I believe "Jesus is God" AND "God is Jesus" because...

[Yahchristian]

I believe "Jesus is God" AND "God is Jesus" because...

If you define "is" as "selfsame", then "Jesus is God" and "God is Jesus" would both be True, since "Jesus" and "God" are the same "thing".

And if you define "is" as "homegeneous", then "Jesus is God" and "God is Jesus" would both be True, since "Jesus" and "God" have the same "nature".

But what is the Trinitarian definition of "is" such that "Jesus is God" is True, but "God is Jesus" is False?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Jesus is God, because the Son is homoousios with the Father.

It would likely be inaccurate to say "God is Jesus" because it conflates the Divine Essence of the three Hypostases with the Hypostases of the Son. But it would probably largely depend on how one meant it; if one is merely affirming the Deity of the Son, no problem; if one is attempting to suggest that the Son alone is God, or that Jesus is the Father (and the Spirit, etc) then such is clearly and emphatically in error and expressly heretical.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[-57]

I believe "Jesus is God" AND "God is Jesus" because...

If you define "is" as "selfsame", then "Jesus is God" and "God is Jesus" would both be True, since "Jesus" and "God" are the same "thing".

And if you define "is" as "homegeneous", then "Jesus is God" and "God is Jesus" would both be True, since "Jesus" and "God" have the same "nature".

But what is the Trinitarian definition of "is" such that "Jesus is God" is True, but "God is Jesus" is False?

 

[98cwitr]

Nicene Creed (please keep in mind that this is the CF statement of faith):

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father [the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God,] Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;

To add: Consubstantiality - Wikipedia

 

[-57]

This works....John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning...then...14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us...

 

[Yahchristian]

Jesus is God, because the Son is homoousios with the Father.

It would likely be inaccurate to say "God is Jesus" because it conflates the Divine Essence of the three Hypostases with the Hypostases of the Son. But it would probably largely depend on how one meant it; if one is merely affirming the Deity of the Son, no problem; if one is attempting to suggest that the Son alone is God, or that Jesus is the Father (and the Spirit, etc) then such is clearly and emphatically in error and expressly heretical.

-CryptoLutheran

You didn't answer the question...

But what is the Trinitarian definition of "is" such that "Jesus is God" is True, but "God is Jesus" is False?

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

I just remember the lyrics "Three in one, Holy One".

 

[Yahchristian]

I just remember the lyrics "Three in one, Holy One".

Are you able to answer the question...

It would seem that if you define "is" as "homogeneous"...
Then "Jesus is God" because Jesus has the same nature as God.
And "God is Jesus" because God has the same nature as Jesus.

But Trinitarians do not believe "God is Jesus". So...

What is the Trinitarian definition of "is" such that "Jesus is God" is True, but "God is Jesus" is False?

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Are you able to answer the question...

It would seem that if you define "is" as "homogeneous"...
Then "Jesus is God" because Jesus has the same nature as God.
And "God is Jesus" because God has the same nature as Jesus.

But Trinitarians do not believe "God is Jesus". So...

What is the Trinitarian definition of "is" such that "Jesus is God" is True, but "God is Jesus" is False?

Honestly since I have a brain injury I've always been a bit confused by it all. So for example God is God. And Jesus is His Son who was sent here....etc. But Jesus is also technically God to some degree since it says Jesus was sent to know what our world was like (again keeping it brief). Though when we get to heaven Jesus is a separate person from God. Hence Father and Son. And the Holy Spirit is also another part that is separate but also part of God. So sort of like diagram -57 showed above.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

I believe "Jesus is God" AND "God is Jesus" because...

If you define "is" as "selfsame", then "Jesus is God" and "God is Jesus" would both be True, since "Jesus" and "God" are the same "thing".

And if you define "is" as "homegeneous", then "Jesus is God" and "God is Jesus" would both be True, since "Jesus" and "God" have the same "nature".

But what is the Trinitarian definition of "is" such that "Jesus is God" is True, but "God is Jesus" is False?

Not sure if this was the correct spot to post this if this is pushing oneness. I believe in oneness but yeah is this the right spot for it?

 

[SAAN]

God is the Father
God sent his son Jesus
God sent his Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost


Jesus is not the Holy Spirit and Holy Spirit is not the son, The Holy Spirit is not the father. They are separate.

Jesus was sent by the father, prayed to the father, is at the right hand of the father, said he was here to do his fathers will, and cried out to the father on the cross.

 

[4x4toy]

My take on Jesus is that though he was God , he was also man .. IMO He was not born all seeing all knowing .. Jesus learned who he was , he learned carpentry as a man but also learned from mistakes anyone would .. IMO Jesus also learned who he was through scripture and perfect understanding with no hindrance of sin and by age 12 he had already recognized who his Father was .. Matthew 4:1-11 by this time Jesus had full understanding with confidence .. That makes Jesus even greater in my eyes that he had to access the Father through prayer and fasting as a man but also he was perfect and sinless to hear from His Father perfectly in all things .. The prayers of a righteous man are powerful and effective .. If we commune with God through the Spirit , if we travail in prayer living in a state of repentance with fasting on occasion we prepare ourselves for whatever we encounter .. Jesus is awesome both as Jew and God .. The Word become flesh and won it all for us .. .. The Alpha and Omega praise God ..

 

[~Anastasia~]

I believe "Jesus is God" AND "God is Jesus" because...

