I don't believe in evolution... (2)

[Charlie V]

It is possible to be a Christian, to be a theist in general, and to believe that Evolution provides a more-than-satisfactory account of biodiversity. There is nothing essentially 'Atheistic' about Evolution.

I'm going to take your statement and raise it a notch, Art.

The majority of Christians in this day and age, and indeed, the majority of theists in general, accept evolution. Even the Catholic Pope has embraced evolution. Vast numbers of protestants have embraced evolution. The number of Christians that reject evolution is dwindling.

I, personally, prefer to focus on what the two... I'll use another word this time... paradigms... have in common. The brotherhood of man. That we are all in this world together, all related by blood and by DNA, and the moral implications that that holds for us.

But really, most Christians do accept evolution.

Charlie

 

[walkingxshadow]

darwin himself never tried to refute the bible or christianity. he got disenchanted with organized church because of their closed minded ideals. and while its all well and good to say that most of the educated world accepts christianity and evolution as compatable. its a completely different thing to actually express your beliefs to a church group and see the looks of horror cross the faces. i live in the bible belt and my beliefs are seen as heretical.

 

[Zongerfield]

Charlie
Zongerfield was probably really good at dodge ball in school. He will dodge questions or quote something else. Listed below are the latest questions that he has dodged.

Why do you seem so adamant about pronouncing cuts to the poor, elderly, and sick but say nothing about corporate welfare and the rich being more of a Good Samaritan?

The rich create jobs and investment opportunities for the masses. Without their resources, ingenuity, and hard work, we'd be living in a godless European like sinkhole that's got a 60% income tax and whose biggest contributions to humanity is some obscure opera singer and a new flavor of spiced meat.

If this is the reality you want to live in, move to Europe. This is the greatest country on God's green earth because it is the most dynamic, economically, spiritually, politically. We set the trends, we make the money, we are the best country in the world. This is because of the rich, not in spite of them.

Why are you so bold about your interpretation of the constitution and politics but you do not mention what Christ’s teachings are about the poor, sick, the hungry, etc?

I've already addressed this. Giving to the poor, sick, hungry and elderly is something we do because it's of our own volition. God wants us to take care of those individuals. And we do via charities, special events (like the special Olympics), food drives, etc. When we start drafting public policy that mandates funds for the poor, sick, and hungry, we take money out of the pockets of the people who grow the economy and make the workforce larger and stronger. By raising taxes on the producers they have less funds to invest into the economy and less money to donate to charity.

If one wants to increase charitable donations for the poor, weak, and sick, the key is to lower taxes not raise them. I'll keep saying it, you don't weaken a healthy man to heal a sick man.

 

[SonOfTheWest]

Sorry.

I meant, "two prevailing schools of thought."

I didn't mean "theory" in its scientific definition.

I was going for "nice" and I was going for "unity over division" with that post. I wasn't going for perfection in word choice, which is often the most difficult thing.

Charlie

No harm no foul. Sort of a pet peeve of mine I guess.

 

[Skavau]

The rich create jobs and investment opportunities for the masses. Without their resources, ingenuity, and hard work, we'd be living in a godless European like sinkhole that's got a 60% income tax and whose biggest contributions to humanity is some obscure opera singer and a new flavor of spiced meat.

You don't know anything about Europe, do you?

 

[TerranceL]

You don't know anything about Europe, do you?

I saw it on tv once.

Didn't they just have a wedding?

 

[Nathan Poe]

You don't know anything about Europe, do you?

And probably isn't the least bit interested in learning anything about it.

But that's okay, Zongerfield -- nobody blames you; it's not your fault you're this way.

 

[Zongerfield]

And probably isn't the least bit interested in learning anything about it.

But that's okay, Zongerfield -- nobody blames you; it's not your fault you're this way.

Yeah, I know about Europe. Aside from Germany, they're going bankrupt because of their socialistic policies.

We're also going bankrupt, but we can print money and we have a military large enough to back our dollar. We cut entitlement programs, and rid ourselves of our socialistic policies and we'll be fine.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

If this is the reality you want to live in, move to Europe. This is the greatest country on God's green earth because it is the most dynamic, economically, spiritually, politically. We set the trends, we make the money, we are the best country in the world. This is because of the rich, not in spite of them.

So much humility, Zongerfield.

I've already addressed this. Giving to the poor, sick, hungry and elderly is something we do because it's of our own volition. God wants us to take care of those individuals. And we do via charities, special events (like the special Olympics), food drives, etc. When we start drafting public policy that mandates funds for the poor, sick, and hungry, we take money out of the pockets of the people who grow the economy and make the workforce larger and stronger. By raising taxes on the producers they have less funds to invest into the economy and less money to donate to charity.

And yet investment into the economy still continues and people still donate to charities. How do you figure that?

If one wants to increase charitable donations for the poor, weak, and sick, the key is to lower taxes not raise them. I'll keep saying it, you don't weaken a healthy man to heal a sick man.

