I dont get it....

[RGL1]

1 Corinthians 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

A dispensation of the gospel was committed to Paul.

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

The dispensation of the grace of God was given to Paul to give to 'us-ward'.

Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
Colossians 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

The dispensation of God was given to Paul to fulfill the word of God...even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and generations BUT NOW is made manifest to his saints.
Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

There has always been grace in each dispensation, God has always shown mercy and grace BUT NOW He is declaring grace and peace...in the dispensation of the grace of God. (eph. 3:2)

In the early chapters of Romans Paul speaks to both. Jew and Gentile.

 

[RGL1]

1 Corinthians 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

A dispensation of the gospel was committed to Paul.

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

The dispensation of the grace of God was given to Paul to give to 'us-ward'.

Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
Colossians 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

The dispensation of God was given to Paul to fulfill the word of God...even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and generations BUT NOW is made manifest to his saints.
Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

There has always been grace in each dispensation, God has always shown mercy and grace BUT NOW He is declaring grace and peace...in the dispensation of the grace of God. (eph. 3:2)

What does the word dispensation mean?
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Strong's Number: 3622[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica] Browse Lexicon[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Original Word[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Word Origin[/FONT] oijkonomiva [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]from (3623)[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Transliterated Word[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]TDNT Entry[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Oikonomia[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]5:151,674[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Phonetic Spelling[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Parts of Speech[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]oy-kon-om-ee'-ah [/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Noun Feminine [/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica] Definition[/FONT]

1. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]
   [*]the management of a household or of household affairs
   1. specifically, the management, oversight, administration, of other's property
   2. the office of a manager or overseer, stewardship
   3. administration, dispensation
   [/FONT]

Grace has always been dispensed and administered, and God has always managed His household by it.

 

[Dispy]

RGL1, You posted:

Dumbed down (way down) version.

Many believe only a small portion of the bible is for Christians and build major doctines out of one word such as dispensation, mystery,etc. Much of the gospel is a slice-and-dice split-gospel message. They split up God's faithful/saved people into multiple separated groups, Very confusing.
Many statements are made by dispy leaders/founders (JN Darby, CI Scofield, etc.) without proper scriptural backing based on personal preference and presuppositions. As a system of bible interpretation it is a relatively new theology in history, mid 1800's.

If you don't believe it they'll tell you don't understand grace or something like that.

I responed to what you posted by the following:

As one that considers himself as a non-denominational dispensationalist, and I do believe that I speak for the majority of those like minded believers, I would say that we be believe every word of God from Genesis 1:1 through Revelation 22:21. However, I do not follow the vast majority the OT Civil, Moral and Ceremonial Laws. For those that do likewise, then become dispensationalist also wheter they like to consider themselves dispensationals or not. Also, we study the Bible in the context in which it was written, paying much attention as to when, to whom, and what was required of those to whom it was written to at that time in human history.

When one speaks of "split up groups," I think of major protestant denominationalism. They take the doctrine (gospel) of of Law and mix it with the doctrine (gospel) of grace. That is what I call "a scrambled egg doctrine." Each denomination has a little different receipe as how to mix it, and then serve their followers an "omlet" to their liking. It is the denominationalist that split themselves up into many different groups. Go to your yellow pages in your phone book and just count how many denominations you find.

Those that make outrages accusations about other, should take a look in a mirror once in a while.

Yes, I wiil admit that all dispensationalists agree with every point of doctrine.

Dispensationalism is not a relatively new theology. It is neither a denomination or specific doctrine. It is primarily a manner in how one study the Scriptures. Not all persons study the Bible in the same manner, therefore one will find many different points of view.

Paul himself was a dispensationalist. He speaks of three different dispensations in Ephesians 2 alone. In verses 11-12 he speaks of TIMES PAST. How things were when when there was a "middle wall of partition" between the Jew and Gentile.

In verse 13 he speaks of BUT NOW. as to how that wall has been broken down throug the blood of Christ. It didn't used to be that way.

