I desperately need valid proof of creationism.

[lismore]

A friend sent me this article 'How to Prove Evolutionists Wrong'. You may find it interesting:

1 Way 2 God

 

[PrincetonGuy]

A friend sent me this article 'How to Prove Evolutionists Wrong'. You may find it interesting:

1 Way 2 God

Whether or not a man believes in the theory of evolution has no bearing whatsoever upon the quality of his relationship with Christ. Furthermore, the theory of evolution does not and cannot contradict God’s acts of Creation because the natural sciences and religion do not intersect but run parallel to each other and independently of each other with a line clearly drawn between the two. Scientists are especially careful to avoid crossing that line. However, young earth creationists—including their so-called “scientists”—routinely cross that line—and the consequences to evangelical Christianity have been catastrophic!

A very good example of crossing the line between science and religion is found in the writings of Creation Ministries International’s Donald James Batten,

“I came to see, after considerable prayer and study, that evolution is really a belief system parading as science. It is an alternative religion designed to banish the creator God to the realm of abstract philosophy…”​

Evangelical Christianity is a belief system based upon the Bible; the theory of evolution is a theory of science based upon hundreds of billions of pieces of data. As is the case with all so-called “scientists” who because of their belief system argue against “evolution,” Batten knows virtually nothing about the theory of evolution—and even less about the Bible!

 

[Stephen P]

Hi Check my post..
I'm trying the same thing.. Darwin vs God

 

[Stephen P]

Hello everyone,

I'm assuming that this is the correct subforum in which to post this topic, but if not, forgive me. Basically, I've grown up in a home that believes in 100% biblical inerrancy and that's what I've believed, but recently I've been having a lot of doubts about creationism in particular. There are a few articles and websites that I have read that seem to completely and almost convincingly refute the idea of creationism. I'll link them below.

Ken Ham's 10 facts that prove creationism - Debunked

Evidence against a recent creation - RationalWiki

An Index to Creationist Claims

Falsifiability of creationism - RationalWiki

How am I, as a Christian, supposed to keep my belief in biblical inerrancy when there are all of these rebuttals that seemingly debunk creationism? Why can't creationists come up with good rebuttals to evolutionists' claims and rebuttals? If the creation story and the fall of man aren't true then is there no original sin by Adam? If there wasn't then why did God even have to send Christ to die for us, or did He? Was there even divine intervention in the universe's creation or formation? Is my faith just weak? I don't mean to cause controversy, I just really need some answers. I'm so tired of doubting my whole life. If these can't be answered, I'm afraid I may start to slip away to agnosticism. So, if anyone has answers, please share them.

Thank you!

From Dust to Man: A Scientific Proof

I'm doing it another way.
I'm using scientific facts and trying to apply them to the Bible.
Two things.
The Richard Dawkins example I've already mentioned where his theory on natural selection from millions of possibilities that could also be seen as God choosing the path of evolution from that same millions of possibilities.

The other is Shroeder. I never thought about HOW Adam was formed, just that I believe in Human development from apes. Shroeder concentrated on the real Bible verse that says THE ADAM not Adam.
"This paragraph, however, only introduces the creationof the ‘adam. Much more needed to be said, that did not fit this chapter’s purposes or literary structures. Genesis 2 is that ‚much more.‛
"
https://nts.whdl.org/sites/default/files/publications/WynkoopCenter_The Creation Mandate 1-5_1.pdf

The ADAM now seems in this context to be the Spirit of God. So at some stage on the development of man from monkeys, God takes one line of apes and gives them His ADAM. God is Spirit not dirt.
"God Formed Man from clay.." This is correct, WAY back thats exactly what DNA / bacteria is made from .. man has all the same elements as the Topsoil of the Earth.

 

[Stephen P]

Hello everyone,

If these can't be answered, I'm afraid I may start to slip away to agnosticism. So, if anyone has answers, please share them.

Thank you!

Additional stuff I found.
History of Life on Earth | Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History

This is close to matching the composition of the other Planets. Ours is the only Planet with abundance of Oxygen. But In the Beginning, it wasn't.

