I don't believe in evolution... (2)

[Archaeopteryx]

Did God not order the Hebrews to kill ALL? Answer that question.

Are you Hebrew? Are you attacking Amalek? Or the Hittites and Amorites? Does that order apply to you? Think on context before you espouse nonsense.

So is what Clirus promotes all that different from what we've seen in scripture, and what we've done as a country in the past?

Well, yes there is an important difference. Because God gave the command to the ancient Israelites and directed them to act against Amorites and various other groups. He did not endorse, as a generic command, the notion that genocide is an appropriate course of action.

God ordered the killing of those who spurned him

Does that mean that you endorse the policies of Clirus when it comes to 'infidels'?

 

[HosannaHM]

Perhaps you ought to revise the above to read that you believe your interpretation of the Bible is inerrant.

When people think they are without error, Oppresion is the result.

 

[Nathan Poe]

When people think they are without error, Oppresion is the result.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire

 

[Zongerfield]

I need some time to pray on this. I never thought, in my wildest dreams, that I would be ridiculed so much coming to "Christian Forums." I didn't expect to agree with everyone on everything, but I at least thought that my Christian brethren would be more respectful and welcoming. I know respect is not given it's earned, but at the same time there is a certain level of decency people should be treated with, especially if you share a similar covenant with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

I will pray on this for a day or two, and then I will hopefully have a solution that we can all agree to as to how we may proceed, civilly and in good taste.

I came here to make friends, to express my love for our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, to discuss political matters that may be resolved by a keen understanding of scripture, to reflect on the glory of God's grace, to bear witness to truth and justice. Instead, I've actively participated in a discussion that involved name-calling, fear-mongering, blasphemy, hypocritical language, and ugliness to a depth and degree I didn't expect.

I believe we are all better than this. And I will pray that we will restore civility to this forum.

Bless you all. I forgive you, and I will pray for you.

 

[Skavau]

I need to know Zongerfeld though, I need you to tell me whether or not you agree with clirus that atheists should be forced, on threat of execution to adopt a Christian lifestyle.

Do you or do you not?

 

[HosannaHM]

I'm confused. Does anyone here feel like they have stepped out of line?

 

[Nathan Poe]

I need some time to pray on this. I never thought, in my wildest dreams, that I would be ridiculed so much coming to "Christian Forums."

You expected to be able to rebuke those whom you disagreed with, and not to expect the same in return because you carried a "Christian" moniker.

You expected wrong -- those who live by the rebuke shall perish by it.

I didn't expect to agree with everyone on everything, but I at least thought that my Christian brethren would be more respectful and welcoming.

You received all the respect you earned.

I know respect is not given it's earned, but at the same time there is a certain level of decency people should be treated with, especially if you share a similar covenant with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Nope -- there's absolutely no reason for one Christian to not consider another Christian to be (for example):

• A raving loon
• A sociopathic wacko
• A heretic
• A joke
• A bad example
• A poor witness
• More damaging to the faith than the most hardcore of atheists

Etc...

You've fallen into the trap of tribal thinking -- you think Christians wouldn't reject you so long as you considered yourself "one of them."

Sadly, this was not the case.

I will pray on this for a day or two, and then I will hopefully have a solution that we can all agree to as to how we may proceed, civilly and in good taste.

You might want to begin with an apology -- several apologies migh be in order.

I came here to make friends, to express my love for our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, to discuss political matters that may be resolved by a keen understanding of scripture, to reflect on the glory of God's grace, to bear witness to truth and justice.

Then how do you explain that very little of what you've discussed here has done this?

Allow me to refresh you memory: Does this look familiar?

I don't believe in evolution. There, I've confessed my sin.

I say this because in today's political arena, coming out or testifying against Darwinian evolution is seen as a sin of gargantuan proportions. The unbeliever (as it relates to evolution) is met with so much hate, vitriol, and condescension by the pro-evolution crowd that it's really hard to speak one's mind for fear of not only being publicly rebuked, but for fear of being completely ostracized by one's peers and political constituents.

For example, last night I was watching Real Time with Bill Maher, and he had two guests on that openly admitted they didn't believe in evolution, they didn't believe they came from monkeys, that they did in fact believe in God as the creative force behind their existence, and they were derided and laughed at and completely de-legitimized for their unbelief in evolution.

I find this appaling and sad, that our religious beliefs can be used to devalue our political stature in the eyes of the (liberal) public. In today't political arena, If I tell people I didn't evovle from a monkey, they're likely to see me as a credulous lout. I'm I wrong about this?

You came out swinging since the first post -- did you honestly not expect anyone to swing back?

Instead, I've actively participated in a discussion that involved name-calling, fear-mongering, blasphemy, hypocritical language, and ugliness to a depth and degree I didn't expect.

