Jesus into your heart? And please dont use the scripture from Revelation about Jesus standing at the door and knocking because that scripture isnt talking about the door to a persons heart. Its talking about Jesus knocking on the door of the apostate church which has gone astray.

I have hardened my heart through sin and deciet and I have just enough head knowledge of the Bible to send me straight to Hell. I have read the Gospels over and over and nothing happens, my heart feels as though its getting harder and harder now against my own will. The harder I try to learn and find saving faith the harder my heart becomes.

The most genuine Christians I know of are the ones that Just simply believed on Jesus sometime in their life for salvation, I always thought they were not saved because they didnt say the sinners prayer but boy was I wrong!

I know God was dealing with me when I was younger, I know he was, I just didnt know how to simply believe or trust and now all my opportunity has slipped right by, I have gone past my day of grace and without Gods grace you cannot believe because its only by the grace of God that anyone believes!

Please do not try to tell me that death is the cut off because that doesnt stand for someone who has been exposed to the Gospel and have hardened his heart to the point of permanent unbelief and I can show scripture to back up my points here. My life has no purpose, im only 37yrs old and my fate is already sealed to Hell. I hate who I am, I hate the fact I was ever born and suicide is becoming a common thought here lately.

I dont even know why im typing this, so stupid, so stupid to miss the best free gift I could have ever recieved.

 

[Lucis]

The post you are writing seem absurd in the way that you seem to clearly believe in the Christian teachings, since you talk with so much certainty about it, yet you claim to not believe. You believe Jesus was and is not the son of God?

 

[insertwittycommenthere]

Now, I am going to try to answer this as a secularist, and these aren't my views, but I think you will find them helpful.

Well from the way I see it, you are afraid of Hell and don't want to go there when you die. Now, If you truly believe Hell exists, then Shouldn't God or a similar figure exist as well?

Or, forgive me if I am misinterpreting this wrong, but another possible view is that you truly don't believe in God or Jesus or even Hell, but you are fearing what would happen if you are wrong and God does exist. If this is the case, then I would reread the bible and pay close attention to it and ask yourself: Do I truly believe in God and Jesus? If yes, poof, you are now a happy Christian and don't need to worry about going to Hell as long as you live a proper Christian Life. If the answer is no, then poof, you are not a Christian and since you don't believe in the bible, then you won't need to worry about hell or salvation, since in your opinion it won't exist.

Also, if you choose christianity, there is no beyond redemption unless you committed some kind of genocide, and even then, there is a small chance you might be saved.

 

[RobertZ]

The post you are writing seem absurd in the way that you seem to clearly believe in the Christian teachings, since you talk with so much certainty about it, yet you claim to not believe. You believe Jesus was and is not the son of God?

Sure, I know in my head that the Bible is true but thats the extent of it. Headknowledge and saving faith are two different things altogether. Even the demons believe yet they tremble in fear.

Even the pharisees believed in their heads but not with their hearts. Saving faith is what I need but cannot for the life of me grasp. The only thing that comes to mind is the unpardonable sin and that happens when a person resist and rejects and sins against him to the point that he withdraws forever leaving the person to the damned.

Its the only thing that makes sense to me, its the Holy Spirit who enables you to believe on Jesus and since I cant seem to believe on him for saving faith and I have been in this situation for nearly 2 yrs now what else could it be?

 

[RobertZ]

Or, forgive me if I am misinterpreting this wrong, but another possible view is that you truly don't believe in God or Jesus or even Hell, but you are fearing what would happen if you are wrong and God does exist.

No, I do believe they exist. God, Jesus and The Holy Spirit along with Heaven and Hell. I have been in church all my life and even went to a Bible believing God fearing Christian School for 12yrs so I know its all true.

Problem is I never let Gods grace melt my heart, I resisted and resisted until I guess I resisted one to many times and the Holy Spirit ceased to strive with me.

Now im conciously aware of what has happened and I find myself in a horrible horrible condition! to know I could drop dead at any moment in my sins and be in unimaginable pain for all eternity is horrifying but even worse is now being beyond all hope of rescue.