Note also, the man's rib was used to create Eve. Why? Ribs in Humans are regenerative.
National Scoliosis Foundation

s.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Hello everyone,

I'm assuming that this is the correct subforum in which to post this topic, but if not, forgive me. Basically, I've grown up in a home that believes in 100% biblical inerrancy and that's what I've believed, but recently I've been having a lot of doubts about creationism in particular. There are a few articles and websites that I have read that seem to completely and almost convincingly refute the idea of creationism. I'll link them below.

Ken Ham's 10 facts that prove creationism - Debunked

Evidence against a recent creation - RationalWiki

An Index to Creationist Claims

Falsifiability of creationism - RationalWiki

How am I, as a Christian, supposed to keep my belief in biblical inerrancy when there are all of these rebuttals that seemingly debunk creationism? Why can't creationists come up with good rebuttals to evolutionists' claims and rebuttals? If the creation story and the fall of man aren't true then is there no original sin by Adam? If there wasn't then why did God even have to send Christ to die for us, or did He? Was there even divine intervention in the universe's creation or formation? Is my faith just weak? I don't mean to cause controversy, I just really need some answers. I'm so tired of doubting my whole life. If these can't be answered, I'm afraid I may start to slip away to agnosticism. So, if anyone has answers, please share them.

Thank you!

Where do I start? How about whales? They are completely air breathers and live in the ocean. They need sleep as mammals do. One half of the brain sleeps at one time so that the animal can come up for air. The first whale had to have the half brain capability or it drowned. That would have been the end of the whale species there and then. How did the whale know to keep half its brain active? There are countless other roadblocks.

You could also check out this web site:
www.ScienceAgainstEvolution.org

 

[Stephen P]

Where do I start? How about whales? They are completely air breathers and live in the ocean. They need sleep as mammals do. One half of the brain sleeps at one time so that the animal can come up for air. The first whale had to have the half brain capability or it drowned. That would have been the end of the whale species there and then. How did the whale know to keep half its brain active? There are countless other roadblocks.

You could also check out this web site:
www.ScienceAgainstEvolution.org

I believe that's an easy one to answer.
Brain Stem. It was there before any other part of the brain.
My father had a brain stem blockage and lost the ability to use his throat or part of his stomach, but could still breath perfectly OK and talk.
I have not had the pleasure, but have seen video of squirrels, feral dogs, feral pigs and rabbits shot in the head, also I had to view a video of someone who fell on their head from 4 stories.
Each continues to flail, tail wag, attempt to flee but with no direction etc.
There is a picture of a deer drinking and a croc charges at it. The deer has a flinch reaction that we also have when we touch something hot.
We ourselves keep breathing during sleep.
We keep standing on the whole automatically, even eyes closed so we are not judging distance or movement, but just based of body position and ear canal feelings; and you can see that when it gets inhibited by alcohol, we start losing that ability.
So the Whales have that same sort of ability, We stand, they sleep.

There are many automatic brain functions.

 

[Job 33:6]

Where do I start? How about whales? They are completely air breathers and live in the ocean. They need sleep as mammals do. One half of the brain sleeps at one time so that the animal can come up for air. The first whale had to have the half brain capability or it drowned. That would have been the end of the whale species there and then. How did the whale know to keep half its brain active? There are countless other roadblocks.

You could also check out this web site:
www.ScienceAgainstEvolution.org

Saw this article as well:

Half Your Brain Stands Guard When Sleeping In A New Place

In màny cases, animals already have features or capabilities, prior to making leaps in how they evolve. The capability of sleeping with half the brain would have likely pre existed whales.

And here is actually another article suggesting this very same suggestion.

Behavioral, neurophysiological and evolutionary perspectives on unihemispheric sleep - ScienceDirect

It's the same thing with fish to amphibian or land to sea evolution. Someone might say, well how did a fish evolve to walk on land if it couldn't breathe air?

Well the simple solution is that fish likely breathed air before evolving to walk on land. And as strange as this sounds, many fish actually breathe air today, and prehistoric fish had primitive lungs as well, as evidenced by spiracles on fossil skulls. Collectively, fish breathe air so that if oxygen levels drop under water, they can survive by coming up to the surface.