In verse 7, he speaks of AGES TO COME, how God will bring His purposes to fruition.

Please don't give Darby or Scofield credit for what God instituted. Then you did it in a discrediting way. Shame on you.

How come you DID NOT respond to what I wrote to you, but changed the subject entirely?

 

[Dispy]

I don't want to put everyone into the same box. Some of them are more extreme than others. Many extreme dispys say Jesus was never speaking to us when he made his demands for commitment and obedience. Some consider Jesus unenlightened, compared to us because he didn't know the mystery.

It seems that when ever they read a uncomfortable requirement from God or Jesus they simply put a stamp on the envelope of the gospels that says: Please forward to the nearest Jew. That way they don't have to live with the responsibility and accountability to the Lord. Its ingenious.

How come you did not respond to my comments on Matthew 5,6&7? How are you doing in following those instructions? Or are you putting a Jewish address on them? Did you find Kimberlyann's address on observing the Jewish feast days, or did you put a Jewish address on them also? How about all those Sabbath day laws? Do you find Kimberlyann's name on them, or did you put a Jewish address on them? I'll even go so far as to say that there a lot of other OT instruction to Israel that you will not put Kimberlyann's name on.

If you are not following all the instructions that God gave the OT saints, then you too are a dispensationalist wheter you like to admit it or not.

BTW Jesus knew the mystery that was later revealed to Paul, but He knew that that information was "classified" and not to be revealed until a later date.

It might be helpful to define some words that are often interchanged as if they are virtually one and the same. It is important that we understand the meanings of these words.

1. Affliction: Keyword Concordance, anguish, persecution, tribulation, trouble, ill treatment, suffering. Webster’s: affliction, any cause of pain or suffering.
AND
2.Tribulation: Keyword Concordance, affliction Webster’s: tribulation, great misery or distress
VERSUS
3.Wrath: Keyword Concordance, fury, indignation, vexation Webster’s: wrath, intense anger, rage, fury, vengeance
AND
4.Indignation: Keyword Concd., anger, vengeance, wrath Webster’s: Adj.-- indignation, expressing anger especially unjust or mean actions. Noun-- righteous anger.

​

Notice that "affliction" and "tribulation" are nearly synonymous. Notice also, that "wrath" and "indignation" are nearly synonymous. "Affliction" can be defined as "tribulation," and "tribulation" can be defined as "affliction." Likewise, "wrath" can be defined as "indignation," and "indignation" can be defined as "wrath." But, the first two words, "affliction and tribulation" are not synonymous with the second two words, "wrath and indignation."

The above terms can also be used as specific time or can be used in a general manner. In 1 Thessalonians I do believe that Paul is using those words with the specific meaning of the Tribulation spoken of by the prophet Daniel.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]The King James Version [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Thessalonians 5 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. [/FONT]



This says God did not appoint us to wrath. And I agree. Gods wrath is never poured out on his saints.


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Thessalonians 1 [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come. [/FONT][/FONT]


But, Nowhere does it say God has not appointed us to trials and tribulations. If fact, Paul tells us we enter the Kingdom by going through them.


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Acts 14 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that mus wet through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God. [/FONT]

Paul told the Thessalonians that no one is to be swayed by these afflictions.


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Thessalonians 3 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]3:4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know. [/FONT]

In 1Thess,4:13-18 Paul is speaking to believer that are members of the Body of Christ who have a heavenly hope and home. Paul is writing tyo them because of a false letter/letters written to them saying they were going to go through the Tribulation (the times of Jacobs's troubles/the day of the Lord).

Now lets look at 5:1-10:

5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

If one will study Matt.24, one will learn that there are signs that point to the coming Tribulation. However, there are no signs that preceed the rapture of the Church. Being the Church, the Body of Christ, will be raptured prior to the Tribulation/day of the Lord, There is no need for Paul to write to them about it.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, (believers) brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5 Ye (believers) are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we (believers) are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us (believers)not sleep, as do others; (unbelievers)[/COLOR but let us(believers) watch and be sober.