 

[Lucis]

Do you believe in Jesus or not? That is the issue. Do you believe that Jesus exist, like you believe that distant galaxies exist beyond those we cannot see yet with the tools we got? If you got the Spirit or not can be tested. What feels more natural for you, to say that Jesus is the Lord, or "damned be Jesus"? Cause if you do believe that Jesus is real and not fake, and that He is LORD and not a fool, then your issue is no issue anymore.

 

[Lucis]

No, I do believe they exist. God, Jesus and The Holy Spirit along with Heaven and Hell.

There you go, you are a Christian, not a damned person. You are going to live forever in heaven when you die.

 

[RobertZ]

There you go, you are a Christian, not a damned person. You are going to live forever in heaven when you die.

I dont have saving faith so how can you say that? Its just head knowledge for me.

 

[Lucis]

Problem is I never let Gods grace melt my heart, I resisted and resisted until I guess I resisted one to many times and the Holy Spirit ceased to strive with me.

Now im conciously aware of what has happened and I find myself in a horrible horrible condition! to know I could drop dead at any moment in my sins and be in unimaginable pain for all eternity is horrifying but even worse is now being beyond all hope of rescue.

This is imaginary, even if it feels real. If you have sinned, you are forgiven when you ask for forgiveness. Everyone sin, even sins that just go on and on and on and never let go. Everyone is weak. There is not 1 good person on earth the bible tells us. We all are sinners.

 

[RobertZ]

This is imaginary, even if it feels real. If you have sinned, you are forgiven when you ask for forgiveness. Everyone sin, even sins that just go on and on and on and never let go. Everyone is weak. There is not 1 good person on earth the bible tells us. We all are sinners.

I understand we are all sinners but there comes a time in a sinners life if he doesnt yield to God then God will indeed withdraw saving grace from that person.

Look in Romans and see how God deals with unrepentant sinners, he gives them up to their sins!

And look in Hebrews about the warning against willfull sinning, it says that no sacrafice remains for one who sins willfully after recieving the knowledge of the truth and it warns against insulting the spirit of Grace which is what I did for 10yrs by looking at porn every single day while being married to make it even worse.


Hebrews 10:26-31

 

[insertwittycommenthere]

If you believe you are going to Hell and cannot be saved, then that is exactly what is going to happen. What you need to do then, is not only prove to God, but yourself that you are a good person and deserve salvation. What you need to do is follow the bible, do good deeds, go to church, etc. Remember God does love you, and does not want to send you to hell if he can prevent it. All you need to do is be a good person and soon you'll be filled with his light once again.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

If you are still concerned . then The Spirit of God has not stopped trying . it is impossible to even care who God is without the guidance God provides .

(it took a while to find this one . hope it helps . )

Job 33
25 His flesh shall be fresher than a child’s: he shall return to the days of his youth:
26 He shall pray unto God, and he will be favourable unto him: and he shall see his face with joy: for he will render unto man his righteousness.
27 He looketh upon men, and if any say, I have sinned, and perverted that which was right, and it profited me not;
28 He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light.

Praying for you .

 

[RobertZ]

If you believe you are going to Hell and cannot be saved, then that is exactly what is going to happen. What you need to do then, is not only prove to God, but yourself that you are a good person and deserve salvation. What you need to do is follow the bible, do good deeds, go to church, etc. Remember God does love you, and does not want to send you to hell if he can prevent it. All you need to do is be a good person and soon you'll be filled with his light once again.

Your implying that good deeds etc are a way to earn forgiveness and salvation and that is far from the truth. We are not saved by good works nor do good works save us. There is nothing that you, I or anyone else can offer to God that will save us. This is doing everything else but trusting in his son and I think thats an insult to God.

Also no one is a good person in Gods eyes, we are all sinners and thats how he sees us till we are born again. Also no one deserves salvation, we all deserve damnation and its only by Gods grace that anyone goes to Heaven.