Another example:
How could birds evolve wings or why would birds evolve wings if they couldn't fly? Well, much like today, there are flightless birds that use things like feathers for alternative functions. Ancestral reptiles had feathers too.

So the point is that in cases like these, it is often the case that animals actually already have the capability to do something, prior to making the leap.

 

[Stephen P]

If natural selection chose the path, then whales die by drowning.
I would guess that when whales were half in half out of water (have a look at their legs and hips in the skeletons), some survived by having more ability to automatically process the process of how to keep breathing.
Say, the steps were like DNA ( but i'll use letters)
Say there was 10 steps to go from land breathing to being able to automatically come up for air underwater.
If I use letters, then at each step there is 26 combinations making 26^10 combinations (1000000 0000000000 0000000000.).
Whale number 325326326365, achieved this, plugging the response (R S W Q H I T B C C) into Brain cubicle number 234873849345.
Now natural selection could take 14 billion years to achieve this, OR God could choose to have just plugged R S W Q H I T B C C into Brain cubicle number 234873849345.
This is what I saw when I was at the Richard Dawkins presentation in the 70's.

(Oh yeah, we have a strangulation reaction that makes us flail in water, so we are also getting to the stage where we could go back to the water ourselves.)
Cheers
Stephen

 

[Stephen P]

Saw this article as well:

Half Your Brain Stands Guard When Sleeping In A New Place

In màny cases, animals already have features or capabilities, prior to making leaps in how they evolve. The capability of sleeping with half the brain would have likely pre existed whales.

THANKS KomatiiteBIF!
That's fantastic.
And I have MUCH better explained my Dawkins Presentation story what I believe could happen with the rest of the features/capabilities.
So both could happen in combination.
Now if we knew how that is fixed into our brains, we could work out how long it would take to develop..

 

[Stephen P]

THANKS KomatiiteBIF!
That's fantastic.
And I have MUCH better explained my Dawkins Presentation story what I believe could happen with the rest of the features/capabilities.
So both could happen in combination.
Now if we knew how that is fixed into our brains, we could work out how long it would take to develop..

But DNA analysis published in 1997 suggests a date of about 130,000 years ago for the transformation of wolves to dogs. This means that wolves began to adapt to human society long before humans settled down and began practicing agriculture.
Evolution: Library: Evolution of the Dog

So only 130,000 years. Not Billions, NOT even millions, but 8% of a Million years.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Saw this article as well:

Half Your Brain Stands Guard When Sleeping In A New Place

In màny cases, animals already have features or capabilities, prior to making leaps in how they evolve. The capability of sleeping with half the brain would have likely pre existed whales.

And here is actually another article suggesting this very same suggestion.

Behavioral, neurophysiological and evolutionary perspectives on unihemispheric sleep - ScienceDirect

It's the same thing with fish to amphibian or land to sea evolution. Someone might say, well how did a fish evolve to walk on land if it couldn't breathe air?

Well the simple solution is that fish likely breathed air before evolving to walk on land. And as strange as this sounds, many fish actually breathe air today, and prehistoric fish had primitive lungs as well, as evidenced by spiracles on fossil skulls. Collectively, fish breathe air so that if oxygen levels drop under water, they can survive by coming up to the surface.

Another example:
How could birds evolve wings or why would birds evolve wings if they couldn't fly? Well, much like today, there are flightless birds that use things like feathers for alternative functions. Ancestral reptiles had feathers too.

So the point is that in cases like these, it is often the case that animals actually already have the capability to do something, prior to making the leap.

Maybe, perhaps, possibly - the language of evolutionists. Who then have the hide to criticise those who disagree with their point of view. Evolution is a crock. Fish do not survive low O2 levels in water. They die, as we find too often in Australia. So no, low O2 levels did not drive fish from the water to land.

