I don't believe in evolution... (2)

[TheReasoner]

Yep.

"War is peace, Freedom is slavery, Ignorance is strength"

 

[Zongerfield]

Ah. So you ARE a Clirusian.

No, I am a Christian.

Zongerfield, there are a couple of instances in the bible where genocide is ordered specifically by God. These are not a general thing however, Israel didn't have a "license to exterminate" which they could use at their own behest. Which is what apparently both you and Clirus believe the US does.

God ordered them to kill all that breathe. They had a "license to exterminate" that was granted by God. This is a biblical fact.

(By the same logic you applied to the Muslim brotherhood, shouldn't Japan have retaliated - with an even more devastating genocidal attack, intending to kill every living US citizen after Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Any student of history knows that what the Japanese did to the people of China, Indo-China, and the Phillipines is worse than genocide (or at least it's equivalent, remember Nanking).

And what of all the other countries wherein the US has wrought great destruction for no reason apart from their own profit? Shouldn't then by your principle your nation burn for it's violent crimes? And if it should (it should, if we follow your principle, make no mistake) then shouldn't you be allowed to retaliate against the atrocities visited on your people as a repayment for your atrocities against them? You see, such actions are not actions and policies we as human beings should ever pick up on behalf of ourselves or on our own initiative.

I believe there is evil in the world. And I believe we need to terminate it. You cannot negotiate with evil.

I'm sure others have harsher words for you. As for me, I am mostly deeply disappointed and grieve that you would embrace such evil, Zongerfield. I should certainly think the verse I quoted holds rather firmly.

I don't embrace evil, i loathe evil. Which is why i support its eradication.

An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.
Or as Jesus - you know, the guy&God we're supposed to worship - said:
"You have heard it said, `an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, do not set yourself in violent or revengeful resistance against an evildoer." (Matthew 5:38)
"Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord." (Romans 12:19)

I largely agree with this. But exigent circumstances call for swift and decisive action that will, in the end, save lives and protect freedom.

 

[Skavau]

Zongerfield:

Clirus is presenting her genocidal tendencies and ideals as something that should happen now. She has not specified when, or how but only that it should happen. She is directly supporting the execution of all non-conformist atheists that don't adopt the Christian lifestyle. Does that mean that you agree with her and hold that I should be forced, by law to adopt a lifestyle I don't adhere to or die?

 

[TheReasoner]

No, I am a Christian.

Who embraces the killing of innocent civilians with intent to exterminate them?

God ordered them to kill all that breathe. They had a "license to exterminate" that was granted by God. This is a biblical fact.

Show me where God says "Feel free to exterminate whoever you want".

Any student of history knows that what the Japanese did to the people of China, Indo-China, and the Phillipines is worse than genocide (or at least it's equivalent, remember Nanking).

And that justifies nuking two cities, killing tens of thousands who were innocent of those actions?
Two wrongs don't make a right.

I believe there is evil in the world. And I believe we need to terminate it. You cannot negotiate with evil.

So we should kill Clirus?
Sorry, I'm a Christian. I don't believe in that. I try to follow the teachings of Christ.

Tell me Zongerfield, as a student of history, how well does this approach you embrace work?

I don't embrace evil, i loathe evil. Which is why i support its eradication.

By killing people?
Is that something you see in Jesus' life? What did HE do when faced with people you and Clirus would kill? He forgave. Now, the pharisees however...

I largely agree with this. But exigent circumstances call for swift and decisive action that will, in the end, save lives and protect freedom.

So, you are God?
Who are you to decide that entire peoples should die to further your cause?
How on earth can you profess to be a Christian while supporting genocide? You know what I call that Zongerfield? Blasphemy, that's what I call promoting murder in Jesus' name.

 

[Charlie V]

"War is peace, Freedom is slavery, Ignorance is strength"

Ah... I was paraphrasing Orwell and I didn't realize it.

Doublespeak.

Charlie

 

[HosannaHM]

ZONGERFIELD

Thanks for ignoring my previous post again

 

[TheReasoner]

Ah... I was paraphrasing Orwell and I didn't realize it.

Doublespeak.

Charlie

Aye. Seeing as this is all quite insane such paraphrasing does make pretty good sense.
Creepy. Outright terrifying to see it come from people professing to follow a God of love, but there it is.

 

[tulc]

No, I am a Christian.

I believe that.

God ordered them to kill all that breathe. They had a "license to exterminate" that was granted by God. This is a biblical fact.

Do you want to execute your neighbor for doing yard work on Saturday? That's also in those same Laws. If not, who gave you the right to pick and choose which Laws you obey and which you ignore?

Any student of history knows that what the Japanese did to the people of China, Indo-China, and the Phillipines is worse than genocide (or at least it's equivalent, remember Nanking).

So? Again, unless your goal is to bring us under the Old Testament Law of "An eye for an eye" I'm not sure how that applies.

I believe there is evil in the world. And I believe we need to terminate it. You cannot negotiate with evil.