I know your trying to help and I appreciate it but I cant agree with a person trying to prove to God through good works that they deserve salvation.

 

[Lucis]

I understand we are all sinners but there comes a time in a sinners life if he doesnt yield to God then God will indeed withdraw saving grace from that person.

Look in Romans and see how God deals with unrepentant sinners, he gives them up to their sins!

And look in Hebrews about the warning against willfull sinning, it says that no sacrafice remains for one who sins willfully after recieving the knowledge of the truth and it warns against insulting the spirit of Grace which is what I did for 10yrs by looking at porn every single day while being married to make it even worse.

Hebrews 10:26-31

Remember that there is only 1 unforgivable sin and not 2. Blasphemy/sinning against the Holy Spirit cuts away what would have planted a seed inside of us that (no matter what happens) will grow to a new being by Christ and let us live forever. Looking at porn for 10 years is no unforgivable sin. I have fallen before too, I was saved and then I stopped caring about Jesus for many years, and have done worse sins then you, but here I am, back talking about Jesus that you think have abandoned you. All you have to do is to repent your sins, as I see you already do, and ask for forgiveness, then all this fear you got, will go away.

 

[RobertZ]

If you are still concerned . then The Spirit of God has not stopped trying . it is impossible to even care who God is without the guidance God provides .

(it took a while to find this one . hope it helps . )

Job 33
25 His flesh shall be fresher than a child’s: he shall return to the days of his youth:
26 He shall pray unto God, and he will be favourable unto him: and he shall see his face with joy: for he will render unto man his righteousness.
27 He looketh upon men, and if any say, I have sinned, and perverted that which was right, and it profited me not;
28 He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light.

Praying for you .

Thanks, that does help a bit but if Gods Spirit is still striving with me then why on earth am I not able to be saved? I have been like this for 2yrs now and to be honest with you its all but ruined me, completely.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Thanks, that does help a bit but if Gods Spirit is still striving with me then why on earth am I not able to be saved? I have been like this for 2yrs now and to be honest with you its all but ruined me, completely.

I recall the story of the first gentile christian who Peter went to meet he was of the merciful sort . and i recall a passage in Jeremiah of a similar note . "He judged the cause of the poor and needy; then it was well with him: was not this to know me? saith the LORD"

But more specifically, speaking of when i was in a similar place but not yet realizing it . i would use the bible to try and subdue my sins . it even produced a form of heat and and times "fire" but this only forged around me an armour that enslaved me so no matter how much living water came down .. it would never reach my heart .

as my spiritual being reached a place of maturity that seriously needed consistent nourishment from God direct contact .. that was when the othello board turned from day to night . and my thoughts were so negative and i would blame all my problems on the behavior of others .

I don't know your story of what has happened over the past two years . but the one lifesaving word that helped me get back on track was from luke "clean the cup on the inside so that the outside of the cup will be clean also" everything began to change rapidly after that . though it looked like i was so far from any semblance of Godliness on the outside .. on the inside .. there was peace . peace i hadn't felt in many many years .

Knowing this . and how far to the depths i went and still sought out God in that dark place where i couldn't remember scripture .. i still knew the name of Jesus and our beginning so many years ago . it was a new beginning . so knowing this . i know there is hope for you also .

but the direct answer to your question .. may have to wait as God and you go in process with one another . for me it was the idol of my understanding .. but God is keeping from me what your particular issue is but i know humility is a great place to start .

Love you man and feel free to PM me if you need anything or need to talk .

 

[Andrea4501]

Y'know, if anything, it sounds like you're having a wakeup call. And -- before you judge me on this post -- I've been where you've been talking about (depression, self-hurt, suicidal thoughts) and had a similar thing happen three weeks ago where I felt like God did abandon me. I kept resisting and resisting for years, and then one day cursed Him......and the voice/urging immediately went away. I was mortified.

You've been exposed to the church, you're very knowledgeable about the Bible, but it seems like you've yet to experience what true faith is and the overpowering love of God (to be fair, I haven't experienced it fully either. It's a journey I've just recently embarked on.) That obviously upsets you, perhaps scares you, and it makes your mind turn to dark thoughts.

