I don't care if you think abortion is wrong.

[Romanseight2005]

Cars are not designed to be in collisions, they are designed to transport people from one place to another. Sex is designed to create a baby, in the sanctity of marriage. People have reduced it to a past time, and want to throw away what comes of it.

Exactly! Cars were designed for a specific purpose, which was not to collide with others. Sex was designed for oneness in which the fruit of that oneness is a child. A more accurate comparison would be to plant a seed, but then tear off some of the limbs so they couldn't bear fruit.

 

[flicka]

Sex is designed to create a baby, in the sanctity of marriage.

Never, in the history of the world, has that been a universal belief or practice. Mostly it's a fringe belief.

 

[Electric Skeptic]

Cars are not designed to be in collisions, they are designed to transport people from one place to another.

Which is completely irrelevant.

Sex is designed to create a baby, in the sanctity of marriage.

In your opinion, which is not supportable by anything but religious belief.

People have reduced it to a past time, and want to throw away what comes of it.

It was always a pastime, and it needs no reduction to be one. For the vast majority of us, of course, it is vastly more than just a pastime. And yes, in some circumstances disposing of the unwanted accidental consequences of it is the best course.

Biologically, the baby is dependent on its mother for everything until she is old enough to fend for herself. If you want to deny that she is alive, that is legally your prerogative, but it doesn't change the truth.

I have nowhere denied that she is alive. I have stated, correctly, that a fetus is biologically a parasite. You can draw whatever conclusions from that you like - I drew none.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Hogwash!

Modern medical science confirms that life begins at conception.

Women who believe they have a right to kill their babies are the ones making emotional judgements, and very unsound ones at that.

No one questions that life begins at conception.

But when does that life qualify as being a person?

 

[WatersMoon110]

Sex is designed to create a baby, in the sanctity of marriage. People have reduced it to a past time, and want to throw away what comes of it.

Then why is it possible for unmarried couples to get pregnant?

Also, why don't female humans go into heat, like cats? Why do we have sex when there is no chance of getting pregnant? If sex was only "designed" for procreation, why doesn't it result in new life every time we have it? Either you are wrong, or God made a mistake (wonder which?).

 

[levi501]

Your advice seriously is a danger to womens and childrens lives. Not to mention the great risk of eternal damnation should a women die during an abortion(die in mortal sin)..An unborn baby is a human WITH potential. Not vice versa..It really scares me knowing people like you work in social work and how many children have died because of your advice to women who have wanted help..I really suggest you ponder the lives that may have died and the people that they could have become..If you really wanna do good for humanity, I think you should resign your job as a social worker in order to keep children in a safer enviornment..

lol, were you frothing at the mouth when you typed this?
btw, I believe pregnancy is more detrimental to a woman's body than abortion.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Thats the biggest load I have ever read.

Prove it.

 

[Texas Lynn]

I believe pregnancy is more detrimental to a woman's body than abortion.

So does every ethical medical professional.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Cars are not designed to be in collisions, they are designed to transport people from one place to another. Sex is designed to create a baby, in the sanctity of marriage. People have reduced it to a past time...

Perhaps the greatest advance of the 20th Century CE was the change form sex being inexorably linked to pregnancy to the complete separation of the two. Sex as an expression of love between individuals is emminently superior to sex for reproduction.

 

[WatersMoon110]

Sex as an expression of love [L] between individuals is eminently superior to sex for reproduction [R].

What about sex done for both reasons (not that I have that kind - we're too young for "teh babies")? Would that be L+R or L-R for enjoyment? *wink*

 

[Lisa0315]

The reality is that there are contraception methods which last five years now.

The reality is that people still get pregnant regardless of birth control.

The reality is that some people do carelessly get abortions, but most have abortions as a desperate measure.

So, the ONLY solution is that BOTH sides work together to offer alternatives to abortion.

Pro Choicers need to stop pretending that a legal definition of life will alleviate the guilt of ending your child's life regardless of how desperate the situation. They need to give all the facts so that the women can make informed choices.

Pro Lifers need to do more than shout down how sinful and wrong it is, and start coming up with some concrete ways to help these women. That means digging into your pockets. If we have tens of millions of babies aborted every year, then, we need to be prepared to financially support these women, or we need to be prepared to adopt these children ourselves.

Very easy to talk about how bad abortion is. Quite another to take on someone else's responsibilty rather than allow the child to die.

