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then what that tells me is he used force or threat of force to commit the offense that should be a felony, but that would be considered a violent felony. If he had simply gone in and just taken the case of beer then that would likely just be considered a shoplifting which is not a felony unless the person A steals property totaling over a certain amount (varies by state) or B has a record of theft offenses (in some states).It was in his state.
"ROBBERY CHARGES IN PENNSYLVANIA. If you have been arrested for robbery the penalties in Pennsylvania are very serious, as any type of robbery is considered a felony. A robbery is considered a violent crime and involves harming, or threatening to harm, someone by using physical force or a weapon."
May be to avoid the mess brains everywhere.If a person chooses to kill themselves, the gun is certainly irrelevant. People around here seem to like hanging themselves for some reason even though everyone has guns. I don't understand it.
No, they snuck through a window in a closed store. Like the law I quoted says any robbery is considered violence in Pa.then what that tells me is he used force or threat of force to commit the offense that should be a felony, but that would be considered a violent felony. If he had simply gone in and just taken the case of beer then that would likely just be considered a shoplifting which is not a felony unless the person A steals property totaling over a certain amount (varies by state) or B has a record of theft offenses (in some states).
depends on the state and the crime. In most cases the records are sealed at 18 or 21, but sometimes they will charge people younger than that as an adult or some states have a longer sealing period for certain violent crimes even if committed and convicted as a juvenile.You said he was a teenager at the time. I think juvenille records are sealed once a person turns 18.
If a person chooses to kill themselves, the gun is certainly irrelevant. People around here seem to like hanging themselves for some reason even though everyone has guns. I don't understand it.
but robbery usually involves force or fear ( now you can have burglary which is also a felony in most states and cases that does not involve force or fear or even forced entry. That sounds to me he was convicted of burglary ( again also a felony ( in most cases, but unlike robbery it does not involve force or fear of harm in fact you can commit a burglary without anyone at the home or business and without even forcing entry. Whereas, robbery requires that someone be there as otherwise there is no force (forcing entry usually does not count and there is no one to put in fearNo, they snuck through a window in a closed store. Like the law I quoted says any robbery is considered violence in Pa.
What law could we pass that would stop theft? Murder? Anything else that you think should be illegal? The answer is none. Doesn't mean that laws have no effect.What law could we pass that would stop gun violence?
In those cases that sounds like it was on the gun owner for not teaching gun safety and/or keeping the guns where very young children could access them without supervision. That does not suggest people should not keep guns that suggest that people need to be responsiable and teach gun safety and keep guns from very young children and/or people that they know or REASONABLLY should know are mentally unstable.Maybe you should ask the families of the million or so people who used a gun to kill themselves. Ask them if they thought it was a good idea to have guns around the house while you're at it.
An anecdote which illustrates the thought processes of some people re guns. In a forum a few years ago, a guy was arguing pro guns. Didn't see a problem. Had a few in his house. They're safe. Cars are more dangerous, guns don't kill people etc. Ad nauseum. And then someone joined the conversation who pointed out that a few years earlier, in the same forum, before some of us had joined, he had told how his kid brother had been accidently shot and killed because his old man kept guns in the house and, kids being kids...
So if seeing your brother's head being blown off in the back yard doesn't change your position on guns then there's no hope possible for a sensible discussion on the matter. Just as is happening in this thread.
BTW suicide should not even be included in gun violence stats. It's decieving.
I know a family who had a member hang himself, should I ask them if they have gotten rid of all ropes since? Killing yourself really isn't that difficult if you are determined.Maybe you should ask the families of the million or so people who used a gun to kill themselves. Ask them if they thought it was a good idea to have guns around the house while you're at it.
Exactly. Accidents aren't gun violence either. People drown all the time. We should outlaw water.I see. To reduce the number of gun related deaths, we'll just ignore all the times someone shot themselves in the head. Maybe we can take out the accidents as well. So that guy's kid brother wasn't part of the problem either. Yep, that'll do it. And perhaps we can take out all those killed who had a medical condition as well. Maybe they wouldn't have died if not for that condition. You can't automatically assume being shot is what killed them.
