I desperately need valid proof of creationism.

[Aussie Pete]

"In order to be able to expound the Scriptures, and as an aid to your pulpit studies, you will need to be familiar with the commentators: a glorious army, let me tell you, whose acquaintance will be your delight and profit. Of course, you are not such wiseacres as to think or say that you can expound Scripture without assistance from the works of divines and learned men who have laboured before you in the field of exposition. If you are of that opinion, pray remain so, for you are not worth the trouble of conversion, and like a little coterie who think with you, would resent the attempt as an insult to your infallibility. It seems odd, that certain men who talk so much of what the Holy Spirit reveals to themselves, should think so little of what he has revealed to others."

Charles Haddon Spurgeon
Commenting and Commentaries by C. H. Spurgeon

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. (NASB, 2020)

I have been helped by many great preachers/teachers over the 50 years of my Christian life. Some questions I had were not answered by any of them. So I sought the Lord. He answered me. There are some questions that I have still that God has chosen not to answer.

God speaks to His people now. Sometimes it is directly through the Word, sometimes through teachers and sometimes by direct revelation. Without the Holy Spirit's leading, no teacher or Bible verse would have any impact other than to confuse. When I receive revelation directly, I always confirm it by comparing to God's Word.

 

[Aussie Pete]

My memory is good enough to know that the estimates were refined to more and more accurate estimates. My memory is also good enough to know that the largest young earth creationist organizations formally taught that the earth is only about 6,000 years old, but they are now more and more often claiming that the earth is about 10,000 years old even though that “refinement” does not come from either the Bible or science.

In his booklet, The Genesis Flood, Fact or Fiction?, Tas Walker of Christian Ministries International agrees with John Woodmorappe’s teaching that the word “kind” in Genesis (Hebrew, מִין) refers to what we now call a genus, as in “the cat kind, the horse kind, and the cow kind.” But, of course, this is nothing but young earth creationist mumbo jumbo because, for example, the “cat kind” is not a genus, but a family (Felidae) comprised of 14 genera. Furthermore, Woodmorappe and Walker claim that all modern animals in the cat kind “descended” from one “parent kind.” But—what do they mean by the word, “descended”? They mean a biological process known by everyone else as “evolution”!

But, you may ask, “What does this have to do with the age of the earth?” Answer: the age of the earth has been measured using a technique known as radiometric dating and found to be 4.54 billion years old. Young earth crationists have their own expert in radiometric dating whom they cite to challege the age of 4.54 billion years. This expert is none other than John Woodmorappe! Who is John Woodmorappe? He is a high school teacher with no degrees of any kind in physics!

The age of the earth (4.54 billion years) is a very well established known. An excellent article explaining, from an evangelical Christian perspective, the source of this knowledge can be found here:

Radiometric Dating

Radiometric dating is a crock. Volcanic rocks courtesy of Mt St Helens were dated at millions of years. The problem is that the eruption was a few years prior to the dating. Dating methods require assumptions that simply cannot be proven. There is no way to calibrate such assumptions. The whole system of dating is flawed. Rocks are assumed to be a certain age, so fossils found in them must be the same age. If a fossil is found the other side of the world then the rocks are assumed to be the same age. No, the earth has not been proven to be billions of years old. The moon would no longer be tied to earth's gravitational field and there would be no tides.

I believe there was a creation prior to Adam that was destroyed by a catastrophic event, perhaps a world wide flood. The creation account in Genesis is a fresh start. Adam, as we know, disobeyed God and the rest is history. The earth may be far older than 6,000 years. The fossils of the Cambrian era may have been God's judgement. There are other possibilities that fit the available evidence.

There is nothing certain about geology, dating the age of the earth or the myriad of conflicting explanations proposed by evolutionists. One thing is absolute: in the beginning, God. Satan is using godless science to blind the eyes of those who are perishing. A degree in science may be a liability in some senses. Being programmed to believe the false science world view may get an honours award, but it cuts no ice with God.

 

[Gary K]

Hello everyone,

I'm assuming that this is the correct subforum in which to post this topic, but if not, forgive me. Basically, I've grown up in a home that believes in 100% biblical inerrancy and that's what I've believed, but recently I've been having a lot of doubts about creationism in particular. There are a few articles and websites that I have read that seem to completely and almost convincingly refute the idea of creationism. I'll link them below.

Nonreligious Questions

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_against_a_recent_creation

An Index to Creationist Claims

Falsifiability of creationism

How am I, as a Christian, supposed to keep my belief in biblical inerrancy when there are all of these rebuttals that seemingly debunk creationism? Why can't creationists come up with good rebuttals to evolutionists' claims and rebuttals? If the creation story and the fall of man aren't true then is there no original sin by Adam? If there wasn't then why did God even have to send Christ to die for us, or did He? Was there even divine intervention in the universe's creation or formation? Is my faith just weak? I don't mean to cause controversy, I just really need some answers. I'm so tired of doubting my whole life. If these can't be answered, I'm afraid I may start to slip away to agnosticism. So, if anyone has answers, please share them.

Thank you!