 

[Stephen P]

BTW I'm trying to re-find the article that said that scientists were trying to get computers to reprogram unused parts of the brain.
Imagine if the Government thought The part of the brain that held Religion was not necessary and should be replaced?
I'm getting a lot of "Computers reprogramming your brain"
That's another evolution?
For example, if we want to close something we automatically look top right (or ALT+F4).
Bottom left for menus (Or Windows)
I wonder if there was a study done that tested people.
"CLOSE the window!" (pointing at house window)
And see if people automatically look top right, as they have stored Item CLOSE the window with action Top Right.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I believe that's an easy one to answer.
Brain Stem. It was there before any other part of the brain.
My father had a brain stem blockage and lost the ability to use his throat or part of his stomach, but could still breath perfectly OK and talk.
I have not had the pleasure, but have seen video of squirrels, feral dogs, feral pigs and rabbits shot in the head, also I had to view a video of someone who fell on their head from 4 stories.
Each continues to flail, tail wag, attempt to flee but with no direction etc.
There is a picture of a deer drinking and a croc charges at it. The deer has a flinch reaction that we also have when we touch something hot.
We ourselves keep breathing during sleep.
We keep standing on the whole automatically, even eyes closed so we are not judging distance or movement, but just based of body position and ear canal feelings; and you can see that when it gets inhibited by alcohol, we start losing that ability.
So the Whales have that same sort of ability, We stand, they sleep.

There are many automatic brain functions.

The research begs to differ. Part of the brain in a whale shuts down. It goes to sleep. If the whole of the brain shut down, the whale would drown. It's that simple.

 

[Job 33:6]

BTW I'm trying to re-find the article that said that scientists were trying to get computers to reprogram unused parts of the brain.
Imagine if the Government thought The part of the brain that held Religion was not necessary and should be replaced?
I'm getting a lot of "Computers reprogramming your brain"
That's another evolution?
For example, if we want to close something we automatically look top right (or ALT+F4).
Bottom left for menus (Or Windows)
I wonder if there was a study done that tested people.
"CLOSE the window!" (pointing at house window)
And see if people automatically look top right, as they have stored Item CLOSE the window with action Top Right.

Sure. I actually added more to my prior post. More detail anyway.

 

[Stephen P]

Maybe, perhaps, possibly - the language of evolutionists. Who then have the hide to criticise those who disagree with their point of view. Evolution is a crock. Fish do not survive low O2 levels in water. They die, as we find too often in Australia. So no, low O2 levels did not drive fish from the water to land.

True, We will Never survive some Car accidents for example.
There is always going to be a 100% failure rate somewhere.
OK so your new topic is What would drive fish from water to land?

By the way, on the same topic of species replacement theres many people upset about koalas dying out. I wonder if we asked the Aborigines 50,000 years ago if they were upset that their favourite edible mammal was dying out and being replaced by the cute but inedible koala.
By the way, I've eaten Emu, and Kangaroo meat, Brother has also eaten Crocodile meat.

"At least 90 species have gone extinct in Australia over the past two centuries, and the country now has the inglorious honor of holding the record for the most mammalian extinctions in the world, including the first mammal declared extinct from climate change — the Bramble Cay melomys."

Yeah we are pretty stuffed. We are coming out of an ice age, we are right in the middle of the downward phase of the Hadley cell, we released rabbits, we used European farming techniques - ie crops requiring MUCH water, instead of looking at the Aborigines growing and storing 4 tonne of native yams in the desert. (See the book Dark Emu)

 

[Job 33:6]

Sure. I actually added more to my prior post. More detail anyway.

Here's another research article saying the same thing that I mentioned above:

Our data show that (1) juvenile saltwater crocodiles engage in UEC, (2) we can elicit the behaviour in response to visual stimuli and (3) the animals preferentially orient their open eye towards the salient stimulus. These results are broadly consistent with those of Mathews et al. (2006) on UEC in fence lizards, and with observations from unihemispherically sleeping birds and aquatic mammals (Rattenborg et al., 2000; Lyamin et al., 2008). Consequently, these data might suggest that crocodilians engage in unihemispheric sleep. If true, then unihemispheric sleep is likely to have been present in the most recent common ancestor to archosaurs (crocodilians and dinosaurs, including birds), and given the phylogenetic breadth of UEC across reptiles (Rattenborg et al., 2000), may have evolved even earlier, perhaps in the ancestor to Sauropsids (avian and non-avian reptiles) or in the stem amniote with a subsequent loss of the state in the ancestor to mammals. Alternatively, and equally interesting, is the possibility that UEC first evolved in early Sauropsids for a purpose beyond that of sleeping unihemispherically, perhaps related to focusing visual acuity and attention in a lateralized brain (Rogers, 2008) and/or eliminating superfluous parts of a visual field in animals with laterally placed eyes (Mathews et al., 2006). Birds then evolved the ability to enter sleep with the hemisphere associated with the closed eye as a derived feature of sleep. If true, then unihemispheric sleep may have first evolved in the archosaur lineage with the appearance of birds by elaborating upon a pre-existing behaviour inherited from a common ancestor with non-avian reptiles. Distinguishing between these two ideas will require electrophysiological recordings from both brain hemispheres of crocodiles engaged in UEC, and would do much to enlighten our understanding of the evolutionary history of unihemispheric sleep.