How is that going to increase charitable donations? Are people suddenly going to feel more charitable with their disposable income or are they going to do with it what they normally do?

 

[Skavau]

Yeah, I know about Europe. Aside from Germany, they're going bankrupt because of their socialistic policies.

We're also going bankrupt, but we can print money and we have a military large enough to back our dollar. We cut entitlement programs, and rid ourselves of our socialistic policies and we'll be fine.

Best Nations In The World

The Best Countries:
#1 Sweden
#2 Denmark
#3 Netherlands
#4 Finland
#5 Germany
#6 UK
#7 Canada
#8 Switzerland
#9 Norway
#10 Belgium

 

[sdmsanjose]

Originally Posted by sdmsanjose
Charlie
Zongerfield was probably really good at dodge ball in school. He will dodge questions or quote something else. Listed below are the latest questions that he has dodged.

sdm question to Zongerfield
Why do you seem so adamant about pronouncing cuts to the poor, elderly, and sick but say nothing about corporate welfare and the rich being more of a Good Samaritan?

Zongerfield reply
The rich create jobs and investment opportunities for the masses. Without their resources, ingenuity, and hard work, we'd be living in a godless European like sinkhole that's got a 60% income tax and whose biggest contributions to humanity is some obscure opera singer and a new flavor of spiced meat.

If this is the reality you want to live in, move to Europe. This is the greatest country on God's green earth because it is the most dynamic, economically, spiritually, politically. We set the trends, we make the money, we are the best country in theworld. This is because of the rich, not in spite of them.

Zongerfield, You endorse that your government give some of your tax dollars to corporate welfare because you believe in the political trickle down theory that jobs will be created and investment opportunities will materialize.

Your position above is NOT endorsed by the biblical scriptures.



You DO NOT endorse that your government gives some of your tax money to the sick (Medicare) the hungry (food stamps).
The biblical scriptures contridict you position above on the sick and hungry. The giving to the sick and hungry are specifically taught by Christ in Matthew 25 and Luke 10.

As I have said before, you put your political ideology above the scriptures that you profess to preach.

 

[sdmsanjose]

Originally Posted by Zongerfield http://www.christianforums.com/t7548635-63/#post57401974
Yeah, I know about Europe. Aside from Germany, they're going bankrupt because of their socialistic policies.

We're also going bankrupt, but we can print money and we have a military large enough to back our dollar. We cut entitlement programs, and rid ourselves of our socialistic policies and we'll be fine.


Below list Posted by SKAVAU

Best Nations In The World

The Best Countries:
#1 Sweden
#2 Denmark
#3 Netherlands
#4 Finland
#5 Germany
#6 UK
#7 Canada
#8 Switzerland
#9 Norway
#10 Belgium

Quote by Zongerfield
The rich create jobs and investment opportunities for the masses. Without their resources, ingenuity, and hard work, we'd be living in a godless European like sinkhole that's got a 60% income tax and whose biggest contributions to humanity is some obscure opera singer and a new flavor of spiced meat.



If this is the reality you want to live in, move to Europe. This is the greatest country on God's green earth because it is the most dynamic, economically, spiritually, politically. We set the trends, we make the money, we are the best country in the world. This is because of the rich, not in spite of them.

Zongerfield, you seem to have your mind made up on a lot of things without considering the facts.

 

[Zongerfield]

Zongerfield, You endorse that your government give some of your tax dollars to corporate welfare because you believe in the political trickle down theory that jobs will be created and investment opportunities will materialize.

Your position above is NOT endorsed by the biblical scriptures.

Really? Where in scripture does it say that a society should have a system of government that mandates entitlement programs?

You DO NOT endorse that your government gives some of your tax money to the sick (Medicare) the hungry (food stamps).
The biblical scriptures contridict you position above on the sick and hungry. The giving to the sick and hungry are specifically taught by Christ in Matthew 25 and Luke 10.

As I have said before, you put your political ideology above the scriptures that you profess to preach.

IMO, the government shouldn't tell people how to spend their hard earned money. As a Christian though, it is our duty to follow the teachings of Jesus, which I do. However, our government is not a Christian church. It's wrong for them to take our money for things that were not originally Constitutionally mandated.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Isn't it somewhat ironic that Zongerfield seems to have absorbed Ayn Rand's way of thinking and rhethoric with his mother's milk?

 

[Zongerfield]

The Best Countries:
#1 Sweden
#2 Denmark
#3 Netherlands
#4 Finland
#5 Germany
#6 UK
#7 Canada
#8 Switzerland
#9 Norway
#10 Belgium


This is completely laughable. Take the top 3. What have they contributed to humanity in the past 50 years? As far as technology, as far as the arts and sciences, economics, etc.

Now compare those with the United States...

Actually forget that. Ask yourself this one question, if you could be a citizen of any country, which would you choose?