You were ptronizing and condescending to begin with (just looking at your first dozen posts or so) -- and it only got worse when you not only tried to defend the indefensible, you embraced it.

I believe we are all better than this. And I will pray that we will restore civility to this forum.

Start with the mirror, and work your way outward.

Bless you all. I forgive you, and I will pray for you.

Got a feeling my advice has fallen on deaf ears.

 

[Nathan Poe]

I need to know Zongerfeld though, I need you to tell me whether or not you agree with clirus that atheists should be forced, on threat of execution to adopt a Christian lifestyle.

Do you or do you not?

Before you answer that, have you once told clirus that you forgive her and will pray for her?

 

[tulc]

I need some time to pray on this. I never thought, in my wildest dreams, that I would be ridiculed so much coming to "Christian Forums." I didn't expect to agree with everyone on everything, but I at least thought that my Christian brethren would be more respectful and welcoming. I know respect is not given it's earned, but at the same time there is a certain level of decency people should be treated with, especially if you share a similar covenant with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

It probably would have helped if when people pointed out you were getting in the middle of something you really didn't understand if you would have backed up and took a look at who/what you were supporting.

I will pray on this for a day or two, and then I will hopefully have a solution that we can all agree to as to how we may proceed, civilly and in good taste.

still a little unclear on the whole "Trying not to come across as "THE VOICE OF THE ALMIGHTY!!" (tm) huh? Don't worry, it takes time.

I came here to make friends, to express my love for our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, to discuss political matters that may be resolved by a keen understanding of scripture, to reflect on the glory of God's grace, to bear witness to truth and justice. Instead, I've actively participated in a discussion that involved name-calling, fear-mongering, blasphemy, hypocritical language, and ugliness to a depth and degree I didn't expect.

Really? I thought this discussion was pretty mild compared to some threads we've had. I don't remember any thread closing for clean up, no mod hats all in all it seemed pretty nice.

I believe we are all better than this. And I will pray that we will restore civility to this forum.

See above.

Bless you all. I forgive you, and I will pray for you.

Thank you! We all can use more people praying for us!
tulc(hopes you let us know what happens)

 

[Snow Phoenix]

You're reading into things that are not there. When did I say, "Kill them all before they even have a chance to think about harming you"?

I said were they to do x,y,z... then a swift and decisive response involving extreme measures is permissible.



Who goes to hell, and who does not, is not really my concern. God will decide in the end.


Again, this is a horrible misreading of what I've very clearly stated. Genocidal measures are only permissible in exigent circumstances where our life, liberty, and country are on the line.



I have no enemies. Part of the reason why, is because I forgive people and pray for them.



This is a ridiculous comment.



Try reading the bible, instead of embarrassing yourself.

I'm curious why you are so concerned with this short, insignificant existence on this planet, if you believe you are for sure going to heaven after you die... If God is going to 'sort 'em out' when they die, why would you concern yourself with trying to do God's job? Can't he do it himself?

I forgive you and I will pray for you.

You really haven't listened to anything that anybody has said, have you.

 

[sdmsanjose]

Quote by Zongerfield
What else would you like to know?

sdmsanjose responds
Nothing from you Z as you have proven the below statements:

Zongerfield supports execution, without support from the bible, of a father that fails financially.
Zongerfield posts a quote from the Bible so as to look like he is helping others with wisdom
Zongerfield tries to convince people that he is applying Christian teachings that has the bible as his guide yet he has beliefs that are contrary to biblical teachings
Zongerfield lacks wisdom
Zongerfield has no influence, support, or respect from the posters on this forum.




Reply by Zongerfield
This is pure conjecture. And you know it.
Prejudice is what fools use for reason. -Voltaire

Let’s take each statement to see if they are pure conjecture from a fool

1 Zongerfield supports execution, without support from the bible, of a father that fails financially.


Quotes by Clirus
I believe the failure of a man to provide for his family should require execution of the man.

Enact Absolute Paternity legislation that would execute the father of a child that fails to make child care payments for an illegitimate child.

Zongerfield takes up for Clirus and will not stand against the statements above that are not supported by the bible





2 Zongerfield posts a quote from the Bible so as to look like he is helping others with wisdom
Zongerfield posts quote from Bible
If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.
James 1:5



3 Zongerfield tries to convince people that he is applying Christian teachings that has the bible as his guide yet he has beliefs that are contrary to biblical teachings
SEE 1 above





4 Zongerfield has no influence, support, or respect from the posters on this forum.
Check the last several hundred replies to your post and you will see that you have no influence or respect from the posters on this forum.