Unihemispheric sleep in crocodilians?

Basically just noting a feasibility that unihemispheric sleep actually evolved and was present in animals long before whales even existed.

Which means that such a dilemma in which whales were drowning wouldn't have logically needed to exist, because whales (terrestrial cetaceans) could sleep with half the brain prior to even going into the water.

 

[Stephen P]

The research begs to differ. Part of the brain in a whale shuts down. It goes to sleep. If the whole of the brain shut down, the whale would drown. It's that simple.

Yep, but the Brain Stem is like the CPU and the rest of the Brain is like the Ram doing all the logical stuff.
In this case, I would be looking at seeing researchers saying that the brain stem decides when and which half to turn off.

 

[Job 33:6]

The second suggestion is actually interesting too. Dinosaurs had eyes on opposing sides of the face, so shutting down half the brain to enhance observation with their eye on the other half of the brain, is really a thoughtful suggestion.

But either way, both suggestions indicate unihemispheric sleep as something dating back to the mesozoic, or even carboniferous, long before whales existed.

 

[Stephen P]

Here's another research article saying the same thing that I mentioned above:

Our data show that (1) juvenile saltwater crocodiles engage in UEC, (2) we can elicit the behaviour in response to visual stimuli and (3) the animals preferentially orient their open eye towards the salient stimulus. These results are broadly consistent with those of Mathews et al. (2006) on UEC in fence lizards, and with observations from unihemispherically sleeping birds and aquatic mammals (Rattenborg et al., 2000; Lyamin et al., 2008). Consequently, these data might suggest that crocodilians engage in unihemispheric sleep. If true, then unihemispheric sleep is likely to have been present in the most recent common ancestor to archosaurs (crocodilians and dinosaurs, including birds), and given the phylogenetic breadth of UEC across reptiles (Rattenborg et al., 2000), may have evolved even earlier, perhaps in the ancestor to Sauropsids (avian and non-avian reptiles) or in the stem amniote with a subsequent loss of the state in the ancestor to mammals. Alternatively, and equally interesting, is the possibility that UEC first evolved in early Sauropsids for a purpose beyond that of sleeping unihemispherically, perhaps related to focusing visual acuity and attention in a lateralized brain (Rogers, 2008) and/or eliminating superfluous parts of a visual field in animals with laterally placed eyes (Mathews et al., 2006). Birds then evolved the ability to enter sleep with the hemisphere associated with the closed eye as a derived feature of sleep. If true, then unihemispheric sleep may have first evolved in the archosaur lineage with the appearance of birds by elaborating upon a pre-existing behaviour inherited from a common ancestor with non-avian reptiles. Distinguishing between these two ideas will require electrophysiological recordings from both brain hemispheres of crocodiles engaged in UEC, and would do much to enlighten our understanding of the evolutionary history of unihemispheric sleep.

Unihemispheric sleep in crocodilians?

Basically just noting a feasibility that unihemispheric sleep actually evolved and was present in animals long before whales even existed.

Which means that such a dilemma in which whales were drowning wouldn't have logically needed to exist, because whales (terrestrial cetaceans) could sleep with half the brain prior to even going into the water.

Nice logic! That this sleep control is part of the brain stem makes more sense..
Wonder if theres a Bible verse about "Even the animals sleep half and half" or something like that.