But -- have you ever thought that your mind, where it is now, could lead you to God? Instead of turning to suicide, you turn here. You took the time to write up this post and follow up responses, so it's obvious you're looking for help. Instead of completely resisting faith, you're looking for what true salvation means. As Michael said, the Spirit has got to be working in you if you're concerned and you're searching for answers. And, can we safely assume, that since the Spirit is working in you, He probably WANTS you to find your answer, and you WILL find your answer if you keep looking?

Just wanted to say, don't despair. Because you still care about these matters, is a very, very good sign that God did not abandon you at all.

We'll be praying for you.

 

[annrobert]

That is whats wrong with me I think, some how growing up in church and being exposed to the gospel all of my 37 years on this earth I have missed the grace of God and now I do not know how to believe.


Ask God.

There was a man who cried out to Jesus,Lord I believe,help Thou my unbelief.I prayed similiar prayers in my life also.
Jesus hears our prayers.
I think you do believe very much in your heart and spirit.
However feelings can be very very intense and so strong that it is hard to feel anything else.
But feelings are not Truth.
Jesus said he that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out.

God has never forsaken those who seek Him, which you are doing.

The fear and pain will not last forever, neither do they mean you are doomed.
Robert you are not doomed,Jesus loves you and has not cast you out,
no matter what terrible feelings you may feel.
God loves you Robert
You also have a deep love and respect for Truth.
You are keeping Jesus on your mind and seeking Him.
Jesus has not and never will cast you out.
Robert Jesus is welcoming you to Him,please please know that.
Jesus loves you.
You are not too difficult for God who has His arms open wide to you.
You are under grace,mercy triumphs over justice.

This whole stupid sinners prayer stuff and emotional alter calls of modern days have ruined what salvation is supposed to be. You will not find any of that stuff in the Bible in regards to salvation and I always was taught to believe that you just ask Jesus into your heart and its a done deal. Show me in the Bible where you ask Jesus into your heart? And please dont use the scripture from Revelation about Jesus standing at the door and knocking because that scripture isnt talking about the door to a persons heart. Its talking about Jesus knocking on the door of the apostate church which has gone astray.

I have hardened my heart through sin and deciet and I have just enough head knowledge of the Bible to send me straight to Hell. I have read the Gospels over and over and nothing happens, my heart feels as though its getting harder and harder now against my own will. The harder I try to learn and find saving faith the harder my heart becomes.

human hearts are deceitful and wicked above all things.
However Jesus cleanses us from all unrighteousness and makes all things new and gives us a soft heart.The human heart is not too difficult for God,
Jesus restores our soul, He makes all things new,
He gives us a soft heart.

The most genuine Christians I know of are the ones that Just simply believed on Jesus sometime in their life for salvation, I always thought they were not saved because they didnt say the sinners prayer but boy was I wrong!

I know God was dealing with me when I was younger, I know he was, I just didnt know how to simply believe or trust and now all my opportunity has slipped right by, I have gone past my day of grace and without Gods grace you cannot believe because its only by the grace of God that anyone believes!

The gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Please do not try to tell me that death is the cut off because that doesnt stand for someone who has been exposed to the Gospel and have hardened his heart to the point of permanent unbelief and I can show scripture to back up my points here. My life has no purpose, im only 37yrs old and my fate is already sealed to Hell. I hate who I am, I hate the fact I was ever born and suicide is becoming a common thought here lately.


but now God commands all men everywhere to repent.

right now, not in the past, but now God commands all men everywhere to repent.

Jesus will not cast out anyone who comes to Him.

God has never forsaken those who seek Him which you are doing.

Jesus says come to Me ALL you who labour and are heavy laden and I will give you rest.
All means all.
Robert Jesus loves you so deeply and He is not casting you out, no no no no no
Jesus loves you

no matter the powerful feelings you have

I dont even know why im typing this, so stupid, so stupid to miss the best free gift I could have ever recieved.