Wow...now you're exterminating the entire human race. That's the only way to "terminate evil".

I don't embrace evil, i loathe evil. Which is why i support its eradication.

Ahhh! I see a wall pocked with bullet holes and blood in my future. Because I have to be honest, I can be pretty evil sometimes. I've been known to work on Saturday, wear mixed fabrics, eaten ham and even the occasional cheeseburger.

I largely agree with this. But exigent circumstances call for swift and decisive action that will, in the end, save lives and protect freedom.

Ahhh! I see where part of the problem lies now! You seem to think things happen in the world that catches God by surprise! He said in Romans:

19Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

what He meant was "...Unless something really bad happens, then you need to go all Old Testament on their buttocks!"
or in Luke:

27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, 28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

I have to be honest here; those Scriptures don't seem to have much wiggle room in them.
tulc(tends to try and do what the Bible says rather then look for an out)

 

[Zongerfield]

ZONGERFIELD

Thanks for ignoring my previous post again

Sorry, so many people have been taking pot shots at me I didn't know whom to respond to.

 

[Nathan Poe]

So? Again, unless your goal is to bring us under the Old Testament Law of "An eye for an eye" I'm not sure how that applies.

It only applies to "Christians" who either don't want to or don't believe they're under the new covenant -- My understanding was that Christ fulfilled the old covenant on the cross.

I put "Christians" in quotes here because I can't imagine any Christian claiming that Christ's sacrifice somehow "didn't take," and thus we are still under the old covenant.

Or is my theology missing something?

Wow...now you're exterminating the entire human race. That's the only way to "terminate evil".

Sounds like a Zongerfield and clirus have the same Solution for anything they consider "evil"... a Final one.

Ahhh! I see a wall pocked with bullet holes and blood in my future. Because I have to be honest, I can be pretty evil sometimes. I've been known to work on Saturday, wear mixed fabrics, eaten ham and even the occasional cheeseburger.

Look on the bright side, tulc, maybe they'll run out of bullets on infidels like me first.

On the other hand, stones are reusable -- bad luck, that.

Ahhh! I see where part of the problem lies now! You seem to think things happen in the world that catches God by surprise!

Well, the God of the fundies does often seem to be asleep at the wheel -- why else would He need them to take up the slack and do His job for Him?

 

[HosannaHM]

Sorry, so many people have been taking pot shots at me I didn't know whom to respond to.

It's not a pot shot, more of a "rebuke" from my standpoint

 

[Nathan Poe]

It's not a pot shot, more of a "rebuke" from my standpoint

But of course, you should know that you can't "rebuke" True Christians -- they're infallible.

 

[Zongerfield]

Who embraces the killing of innocent civilians with intent to exterminate them?

Did God not order the Hebrews to kill ALL? Answer that question.

Show me where God says "Feel free to exterminate whoever you want".

He had a very clear directive, it wasn't "whomever you want." Nevertheless, a genocidal order was given by God.

And that justifies nuking two cities, killing tens of thousands who were innocent of those actions?
Two wrongs don't make a right.

Something had to be done to stop Japanese Imperial Empire from rolling over the entire East. The rape of Nanking was a horrible atrocity, one that would have been repeated, no doubt, if swift action was not taken.

Until we dropped those two nukes, the Japanese were prepared to fight to the last man, woman, and child to forward their imperialistic agenda. Had we not stopped them, there's a good chance we'd all be speaking Japanese (or German, or a hybrid of both).

This is an ugly truth. But this is how the world works. Your tired tune of violence begets violence is something that doesn't hold water with regards to this exigent circumstance - we nuked them, we denuded their efforts to take over the world and since then, we've actually had a very good relationship with Japan.

So we should kill Clirus?
Sorry, I'm a Christian. I don't believe in that. I try to follow the teachings of Christ.

Of course not. She is a Christian, and your hyperbolic appeal is a childish attempt to make a point.

Tell me Zongerfield, as a student of history, how well does this approach you embrace work?

As i've already stated, we don't pay homage to the Emperor of Japan ever morning when we wake up, we don't speak Japanese as our native language, and we are not indentured servants to the Empire of Japan, so history embraces my approach.

By killing people?
Is that something you see in Jesus' life? What did HE do when faced with people you and Clirus would kill? He forgave. Now, the pharisees however...

God ordered the killing of those who spurned him.

So, you are God?
Who are you to decide that entire peoples should die to further your cause?
How on earth can you profess to be a Christian while supporting genocide? You know what I call that Zongerfield? Blasphemy, that's what I call promoting murder in Jesus' name.

No, and this is another pathetic attempt to make a point. No, I am not God. But I am keenly aware that there is evil in the world, and when evil rises up to threaten the existence of the free world, it must be dealt with. If not, it festers and grows and we have the third Reich marking through the Arc de Triomphe...