Gee, those numbers are falling fast!
gun violence and a gun death should be considered two different things. Violence is usually done with the intent to harm another person death is well when a person diesI see. To reduce the number of gun related deaths, we'll just ignore all the times someone shot themselves in the head. Maybe we can take out the accidents as well. So that guy's kid brother wasn't part of the problem either. Yep, that'll do it. And perhaps we can take out all those killed who had a medical condition as well. Maybe they wouldn't have died if not for that condition. You can't automatically assume being shot is what killed them.
Gee, those numbers are falling fast!
Moreover many gun related deaths that are accidents can still be charged as involuntary manslaughter it is not as if there is no punishment for certain gun deaths that are the result of accidents assuming that there was negligence on the part of the gun owner.Exactly. Accidents aren't gun violence either. People drown all the time. We should outlaw water.
I know a family who had a member hang himself, should I ask them if they have gotten rid of all ropes since? Killing yourself really isn't that difficult if you are determined.
If you want to talk about real gun violence, maybe you should address the criminal and gang problem, because this is just taking it off topic.
There are punishments for the gun deaths that are not by a person's own hand ( for the most peart there are some gun deaths that are ruled complete accidents that involve no negligence and therefore no charges should be brought, but for the most part everything but suicide ( a mental issue which for the most part our mental health resources are not very good either and justified homicide gun deaths are punished.It's an attitude problem. You're not going to fix it anytime soon. Cranking up the laws to make it harder to get a gun won't stop the vast majority gettjng one if they want one. But...it serves to highlight the fact that gun ownership and attitudes to guns and gun deaths are exceptionally abnormal in the US. Maybe the 70% that have no problem with stricter controls will then become 80%. And then 90%.
Who knows. Apart from stricter laws, I've got no idea what on earth you can do. And the gun lobby (that'll include you) seems to have no interest in solving the problem. The death rate is one you'll accept.
Exactly. Accidents aren't gun violence either. People drown all the time. We should outlaw water.
One of the reasons that I do not own a gun is because I do not want to become a target of thieves. I do know some troubled people and even if they would not rob me who knows what their friends would do. Gun are often stolen and quickly resold for pennies on the dollar. Smart crooks do not want to be caught with one, but there are plenty that are willing that are not so bright in the first place. Drug usage only makes them more desperate.This is truly a fantasy.
Notwithstanding the enormous number of guns in the US, it's a significant minority who own them. So whoever is going to 'rise up' against a government is a small proportion of that already significant minority of those who might think like you.
Less all those who have diametrically opposed political views to you and would likely take up arms against you.
Excluding all those who just own a pistol. Less all those who couldn't hit the side of a barn at ten paces with said pistol.
Excluding all those who own guns and would likely take advantage of the household gun owner being otherwise occupied.
And of course, you have systems and processes in place to organise all this. Oh, you don't?
But you'll have suitable people already picked to lead an insurection. Oh, you don't?
But surely there'd be plans in place for suitable targets and methods for bringing down the government. Oh, there aren't?
But there definitely would have been training available to get this rag tag group of gun owners up to a point where they wouldn't be massacred by very heavily armed professionally trained killers (i.e. the army). No? Nothing?
But at least there been some means of communication between like minded people that couldn't be instantly disabled by switching off the internet? Nope?
But surely some means of triggering an uprising so all insurrectionists act in coordination with each other without falling foul of the Patriot Act? Mmm. Probably not (and as far as I know, the web is being constanty monitored for trigger words and phrases as a means to keep us all safe from terrorist acts. So even discussing this within a Christian forum might well ring a bell in some government basement if terms like 'bomb' or 'insurrection' or 'bring down the government' are used - so here's a warning: you need to be careful what you say in public. Someone might take this fantasy trip seriously).
And where is the command centre for all this? The place where decisions will be made and disseminated to the rebels? There isn't one?
It's a fantasy.
and we do have gun laws and respnsiable gun owners teach gun safety ( and in fact some states have laws that require you take a gun safety course ( and prove your ability to shoot on target before they will issue you a permit to carry or in some cases even hunt.No. You educate people as to the dangers. You teach them water safety. You tell them to have respect for the dangers. You have strict rules and regulations re backyard pools. Or maybe you could not offer any practical suggestions at all but trot out a trite sarcastic comment like 'Maybe we should outlaw water'.
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