Jesus welcomes
He is Mighty to save

His mercy triumphs over justice

He is our Saviour and Lord

His mercy is new every morning

He is tender and compassionate

when we were yet without strength Christ died for the ungodly

His gifts and calling are without repentance

Jesus loves you Robert


truly He does

 

[annrobert]

About that Hebrews verse,

if we sin wilfully after coming to a knowledge of the Truth there no longer remaineth a sacrifice for sin.



is that one sin or two, or three,or ten, or 100


the bible says if we say we have no sin we are a liar and the Truth is not in us.

the bible says if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness.

Jesus said to forgive 490 times,

His ways are higher than ours as the heavens are higher than the earth

mercy triumphs over justice

Robert please know that Jesus has not and will not cast you out
He has great mercy and compassion and loves you tenderly

just come

keep hoping because hope does not disappoint

Galatians 3


1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

 

[Thir7ySev3n]

Jesus' parable of the prodigal son illustrates the vastness of God's love, grace and mercy better than anything that I could say to you, especially since they are the authoritative words of Jesus/God Himself. So I will simply recite His parable, and, even if you already know this parable, as I am sure that you do, read over it slowly and open your heart to understand and receive the forgiveness that God longs to give to all His children. I have added emphasis on the sections of the parable which I think are most relevant to your situation.

Luke 15:11-32

"There was a man who had two sons. The younger one said to his father, 'Father, give me my share of the estate.' So he divided his property between them. Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need.

So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything. When he came to his senses, he said, 'How many of my father's hired men have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired men.'

So he got up and went to his father. But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him. The son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son. But the father said to his servants, 'Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let's have a feast and celebrate. For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.'

So they began to celebrate. Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 'Your brother has come,' he replied, 'and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.' The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. But he answered his father, 'Look! All these years I've been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!' 'My son,' the father said, 'you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' "

Notice that in the parable, Jesus uses the example of a son who had gathered together ALL that he had and spent it ALL in wild living, squandering the fathers property on prostitutes. And yet look how his father greeted him when he returned. Not with anger or wrath, but with rejoicing, with gifts, singing and dancing. God knows far more than us about the eternal horrors of the lake of fire, and is also far more loving and merciful than we could ever be. So in consideration of both those facts, it is no wonder that God would greet us in such a way when we turn from the path that takes us to the place that His Son suffered and died to keep us from.

According to what you have said, you, just like the prodigal son, have squandered your Father's posessions (your body) on prostitutes (porn "stars"). But, just like the prodigal son in the parable, God wants to greet and forgive you in the same way, with open arms, gifts of righteousness, love, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, and with eternal rejoicing in heaven with all His angels at your repentance.

I understand that it may not always feel like God has forgiven you, but part of receiving that true relationship with God that you are asking for is trusting in God and His love regardless of your feelings or circumstances. Would you not still be willing to love and forgive your son if he had been disobedient to you, even for 10 years? How much more would God, who is far more loving than we are, be willing to love and forgive you, even to the point of sending His Son to die to give you that forgiveness. Do not forget that "God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)

You have not commited the unforgivable sin, as the others have already demonstrated. The only time Jesus ever accused anyone of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit was when they persistently rejected Him to the point of calling Him demon-posessed even after all the miracles He had performed in their presense proving He was from God. So the unforgivable sin is obvious; it is just the permanent state of willing denial in which a person persists in their rejection of Jesus regardless of any evidence they are given. And clearly by your dismay and desire to be forgiven in Jesus' name, this is not the case for you.

We have all been where you are and no doubt will be there again sometime in the future. It is one of the trials even a perfectly righteous man like Job must face now and again, to test our faith and be sure that it is true. For as Jesus said, "Everyone will be salted with fire." (Mark 9:49)

Trust in God for the forgiveness of your sins and do not lose hope. Believe and live according to His Word, which, like God Himself, is the same yesterday, today, and tomorow, and not in your feelings, which change like seasons and "shifting shadows."

God bless you, and I will be praying for you.