The pacifist mentality works for those who want to save and protect oak trees in college towns, but when it comes to dealing with real evil, ie Nazis, a more confrontational approach is what works. And perhaps you need to reread the Old Testament to get a sense of how God deals with those who seek to destroy, spurn, or rebuke his vision for the world.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Did God not order the Hebrews to kill ALL? Answer that question.

Why yes, He has -- on several occasions.

How many have you killed?

He had a very clear directive, it wasn't "whomever you want." Nevertheless, a genocidal order was given by God.

Which, in and of itself, is reason enough to reject such a monster in this day and age, where we understand there are ways to deal with our enemies that don't involve extermination.

Something had to be done to stop Japanese Imperial Empire from rolling over the entire East. The rape of Nanking was a horrible atrocity, one that would have been repeated, no doubt, if swift action was not taken.

And yet, in clear violation of God's M.O., we not only let the Japanese live, we rebuilt their nation after the war was over -- has God ever given such an order?

No -- because unless you kill every last one, you're not being Biblical, are you?

God ordered the killing of those who spurned him.

I'm spurning him right now -- you going to kill me, or not?

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

I don't think I've ever seen a Christian proudly defend the massacres of the Old Testament, and even call them "genocide" as if it was a good or honorable thing. Wow.

 

[Nathan Poe]

I don't think I've ever seen a Christian proudly defend the massacres of the Old Testament, and even call them "genocide" as if it was a good or honorable thing. Wow.

The kind of people who cheer this sort of thing on tend to be the ones who would happily have it done it all over again.

It's easy to exterminate people when you think God wants you to -- I suspect that's the only rationalization that works.

 

[HosannaHM]

But of course, you should know that you can't "rebuke" True Christians -- they're infallible.

Any Christian that thinks they are not infallible is not a Christian at all

 

[HosannaHM]

I don't think I've ever seen a Christian proudly defend the massacres of the Old Testament, and even call them "genocide" as if it was a good or honorable thing. Wow.

That's because extremely radical bigots jump on verses like this instead of thinking about the context of the Scripture

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

That's because extremely radical bigots jump on verses like this instead of thinking about the context of the Scripture

I'm just amazed that someone could read them and say "this is something we need more of in society today". No matter what any of us believe, if there is any moral fiber in us, we can agree that genocide is a bad thing.

But apparently not Big Z. I thought he had potential but he has just dug himself a hole that is far too deep at this point.

 

[HosannaHM]

Did God not order the Hebrews to kill ALL? Answer that question.

Did God order you? Check the context.

He had a very clear directive, it wasn't "whomever you want." Nevertheless, a genocidal order was given by God.

Context

Something had to be done to stop Japanese Imperial Empire from rolling over the entire East. The rape of Nanking was a horrible atrocity, one that would have been repeated, no doubt, if swift action was not taken.

Until we dropped those two nukes, the Japanese were prepared to fight to the last man, woman, and child to forward their imperialistic agenda. Had we not stopped them, there's a good chance we'd all be speaking Japanese (or German, or a hybrid of both).

WW2 is a bit different than what you're advocating today. As Clirus posted earlier we should "round up all the atheists" and dispatch of them. Genocide

This is an ugly truth. But this is how the world works. Your tired tune of violence begets violence is something that doesn't hold water with regards to this exigent circumstance - we nuked them, we denuded their efforts to take over the world and since then, we've actually had a very good relationship with Japan.

And what's to say of your tireless irrefutable bigotry? No rebukes for you eh?

Of course not. She is a Christian, and your hyperbolic appeal is a childish attempt to make a point.

You can say nothing of hypocrisy. I really don't need to explain this

God ordered the killing of those who spurned him.

Indeed He did, but He hasn't ordered you.

No, and this is another pathetic attempt to make a point. No, I am not God. But I am keenly aware that there is evil in the world, and when evil rises up to threaten the existence of the free world, it must be dealt with. If not, it festers and grows and we have the third Reich marking through the Arc de Triomphe...

The pacifist mentality works for those who want to save and protect oak trees in college towns, but when it comes to dealing with real evil, ie Nazis, a more confrontational approach is what works. And perhaps you need to reread the Old Testament to get a sense of how God deals with those who seek to destroy, spurn, or rebuke his vision for the world.

Wow... The audacity of some people blows my mind. Who are you oh man? What gives you the authority to speak on the behalf of Jesus Christ? The man who came to save the world while you scurry on here to condemn the same kind of people he saved. Am i jumping on a wagon of "Clirus haters"? NO. You throw everyone in a basket because WE DON't AGREE (which you associate with hating her, which NO ONE said they hate her)
I've seen Christian brotherhood man, and you are causing derision. You will probably ignore this post as well, but if your eyes do happen to gander over it I ask that you stop and think. THINK. Why do you say the things you do and carry yourself over us? Come back down to our level and stop speaking like a Pharisee.

Psalm 138:6 says "Though the LORD is on high, he looks upon the lowly, but the proud he knows from afar."

Still feeling righteous?