7 For they un-believers0 that sleep sleep in the night; and they unbelievers) that be drunken are drunken in the night.

8 But let us, (believers)who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

9 For God hath not appointed us (believers)to wrath,(The Tribulation/day of the Lord))[/COLOR but to obtain salvation (via the Rapture) by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, believers that, whether we believers) wake or sleep, we (Believers)should live together with him.

 

[RGL1]

RGL1, You posted:



I responed to what you posted by the following:



How come you DID NOT respond to what I wrote to you, but changed the subject entirely?

I did respond. Check out #17 & 20
You mentioned the law and gospel in your post.

 

[RGL1]

Considering the moderators post:
If I offended anyone, please send a PM so we can clear it up.

 

[Dispy]

"Paul himself was a dispensationalist. He speaks of three different dispensations in Ephesians 2 alone. In verses 11-12 he speaks of TIMES PAST. How things were when when there was a "middle wall of partition" between the Jew and Gentile.

In verse 13 he speaks of BUT NOW. as to how that wall has been broken down throug the blood of Christ. It didn't used to be that way.

In verse 7, he speaks of AGES TO COME, how God will bring His purposes to fruition.

Please don't give Darby or Scofield credit for what God instituted. Then you did it in a discrediting way. Shame on you."

Pure presuppositional dispensationalism.
Paul was a dispensationalist? Really? When and where did he ever call himself that?!
Three dispensations? Well, that all depends on which dipensationalist you talk too or what book you read.

There are only two found in the bible. New and Old.

Man has been under grace since Adam sinned.

The age to come is GLORY!

Shame on me?

Yes, shame on you for giving Darby and Scofield credit for God's doings.

Paul states in 1Cor.9:17 "...a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me." This looks like Paul was given a different dispensational gospel then what was previously preach. Also, one can find numerous dispensations in the Bible

The seperation in our modern Bibles between the Old and New Testament are derived by man NOT God. In fact, I view the four Gospels as a continuation of the "so called" Old Testament.

Since the fall of Adam, God has always been graceous in that He has always provided a means in which fallen man could be saved/justified. The doctrine of grace that Paul preached was kept secret since the world began.

The "age to come" is the earthly kingdom that Jesus will establish at His second coming.

 

[biblebeliever123]

God is a God of grace. There has always been grace in dispensations but NOW we have the dispensation of the grace of God.... grace abundantly poured out...that was not always the case and we can readily see that from scripture.
Do we see God dealing out his wrath now? Israel would rebel and they would be judged. Sin in the camp of Israel was judged immediately. It was not grace shed abundantly as we have now.
In every one of Paul's epistles it opens with 'grace and peace'. Check it out. That is not just a nice greeting, a friendly way of starting a letter..but rather a declaration of what God is doing ....declaring grace and peace.

Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
In the dispensation of the grace of God we see that GRACE REIGNS.

Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

2 Corinthians 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Paul as the apostle to the gentiles has more to say about grace than any other BIble writer. Please check it out and see how he speaks of this grace appearing to all men NOW. Paul went to ALL PEOPLE because Israel had fallen (so he went also to them) and the only way ANYONE can be saved in this dispensation is according to the gospel message given to Paul...the gospel of the grace of God. There is NO national distinction in this dispensation. That is an apparent difference that everyone should readily see. In time past Israel was the channel of blessing. Salvation was of the jew. In ages to come salvation will be of the jew...people will grab unto the coat tail of the jew because he knows the way to God...BUT NOW in the dispensation of the gospel of the grace of God...ALL people can be saved not because of the RISE of Israel (which is according to prophecy) but because of the FALL of Israel (according to MYSTERY).