Lisa

 

[suzybeezy]

Here's some good new for pro-lifers:
http://www.guttmacher.org/media/nr/2007/10/11/index.html

ABORTION DECLINES WORLDWIDE,
FALLS MOST WHERE ABORTION IS BROADLY LEGAL


The number of induced abortions worldwide declined from nearly 46 million to under 42 million between 1995 and 2003. Abortion rates fell most significantly in Eastern Europe, a trend that corresponds with substantially increased contraceptive use in the region, according to “Induced Abortion: Rates and Trends Worldwide,” a new report by the Guttmacher Institute and the World Health Organization (WHO) published in the 13 October 2007 issue of The Lancet.

click link above to read the entire article

Second, abortion is among the safest of all medical procedures.

from the same study linked above:

"Nearly half of all induced abortions are unsafe, putting the lives and health of women at major risk. Each year, about 70,000 women die due to unsafe abortion and an additional five million suffer permanent or temporary disability," notes Dr. Paul F.A. Van Look, director of WHO’s Department of Reproductive Health and Research.

 

[KarateCowboy]

Perhaps the greatest advance of the 20th Century CE(sic) was the change form sex being inexorably linked to pregnancy to the complete separation of the two. Sex as an expression of love between individuals is emminently superior to sex for reproduction.

yeah.

Forget antibiotics.
Forget the light bulb.
Forget landing on the moon.
Forget the internet
Forget the CPU
Forget the television.
Forget brain surgery.

Free sex. That's what it's all about.

 

[WatersMoon110]

The reality is that there are contraception methods which last five years now.

The reality is that people still get pregnant regardless of birth control.

The reality is that some people do carelessly get abortions, but most have abortions as a desperate measure.

Very good points! Though they aren't sure if the implant puts women at higher risk for cancer or other dangers, so I wouldn't really suggest that everyone get on it, yet. They just found out that the Depo shot can be dangerous, especially when used over two years.

So, the ONLY solution is that BOTH sides work together to offer alternatives to abortion.

Yes!

Pro Choicers need to stop pretending that a legal definition of life will alleviate the guilt of ending your child's life regardless of how desperate the situation. They need to give all the facts so that the women can make informed choices.

I don't think that all Pro-Choicers act those ways. And I think that many (though not all) Pro-Choice organizations do give out all of the accurate information, and leave the choice up to the pregnant woman.

Pro Lifers need to do more than shout down how sinful and wrong it is, and start coming up with some concrete ways to help these women. That means digging into your pockets. If we have tens of millions of babies aborted every year, then, we need to be prepared to financially support these women, or we need to be prepared to adopt these children ourselves.

Very easy to talk about how bad abortion is. Quite another to take on someone else's responsibilty rather than allow the child to die.

I think rather than just encouraging women to choose to raise children or give them up for adoption, isn't enough. The best way to bring the abortion rate down is better sex education. There are already far too many children looking for good homes, what we need is to get the unintentional birth rate down significantly! Less unintentional pregnant couples = less abortions.

 

[suzybeezy]

Pro Lifers need to do more than shout down how sinful and wrong it is, and start coming up with some concrete ways to help these women. That means digging into your pockets. If we have tens of millions of babies aborted every year, then, we need to be prepared to financially support these women, or we need to be prepared to adopt these children ourselves.

Very easy to talk about how bad abortion is. Quite another to take on someone else's responsibilty rather than allow the child to die.

Lisa

I knew a girl when I was about in my twenties (so was she) who was pregnant and informed me she was going to have an abortion. I begged her to have the baby and assured her I would raise it. Her biggest concern was how a pregnancy would alter her body (aka stretch marks), so she ended up terminating. I would have stepped up to take on the responsibility rather than let that child die. I knew another girl who informed me she had 3 abortions. When I ask why she didn't just go on birth control, she said that an abortion was just as easy. (where's that pounds head on desk smilie) ugh!

I've put my money where my mouth is so to speak by adopting on two different occasions. I'm sure I'm not alone. Although the adoption rate is low in the US.

http://allmenarecreatedequal.blogspot.com/2007/11/adoption-vs-abortion-myth.html

Meanwhile, we know that very few women actually place their infants for adoption. In the United States, fewer than 14,000 newborns were voluntarily relinquished in 2003 (the latest year for which an estimate is available), according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. That proportion -- just under 1% of all the children born to never-married women -- has remained constant for almost two decades.

 

[Westvleteren]

suzybeezy, the article is not saying that all abortions are by definition unsafe. It's saying that there are unsafe abortions performed -- mostly where safe, legal abortion is not available. (These are otherwise known as "backstreet" abortions, performed in someone's home and rarely by a medical professional.) Where legal abortion is widely available, the number of abortions performed that are unsafe is much smaller.