 

[Assyrian]

Yeah, I know about Europe. Aside from Germany, they're going bankrupt because of their socialistic policies.

That's funny, I thought it was because of greedy American investment bankers and the subprime mortgage collapse.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

This is completely laughable. Take the top 3. What have they contributed to humanity in the past 50 years? As far as technology, as far as the arts and sciences, economics, etc.

You should ask yourself that question. It appears that your perception of the world is rather lopsided.

Actually forget that. Ask yourself this one question, if you could be a citizen of any country, which would you choose?

Norway, probably. I used to like the Netherlands, Sweden, and Finnland as well, but since they've both elected right-wing populists into their parliaments, I'm not so sure that thing will be looking up for them much longer.

Now, the United States certainly aren't on the last place of my "countries to live in"-list (pretty much all of Africa, South America, and Asia would occupy those), but as far as Western nations with a high living standard are concerned, the USA are pretty much at the bottom.

 

[TheReasoner]

The Best Countries:
#1 Sweden
#2 Denmark
#3 Netherlands
#4 Finland
#5 Germany
#6 UK
#7 Canada
#8 Switzerland
#9 Norway
#10 Belgium

This is completely laughable. Take the top 3. What have they contributed to humanity in the past 50 years? As far as technology, as far as the arts and sciences, economics, etc.

Now compare those with the United States...

Okay.

Patents granted per capita:
# 7 Sweden
# 17 Netherlands
# 18 Denmark
# 40 United States

Financial reserves
# 3 Netherlands:
# 4 Sweden:
# 171 Denmark:
# 173 United States

Foreign aid:

The first number is official donations per capita, the second is private donations.
Australia 14¢ 3¢
Austria 18 2
Belgium 28 2
Canada 17 2
Denmark 64 1
Finland 24 1
France 25 1
Greece 7 0.1
Germany 18 3
Ireland 28 6
Italy 11 0.2
Japan 20¢ 0.4¢
Netherlands 57 4
New Zealand 8 1
Norway 102 24
Portugal 9 0.1
Spain 11 1
Sweden 61 1
Switzerland 35 7
United Kingdom 23 2
United States 13 5


What about ART?
Let's look at films:
Top 3:
# 1 Iceland
# 2 Hong Kong
# 3 Switzerland

# 5 Denmark
# 6 Sweden
# 20 USA
# 27 Netherlands:

As for books, pop over to nationmaster and have a look. The data shown isn't very favorable for the US when you take population into account Z.

The stats above are largely from nationmaster.com, globalissues is where I got the graph and the table of numbers which follows is less recent (2002) and it's from http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0930884.html

Actually forget that. Ask yourself this one question, if you could be a citizen of any country, which would you choose?

Not the US. Have you even checked that country's prognosis? Experts are giving it the thumbs down economically (your credit rating is suffering, and has been degraded) saying the only way for you to gain your feet agaiin is to retract Bush's tax cuts and indeed increase taxes further. Other experts - historical experts - point to history and say the US as a nation is going to fall within 9 years. These are not predictions from lightweighters either Zongerfield. So fifty years ago the US might be a good nation to be a citizen in. Ten, fifteen years from now... I doubt it will be anywhere nice to live.

 

[Charlie V]

The rich create jobs and investment opportunities for the masses. Without their resources, ingenuity, and hard work, we'd be living in a godless European like sinkhole that's got a 60% income tax and whose biggest contributions to humanity is some obscure opera singer and a new flavor of spiced meat.

Yes... creating jobs. Like the $35,000 a year job they created for my father, so he could create a product that would bring the parent company billions of dollars, to that they could lay him off and he could die in poverty.

The rich corporations don't care about creating jobs. They care about exploiting people.

They would still be sending children to work in coal mines, if they could, and it is only because of regulation that they can't. Regulations are necessary. More regulations are necessary.

Further, the rich corporations should have their incomes taxed according to how much they make... no sweetheart deals that allow a company that made billions of dollars in profit to pay no taxes while the company's employee who makes $50,000 pays nearly a third of what he makes.

The corporations are robbing us blind, and the rich at the top of it are taking the milk of our hard earned labor, and not living up to their responsibility to society.

Jesus had a few things to say about the rich in the Bible.

Charlie

 

[Charlie V]

How does a person starve to death when they are being given fish?

That's very simple. The conservatives come along and say, "No more fish for you! We are going to give all your fish to the rich corporations. And while we are at it, we're cutting your child's schools, we're not going to repair those bridges, and we're putting your nation in debt, so that the corporation making seventy billion dollars a year can pay zero taxes."

A conservative president named Bill Clinton slashed welfare dramatically. People are without fish or any other type of food, right now, in the United States of America.

(What's with all the focus on fish? Don't people need bread, cheese, milk, cereal? I think a diet with a variety in it is a good idea...)

Charlie