God is the God of all grace, love, mercy... BUT NOW He is shedding forth his grace abundantly, not imputing anyone's trespasses to them having mercy upon all who will believe the good news of the gospel of the grace of God. He is longsuffering ...
1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

 

[RGL1]

Yes, shame on you for giving Darby and Scofield credit for God's doings.

Paul states in 1Cor.9:17 "...a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me." This looks like Paul was given a different dispensational gospel then what was previously preach. Also, one can find numerous dispensations in the Bible

The seperation in our modern Bibles between the Old and New Testament are derived by man NOT God. In fact, I view the four Gospels as a continuation of the "so called" Old Testament.

Since the fall of Adam, God has always been graceous in that He has always provided a means in which fallen man could be saved/justified. The doctrine of grace that Paul preached was kept secret since the world began.

The "age to come" is the earthly kingdom that Jesus will establish at His second coming.

Sorry my mistake. Let me clarify Old Covenant - New Covenant. Many use the terms interchangably.
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Jesus states in Lu 22:20 "[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Pauls states in 1Co 11:25 "[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Paul states in 2Co 3:6 "[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Heb 8:13 - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.[/FONT]

The message is consistant.

"Also, one can find numerous dispensations in the Bible"

You can find almost anything in the bible if you look hard enough.

"Paul states in 1Cor.9:17 '...a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.' "
Notice "the" gospel not "a" gospel as in one of many.

"The doctrine of grace that Paul preached was kept secret since the world began."

Paul points out in the early chapters of Romans to look at Abraham, OT, grace was not a secret.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Paul states in Ga 3:8[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]"The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU."[/FONT]

 

[eph3Nine]

God is a God of grace.

There has always been grace in dispensations but NOW we have the dispensation of the grace of God.... grace abundantly poured out...that was not always the case and we can readily see that from scripture.

Do we see God dealing out his wrath now? Israel would rebel and they would be judged. Sin in the camp of Israel was judged immediately. It was not grace shed abundantly as we have now.


In every one of Paul's epistles it opens with 'grace and peace'. Check it out. That is not just a nice greeting, a friendly way of starting a letter..but rather a declaration of what God is doing ....declaring grace and peace.

Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

In the dispensation of the grace of God we see that GRACE REIGNS.

Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

2 Corinthians 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Paul as the apostle to the gentiles has more to say about grace than any other BIble writer.

Please check it out and see how he speaks of this grace appearing to all men NOW.

Paul went to ALL PEOPLE because Israel had fallen (so he went also to them) and the only way ANYONE can be saved in this dispensation is according to the gospel message given to Paul...the gospel of the grace of God.

There is NO national distinction in this dispensation. That is an apparent difference that everyone should readily see. In time past Israel was the channel of blessing. Salvation was of the jew. In ages to come salvation will be of the jew...people will grab unto the coat tail of the jew because he knows the way to God...BUT NOW in the dispensation of the gospel of the grace of God...ALL people can be saved not because of the RISE of Israel (which is according to prophecy) but because of the FALL of Israel (according to MYSTERY).

God is the God of all grace, love, mercy... BUT NOW He is shedding forth his grace abundantly, not imputing anyone's trespasses to them having mercy upon all who will believe the good news of the gospel of the grace of God. He is longsuffering ...

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first (paul speaking here) Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

This is so crystal clear...and so edifying to them that BELIEVE>

 

[eph3Nine]

Yes, shame on you for giving Darby and Scofield credit for God's doings.

Paul states in 1Cor.9:17 "...a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me." This looks like Paul was given a different dispensational gospel then what was previously preach. Also, one can find numerous dispensations in the Bible

The seperation in our modern Bibles between the Old and New Testament are derived by man NOT God. In fact, I view the four Gospels as a continuation of the "so called" Old Testament.

Since the fall of Adam, God has always been graceous in that He has always provided a means in which fallen man could be saved/justified. The doctrine of grace that Paul preached was kept secret since the world began.

The "age to come" is the earthly kingdom that Jesus will establish at His second coming.