Here's the full quote:

The study also found that an estimated 20 million unsafe abortions occurred in 2003, 97% of these in developing regions. The prevalence of unsafe abortion remains high, with up to 39 unsafe abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44 in Eastern Africa and 33 per 1,000 in South America. By contrast, developed regions, where almost all countries allow abortions with few restrictions, had an average unsafe abortion rate of two per 1,000. The consequences of unsafe abortion—death, serious injury, infertility and increased health care cost are largely borne by poor women. The report concludes that reducing the incidence of unsafe abortion would result in an immediate and substantial reduction of maternal mortality and improve maternal health.

So they're talking about reducing "unsafe" abortion, not abortion in general.

Here's the thing -- there will always be women, driven by fear or desperation, who will seek an abortion whether it's legal or not. Keeping it legal means she can go to a doctor and have a safe abortion that will end the pregnancy but keep her healthy for future reproduction. Making it illegal means she goes to her aunt's neighbor who does it with a homebrewed poison and clothes hanger, increasing the likelihood she will die or be permanently maimed.

 

[Westvleteren]

yeah.

Forget antibiotics.
Forget the light bulb.
Forget landing on the moon.
Forget the internet
Forget the CPU
Forget the television.
Forget brain surgery.

Free sex. That's what it's all about.

Actually, it is pretty darn important to our society. Women have been able to leave the home, get advanced educations and go to work, contributing to the economy and to the advancement of the professions in general. (What woman would have gone through law school or medical school knowing that the day she became sexually active her career was on borrowed time?)

Not to mention that women have been able to demand to be treated as citizens equal to men now that they have some control over their reproductive lives and their value to society is no longer measured by how great a percentage of their adult life they can be barefoot and pregnant.

(And some people find that so threatening...)

 

[WatersMoon110]

I knew a girl when I was about in my twenties (so was she) who was pregnant and informed me she was going to have an abortion. I begged her to have the baby and assured her I would raise it. Her biggest concern was how a pregnancy would alter her body (aka stretch marks), so she ended up terminating. I would have stepped up to take on the responsibility rather than let that child die. I knew another girl who informed me she had 3 abortions. When I ask why she didn't just go on birth control, she said that an abortion was just as easy. (where's that pounds head on desk smilie) ugh!

As far as personal experience goes, I know three people who have talked to me about their abortions. The first had to get one because pregnancy hormones give her brain tumors, and was advised by her medical professional to get an abortion to prevent her tumor from regrowing (and then got sterilized after). The second got unintentionally pregnant in high school, and made a very difficult choice, with her boyfriend and mother, to continue school and get an abortion (after a week off) and stated that she didn't regret her abortion, but wishes that the condom hadn't broken and she hadn't gotten pregnant. The third got pregnant in college, from date-rape, and could not deal with continuing the pregnancy, so got an abortion.

I was given an abortion against my will in a dangerous way by my abusive ex-step-father. While I regret the abuse, and regret the method, I know that at 15 there is no way I could have raised a child - and going through with the pregnancy would probably have been just as traumatic as the experience I went though.

Everyone is different, and everyone has different reasons for abortion (and all other decisions, of course). I don't think that you knowing a few irresponsible people means that all people who have gotten abortions are irresponsible (nor do the responsible people who I know who have aborted make all people getting abortions responsible).

 

[Romanseight2005]

Just because there are birth control methods out there, doesn't ever give us the excuse to have sex without the full realization that a baby could come from this. A baby is the fruit of that expression of love that you are talking about. We may not want a baby and still want sex, but the reality is that a baby is the fruit of sex. Sometimes the birthcontrol may work, or sometimes the egg might not get fertilized, but still baby is fruit. The very fact that people still get pregnant even though they use birthcontrol is actually proof that just because people have decided that sex doesn't need to be about babies, it still is and always will be the fruit of that union, so separating those two is just believing a lie. I do agree that sex is about love, and sex can be just as wonderful even if a baby doesn't come from it. We should always be ready for a baby to come from it though because that is the natural fruit of that union. So, yes it is irresponsible to have sex without the full expectation that pregnancy may come. If you are not ready for the responsibilities that come with parenthood, don't have sex. That is one very logical reason to be married to the person you are having sex with. Now in the case of rape, that is a different scenario because the girl did not choose to have sex in that case, but in every other case it is irresponsible.

 

[flicka]

Abortions are not easy. Anyone who says that is stupid. And unfortunately you can't legislate the stupid out of people. I wish.