I believe "Jesus is God" AND "God is Jesus" because...

[Albion]

I am glad you agree with me that it was the Person Yahweh that spoke to Moses in Exodus chapter 33.

But I expect that your fellow Trinitarians will disagree.

Another attempt to reword what was written, eh?

 

[Yahchristian]

Another attempt to reword what was written, eh?

I asked this question...

Which Person do you think was speaking to Moses in Exodus 33:11?
A) Yahweh
B) God the Father
C) The Son of God
D) The Holy Spirit

I said my answer is A (Yahweh).
You said your answer is also A (Yahweh).

Correct?

So we both chose answer A which says...
Yahweh is the Person who was speaking to Moses.

Whereas I think most Trinitarians will choose Answer C which says...
The Son of God is the Person who was speaking to Moses.

 

[Albion]

Whereas I think most Trinitarians will choose Answer C which says...
The Son of God is the Person who was speaking to Moses.

Not likely. And even if they did, it would only show that they were not familiar with the teachings of their own churches.

 

[Yahchristian]

Not likely. And even if they did, it would only show that they were not familiar with the teachings of their own churches.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church says Yahweh God in its unity is a "substance", not a "person". (Catechism 252)

I disagree, and it sounds like you disagree, but that is the teaching of the Catholic Church.

That is why Trinitarians would normally answer either B, C, or D to the question...

Which Person do you think was speaking to Moses in Exodus 33:11?
A) Yahweh
B) God the Father
C) The Son of God
D) The Holy Spirit

For example, CARM says C (the Son of God).
Whereas I would say A (Yahweh).

 

[Albion]

The Catechism of the Catholic Church says Yahweh God in its unity is a "substance", not a "person". (Catechism 252)

I disagree, and it sounds like you disagree, but that is the teaching of the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church also says that there is one God in three persons, and I gave you the evidence.

 

[ViaCrucis]

FYI: I was Catholic by birth, reared as Catholic by my parents and grand parents, studied at Catholic schools. I know the Trinity does not exists. I even know who invented it.

Going back to my question - I am willing to give you points if its good.

You have a problem - how do you solve that a third of your god died on the cross and two thirds did not.

Or 1 god died on the cross and 2 gods did not.

View attachment 192529

Already answered: I believe "Jesus is God" AND "God is Jesus" because...

I don't "solve that a third of [my] god (sic) died on the cross", because that isn't what I believe.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[MJFlores]

Already answered: I believe "Jesus is God" AND "God is Jesus" because...

I don't "solve that a third of [my] god (sic) died on the cross", because that isn't what I believe.

-CryptoLutheran

One died and the two where alive?

Or a third died and the two did not?

Isn't that strange?

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

However you have a problem - how do you solve that a third of your god died on the cross and two thirds did not.

Or 1 god died on the cross and 2 gods did not.

I hold that all logic is mathematical. If I believe that God is infinite, as everything absolute, such as perfection, omniscience and omnipotence are of an infinite nature, being something that finite objects can only approach but never reach.

3x = ∞
as x approaches infinity

Therefore three infinities equals one infinity.
Therefore one infinity is not a third of infinity, despite the fact that three times infinity equals one infinity.

It may be paradoxical, but it's not illogical. Three of God is the same as one God, but one God is not a third of God, so long as God is of an absolute nature. Therefore, I say that God died on the cross, but God and God did not die on the cross, but it's less confusing to say that Jesus died on the cross, but the Holy Spirit and the Father did not.

...If you don't understand the math, then it stands to reason that you don't understand the theology, either, but that doesn't make it wrong. It just means you never passed that part of your calculus exams.

 

[MJFlores]

I hold that all logic is mathematical. If I believe that God is infinite, as everything absolute, such as perfection, omniscience and omnipotence are of an infinite nature, being something that finite objects can only approach but never reach.

3x = ∞
as x approaches infinity

Therefore three infinities equals one infinity.
Therefore one infinity is not a third of infinity, despite the fact that three times infinity equals one infinity.

It may be paradoxical, but it's not illogical. Three of God is the same as one God, but one God is not a third of God, so long as God is of an absolute nature. Therefore, I say that God died on the cross, but God and God did not die on the cross, but it's less confusing to say that Jesus died on the cross, but the Holy Spirit and the Father did not.

...If you don't understand the math, then it stands to reason that you don't understand the theology, either, but that doesn't make it wrong. It just means you never passed that part of your calculus exams.

So to you - it was only a staged play?
One suffered but did not?
One died but did not?
Why use infinity?
Why not use the bible instead because this is a theological matter, isn't it?

 

[MJFlores]

I think people would need to re-evaluate what they learned from other people (the world) about who God is, who the Lord Jesus Christ is and who the HS is. If it is doctrinal - test it if it is true or not.

Salvation is all about the right knowledge of God and this knowledge is found in the bible.

2 Corinthians 10:4-5 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)

for the weapons of our warfare are not worldly but have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments and every proud obstacle to the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,

The truth is not in man made dogma. The truth is in the bible.

 

[Yahchristian]

The Catholic Church also says that there is one God in three persons, and I gave you the evidence.

The Catholic Church also says "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day." (Catechism 841)

Since the Catholic Church said it, does that mean you believe it too?

I do not.

 

[Albion]

The Catholic Church also says "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day." (Catechism 841)

Since the Catholic Church said it, does that mean you believe it too?

I do not.

I corrected a misrepresentation of the Catholic Church's position concerning the nature of God, that's all.

 

[Yahchristian]

I corrected a misrepresentation of the Catholic Church's position concerning the nature of God, that's all.

I did not misrepresent the Catholic Church's position concerning the nature of God.
The Catholic Church believes God in its unity is a "substance", and there are three "persons" of that "substance".

Here is the complete text of catechism 252...
The Church uses (I) the term "substance" (rendered also at times by "essence" or "nature") to designate the divine being in its unity, (II) the term "person" or "hypostasis" to designate the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the real distinction among them, and (III) the term "relation" to designate the fact that their distinction lies in the relationship of each to the others.

So whereas the Catholic Church believes Yahweh (God in its unity) is a "substance".
I believe Yahweh (God in its unity) is a "person".
There are hundreds of times Yahweh speaks in the Bible.
And a "person" speaks, a "substance" does not.

 

[MJFlores]

Quite confusing.
To make things simpler - Dogmas are man made teachings.

What does the bible teaches?

Absolute oneness of God the Father
the Creator alone is the true God
John 17:1,3
1 Cor 8.6

Jesus Christ, the Son of God
God made Him Lord and Savior.
He is the only Mediator of man to God
Jesus Christ is holy and a very special man but not God
Matt 3:17
Acts 2:36
Acts 5:31
1 Tim 2:5
John 10:36
John 8:40
Acts 2:22

Jesus Christ is not a demigod
Jesus Christ is not truly God but he is truly human
The only true God is the Father and the Father sent his Son, Jesus Christ.

 

[Albion]

Jesus Christ is not truly God but he is truly human
The only true God is the Father and the Father sent his Son, Jesus Christ.

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