Amen Dispy....good post fella!

 

[RGL1]

Amen Dispy....good post fella!

The seperation in our modern Bibles between the Old and New Testament are derived by man NOT God.

I think God made the division.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Jesus states in Lu 22:20 "[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Pauls states in 1Co 11:25 "[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Paul states in 2Co 3:6 "[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Heb 8:13 - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (i.e. sacrificial system)[/FONT]

 

[RGL1]

.

 

[RGL1]

eph3nine


"God is a God of grace.

There has always been grace in dispensations but NOW we have the dispensation of the grace of God.... grace abundantly poured out...that was not always the case and we can readily see that from scripture.

Do we see God dealing out his wrath now? Israel would rebel and they would be judged. Sin in the camp of Israel was judged immediately. It was not grace shed abundantly as we have now.


In every one of Paul's epistles it opens with 'grace and peace'. Check it out. That is not just a nice greeting, a friendly way of starting a letter..but rather a declaration of what God is doing ....declaring grace and peace.

Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

In the dispensation of the grace of God we see that GRACE REIGNS.

Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

2 Corinthians 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Paul as the apostle to the gentiles has more to say about grace than any other BIble writer.

Please check it out and see how he speaks of this grace appearing to all men NOW.

Paul went to ALL PEOPLE because Israel had fallen (so he went also to them) and the only way ANYONE can be saved in this dispensation is according to the gospel message given to Paul...the gospel of the grace of God.

There is NO national distinction in this dispensation. That is an apparent difference that everyone should readily see. In time past Israel was the channel of blessing. Salvation was of the jew. In ages to come salvation will be of the jew...people will grab unto the coat tail of the jew because he knows the way to God...BUT NOW in the dispensation of the gospel of the grace of God...ALL people can be saved not because of the RISE of Israel (which is according to prophecy) but because of the FALL of Israel (according to MYSTERY).

God is the God of all grace, love, mercy... BUT NOW He is shedding forth his grace abundantly, not imputing anyone's trespasses to them having mercy upon all who will believe the good news of the gospel of the grace of God. He is longsuffering ...

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first (paul speaking here) Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting."


RGL1
Let's not forget.....

CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT. Leave the verse in it's context and look for the point of the passage.

 

[Kimberlyann]

Jesus "fulfilled the law" not by adding a few spiritual twists to it, but by keeping a MUCH HIGHER SPIRITUAL LAW that actually contradicted much of the letter of Moses’ Law.

One doesn’t need a physical law of the letter chiseled in stone, to "keep the sabbath" when he has entered into "God’s SPIRITUAL REST" in his heart.
One doesn’t need a physical law of the letter to "swear by His name" when in his heart his desire is to "swear NOT at all."
One doesn’t need a physical law chiseled in stone telling him "thou shalt not commit adultery" when in his heart he no longer "even looks on a woman to lust after her."
One doesn’t need a physical law telling him to "HATE his enemies" when now in his very heart, he "LOVES his enemies." LOVE is lot different than just putting a spiritual twist on HATE. Not swearing at all is more than putting a spiritual twist on the commandment TO SWEAR.

​

 

[Kimberlyann]

Eph said,

Do we see God dealing out his wrath now? Israel would rebel and they would be judged. Sin in the camp of Israel was judged immediately. It was not grace shed abundantly as we have now.

Wrath is not the same thing as Judgement. Judgement is for correcting and setting right.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Isaiah 26 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]The King James Version [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Peter 4 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Corinthians 11 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]
[/FONT]Hebrews 12:4-17 4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye *******s, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. 12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; 13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed. 14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: 15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; 16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. 17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

 

[heymikey80]

1 Corinthians 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

A dispensation of the gospel was committed to Paul.

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

The dispensation of the grace of God was given to Paul to give to 'us-ward'.

Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
Colossians 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

The dispensation of God was given to Paul to fulfill the word of God...even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and generations BUT NOW is made manifest to his saints.
Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

There has always been grace in each dispensation, God has always shown mercy and grace BUT NOW He is declaring grace and peace...in the dispensation of the grace of God. (eph. 3:2)

No one's denying dispensations (of some sort) exist, even as covenants (of some sort) must also exist in Scripture.

The question isn't whether Paul had a dispensation of grace, but whether Paul organized his entire theology assuming God gives different rules to specific people at specific times -- again, not dispensations, but Dispensationalism. They are indeed quite different. Even the Westminster Confession -- no dispensationalist tract, there -- acknowledges "various dispensations" (WCF Ch. 7, sec 6).

 

[eph3Nine]

As one that considers himself as a non-denominational dispensationalist, and I do believe that I speak for the majority of those like minded believers, I would say that we be believe every word of God from Genesis 1:1 through Revelation 22:21. However, I do not follow the vast majority the OT Civil, Moral and Ceremonial Laws. For those that do likewise, then become dispensationalist also wheter they like to consider themselves dispensationals or not. Also, we study the Bible in the context in which it was written, paying much attention as to when, to whom, and what was required of those to whom it was written to at that time in human history.

When one speaks of "split up groups," I think of major protestant denominationalism. They take the doctrine (gospel) of of Law and mix it with the doctrine (gospel) of grace. That is what I call "a scrambled egg doctrine." Each denomination has a little different receipe as how to mix it, and then serve their followers an "omlet" to their liking. It is the denominationalist that split themselves up into many different groups. Go to your yellow pages in your phone book and just count how many denominations you find.

Those that make outrages accusations about other, should take a look in a mirror once in a while.

Yes, I wiil admit that all dispensationalists agree with every point of doctrine.

Dispensationalism is not a relatively new theology. It is neither a denomination or specific doctrine. It is primarily a manner in how one study the Scriptures. Not all persons study the Bible in the same manner, therefore one will find many different points of view.

Paul himself was a dispensaationalist. He speaks of three different dispensations in Ephesians 2 alone. In verses 11-12 he speaks of TIMES PAST. How things were when when there was a "middle wall of partition" between the Jew and Gentile.

In verse 13 he speaks of BUT NOW. as to how that wall has been broken down throug the blood of Christ. It didn't used to be that way.

In verse 7, he speaks of AGES TO COME, how God will bring His purposes to fruition.

Please don't give Darby or Scofield credit for what God instituted. Then you did it in a discrediting way. Shame on you.

Great stuff, Dispy....God IS a dispensationalist and He hasnt stopped short of His last revelation to mankind.

 

[LamorakDesGalis]

Ive read through a bunch of the threads in this forum,a nd dont reall get the major gist of what dispensationalists believe. Is it possible to get a dumbed down quick lesson?

It sure sounds like a FAQ is needed...which I'll get to work on.

All dispensationalists hold to a distinction between Israel and the church. What distinguishes dispensational beliefs from non-dispensationalist beliefs is that dispensationalists hold more closely to a higher priority of progressive revelation.

Dispensationalism can be subdivided into 4 basic views. Mainstream dispensationalists form the vast majority, and are either progressive dispensationalists or traditional dispensationalists. All of these mainstream dispensationalists hold that the church began in Acts 2, and consists of all believing Jews and believing Gentiles in this present age.

The other two views are minority views. Together they are commonly referred to as Hyperdispensationalism or Ultradispensationalism. The Mid-Acts dispensationalism, also called Pauline dispensationalism, holds that the church began somewhere between Acts 9-13. They make sharp distinctions between believers who came before Acts 9-13 and those who came after. A few of those who hold to this minority view currently generate most of the threads in this forum. The other even rarer view is Acts 28 dispensationalism. They hold that the church began after Acts 28, and like the Mid-Acts position, make sharp distinctions between believers before and after.


Lamorak Des Galis

 

[heymikey80]

(Of course, New Covenant theology also holds to a distinction between Israel and the Church.)