The Bible tells us that without faith it is impossible to please God, thus "proving" creation is basically impossible. It's like proving God exists. It can't be done. Those who accept that God really exists have been taught He exists by the Holy Sprit. The same with creation. The HS has to reveal to us the presence and power of God to speak things into existence. There is no other way to believe in it.

Evolution is just as much a religion as Christianity as it must be accepted by faith as there is no proof. It's all supposition and conjecture by those who reject .God. Why do you think extremely long time frames are required for it to "work"? There is no way to verify those long ages and no missing links have ever been found. They have all been proven to be frauds. Most of the frauds have even been admitted to by the "discoverer". For example "Lucy" was admitted to be fraudulent. The bones were found 150 feet apart on a sidehill and yet they were presented as "proof " of evolution, I actually sat in a college classroom where a documentary was shown in which the men responsible for the fraud told the story of their "discovery" and the text book for the cultural anthropology class I was in used Lucy as an example. The author of the book knew Lucy was a fraud as the teacher of that class was a guy who knew the author and worked for him as a post graduate student at another nearby college. He just happened to be honest as he was a former Christian with enough integrity left to tell us the truth.

 

[atpollard]

My memory is also good enough to know that the largest young earth creationist organizations formally taught that the earth is only about 6,000 years old, but they are now more and more often claiming that the earth is about 10,000 years old even though that “refinement” does not come from either the Bible or science.

Nor do I support THEIR opinions as FACT.
I understand how the conclusion of 6000 years and 13.7 billion years were reached, and the assumptions upon which each conclusion are built.
I hold FACTS to a higher standard than opinions based on even reasonable assumptions.

 

[shadowhunter]

Hello everyone,

I'm assuming that this is the correct subforum in which to post this topic, but if not, forgive me. Basically, I've grown up in a home that believes in 100% biblical inerrancy and that's what I've believed, but recently I've been having a lot of doubts about creationism in particular. There are a few articles and websites that I have read that seem to completely and almost convincingly refute the idea of creationism. I'll link them below.

Nonreligious Questions

Evidence against a recent creation

An Index to Creationist Claims

Falsifiability of creationism

How am I, as a Christian, supposed to keep my belief in biblical inerrancy when there are all of these rebuttals that seemingly debunk creationism? Why can't creationists come up with good rebuttals to evolutionists' claims and rebuttals? If the creation story and the fall of man aren't true then is there no original sin by Adam? If there wasn't then why did God even have to send Christ to die for us, or did He? Was there even divine intervention in the universe's creation or formation? Is my faith just weak? I don't mean to cause controversy, I just really need some answers. I'm so tired of doubting my whole life. If these can't be answered, I'm afraid I may start to slip away to agnosticism. So, if anyone has answers, please share them.

Thank you!

Jesus said that if something is popular, there is probably something wrong with it. The most universal popular thing is: There is no proof for God. There is; not merely evidences but absolute proof. You can learn to hear God in a verifiable way. Once you learn to hear God, then believing what he says is no problem.

The church teaches you must believe to know. God said you can know before you believe. Isa 43:10 Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Peter said, "You are the Messiah...". Jesus said he had received a revelation from the Father, he then added to the revelation by showing Peter how to receive more. Mt 16:21 ¶ From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Peter knew the scriptures, saw what Jesus was doing, and the Father helped him correlate the two to make his declaration.
Jesus then taught Peter what he taught the leaders in the temple when he was twelve. How to read the mystery; how to see Christ in all the scripture.

When you see a prophetic riddle of Christ when no man has taught you, you can share it with another and they can verify it. The nature of riddle is that it cannot be solved from the contents of the riddle. You must know something else. The something else are the keys to the teaching: the symbols of the cross within the scriptures. When you share it, others can validate it because they can see the something else that you share. Then as you become familiar with his voice, you recognize it when he speaks to you personally in other areas.

Here are some 'something else's' from scripture, since scripture interprets scripture.
'Mustard' in Greek' sounds like 'bruised by anger' in Hebrew.
Jesus was the least among men because he served us all on the cross.
Herbs were given to man to eat.
Eating is a metaphor for learning.
The greatest thing men can eat is the body of Christ.

Now recall the parable of the Mustard seed.. oops.. The The Parable of the Seed bruised by anger.
The seed of the woman was the least of all the seed because Christ served us on the cross.
He had a bruised heel.

Christ grew to be the great teacher or herb.

He then went to the tree (cross) and the birds that fly/live in the air/spirit rest in the cross.

Now the seed comes from grass which was given to the cattle to eat.
You grind and bake seed (symbols of tribulation) to make bread (the body of Christ.

So at Christmas we take the seed (Jesus) and place him in a feeding trough surrounded by cattle as a promise of the cross.

God used words to create everything. Before he could use words he had to have letters. From the restored Notarikon we know the meaning of the letters, which, when read in order in the alphabet, give a message from God before creation. From this message John can say that the the Lamb was slain before ... and Paul can say you were chosen before.... the earth was made.

It is a short catechism as the foundation for all other doctrines.

Notarikon also tells us how to move the mountain to the sea.