Zongerfield, you have repeatly told us that you are a Christian. Christians strive for humility and wisdom along with other attributes. On this forum your attitude has met a great deal of opposition. Are you open to considering that your attitude could be helped by someone else? If you are really serious about being open to other Christian thoughts and making friends on this forum would you consider incorporating some of the attitudes that is in the poem below?

I'M A CHRISTIAN​

When I say... "I am a Christian" I'm not shouting "I'm clean livin'.​

I'm whispering "I was lost," Now I'm found and forgiven.​

When I say..."I am a Christian" I don't speak of this with pride.​

I'm confessing that I stumble and need CHRIST to be my guide.​

When I say... "I am a Christian" I'm not trying to be strong.​

I'm professing that I'm weak and need HIS strength to carry on.​

When I say... "I am a Christian" I'm not bragging of success.​

I'm admitting I have failed and need God to clean my mess.​

When I say... "I am a Christian" I'm not claiming to be perfect,​

My flaws are far too visible but, God believes I am worth it.​

When I say... "I am a Christian" I still feel the sting of pain,​

I have my share of heartaches ...So I call upon His name.​

When I say... "I am a Christian" I'm not holier than thou,​

I'm just a simple sinner who received God's good grace, somehow.​

Zongerfield, if you are not willing to see that you have an offensive approach to others on this forum with your spiritual posts, and if you are not willing to consider the poem above and other posts on this forum then you are not going to have any influence or get much support or respect on this forum.

 

[Snow Phoenix]

I've actively participated in a discussion that involved name-calling, fear-mongering, blasphemy, hypocritical language, and ugliness to a depth and degree I didn't expect.

Well it's good you went over all your previous posts here and picked up on all the name-calling, fear-mongering, blasphemy, hypocritical language and ugliness in your writing.

I believe we are all better than this. And I will pray that we will restore civility to this forum.

You seem to be the only one who thinks civility was ever lost.

Bless you all. I forgive you, and I will pray for you.

I pity you and hope you get an education.
^I'm going to keep doing what Nathan is doing. It seems like a good response. Still doesn't sound good, does it?

 

[TerranceL]

I'm confused. Does anyone here feel like they have stepped out of line?

Not really.

Here's what's happened.

Person A: I support genocide.

Person B: That's cool.

Person C: That's horrific how can you be ok with that?

Person B: STOP PERSECUTING ME I FORGIVE YOU!

Person C: Wait what?

 

[Snow Phoenix]

Not really.

Here's what's happened.

Person A: I support genocide.

Person B: That's cool.

Person C: That's horrific how can you be ok with that?

Person B: STOP PERSECUTING ME I FORGIVE YOU!

Person C: Wait what?

That's... so perfect it's scary.

 

[variant]

Not really.

Here's what's happened.

Person A: I support genocide.

Person B: That's cool.

Person C: That's horrific how can you be ok with that?

Person B: STOP PERSECUTING ME I FORGIVE YOU!

Person C: Wait what?

It has a certain surreal quality to it.

I'm confused. Does anyone here feel like they have stepped out of line?

No, but there has been a spectacular amount of overt forgiveness leveed anyway.

 

[TheReasoner]

I'm confused. Does anyone here feel like they have stepped out of line?

Nope. I try not to do so ever. However, I do fail at times. If i have done so here i trust you - or tulc or Poe or someone else would have said so. But no, I don't think I have.

Not really.

Here's what's happened.

Person A: I support genocide.

Person B: That's cool.

Person C: That's horrific how can you be ok with that?

Person B: STOP PERSECUTING ME I FORGIVE YOU!

Person C: Wait what?

Yep. That's pretty much the summary of this thread right there.

Btw: I dared to ask the mods about this:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7555131/

 

[HosannaHM]

Not really.

Here's what's happened.

Person A: I support genocide.

Person B: That's cool.

Person C: That's horrific how can you be ok with that?

Person B: STOP PERSECUTING ME I FORGIVE YOU!

Person C: Wait what?

Wow that is accurate! Gotta love how person B offends everyone and plays the victim!

 

[Snow Phoenix]

Nope. I try not to do so ever. Og vokter i fail at times. If i have done so here i trust you - or tulc or Poe or someone else would have said so. But no, I don't think I have.

You most definitely haven't. You easily one of the most sincere members participating in this thread. You honesty and humbleness is extremely refreshing

 

[HosannaHM]

No, but there has been a spectacular amount of overt forgiveness leveed anyway.

I hear that. I didn't know you could forgive someone when they hadn't done anything to you. But Zonger is full of empty forgiveness and no apologies

 

[HosannaHM]

You most definitely haven't. You easily one of the most sincere members participating in this thread. You honesty and humbleness is extremely refreshing

Snow is absolutely right Faith. You're very uplifting and comforting in my opinion