If you define "is" as "selfsame", then "Jesus is God" and "God is Jesus" would both be True, since "Jesus" and "God" are the same "thing".

And if you define "is" as "homegeneous", then "Jesus is God" and "God is Jesus" would both be True, since "Jesus" and "God" have the same "nature".

But what is the Trinitarian definition of "is" such that "Jesus is God" is True, but "God is Jesus" is False?

Jesus is God.

But the reason we don't say "God is Jesus" is because some might take that to deny that God the Father is God, or to deny that the Holy Spirit is God, because Jesus is NOT God the Father or the Holy Spirit.

We don't say "the Godhead is Jesus" because it's not.

But Jesus IS God, His Essence is divinity, He is uncreated.

I won't go on so as not to confuse, but I hope that helps.

 

[Yahchristian]

God is the Father

God is the Father.

We both say True.


God is Jesus.

I say True.

What do you say?

 

[Yahchristian]

We don't say "the Godhead is Jesus" because it's not.

That is a big difference between my view and the classic Trinitarian view...

I believe God is "a who", whereas Trinitarians believe God is "a what".

So I would not refer to God as "it", whereas Trinitarians would.

 

[AJTruth]

I believe "Jesus is God" AND "God is Jesus" because...

If you define "is" as "selfsame", then "Jesus is God" and "God is Jesus" would both be True, since "Jesus" and "God" are the same "thing".

And if you define "is" as "homegeneous", then "Jesus is God" and "God is Jesus" would both be True, since "Jesus" and "God" have the same "nature".

But what is the Trinitarian definition of "is" such that "Jesus is God" is True, but "God is Jesus" is False?

Hello Yahchristian,
1st, you would need to define Trinitarian. The term isn't found is scripture. The term Godhead is used a few times.

The closest crude, finite example I've seen is:

An old chemistry lesson:
Plain water, when placed in a vacuum under gas pressure of 230 millimeters & at a temperature of 0 degrees Centigrade.

Will solidify it into ice at the bottom of the container, the liquid will remain in the center and at the top it vaporizes! At a given moment the same water is both solid, liquid & gas, yet all 3 are manifestations of the same base substance H2O - hydrogen/two parts - oxygen/one part

The solid is not the liquid; the liquid is not the gas; and yet all 3 are of one nature: H2O.

And so, it is with the Father, the Son & the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the Son, the Father is not the Holy Spirit, & Jesus is not the Holy Spirit. Yet, they all three are one substance.

 

[Yahchristian]

1st, you would need to define Trinitarian.

Someone who agrees with the Athanasian Creed.

"And the Catholic Faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity..."

Plain water, when placed in a vacuum under gas pressure of 230 millimeters & at a temperature of 0 degrees Centigrade.

Will solidify it into ice at the bottom of the container, the liquid will remain in the center and at the top it vaporizes! At a given moment the same water is both solid, liquid & gas, yet all 3 are manifestations of the same base substance H2O - hydrogen/two parts - oxygen/one part

The solid is not the liquid; the liquid is not the gas; and yet all 3 are of one nature: H2O.

That is an example of Modalism.

As the famous Trinitarian William Lane Craig points out, Cerberus the three-headed dog is a better example of the doctrine of the Trinity.

 

[pescador]

I believe "Jesus is God" AND "God is Jesus" because...

If you define "is" as "selfsame", then "Jesus is God" and "God is Jesus" would both be True, since "Jesus" and "God" are the same "thing".

And if you define "is" as "homegeneous", then "Jesus is God" and "God is Jesus" would both be True, since "Jesus" and "God" have the same "nature".

But what is the Trinitarian definition of "is" such that "Jesus is God" is True, but "God is Jesus" is False?

Aside from the semantics used to define God...

There are three aspects of God, and they can't be defined in terms of the limitations used to define humans. God is the father, Jesus is the son, and the Holy Spirit is, well, the spirit.

Even though I am vigorously opposed to Donald Trump I will use the US government as an example. If the President sends the Secretary of State abroad, s/he fully represents the US. When Jesus became a human being he fully represented his father -- "I can do nothing apart from the Father". He was not equal to his father, but was his son who fully represented him on earth. 1 Corinthians explains it best, "Then comes the end, when he [Jesus] hands over the kingdom to God the Father, when he has brought to an end all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be eliminated is death... And when all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will be subjected to the one who subjected everything to him, so that God may be all in all." Clearly they are two separate people, with the father having authority over his son. (This was normal in biblical times. It was unthinkable for a son to be equal to his father.)

Now when Jesus was resurrected did that leave humans without a divine presence? No. People were given the Holy Spirit, God's spirit, to live in them. God didn't just send Jesus and that was that. Continuing the analogy, when the Secretary of State signs a treaty and leaves, the treaty -- the presence of the United States -- remains in effect and there is an ambassador to represent the country. Christians are one with Christ; we are his presence on earth. Even though Jesus, God's representative, isn't present, we have been given his spirit; we are God's ambassadors on earth. We represent his kingdom.

I have not been able to come up with a better analogy to explain God the father, Jesus the son, and the Holy Spirit. They are all different, yet they are all one. They have different roles and authority, but together they are God.

 

[~Anastasia~]

That is a big difference between my view and the classic Trinitarian view...

I believe God is "a who", whereas Trinitarians believe God is "a what".

So I would not refer to God as "it", whereas Trinitarians would.

I agree that "it" is problematic, but in English we don't have a better way to express what I said, or at least I could not think of one. For my lack of ability, I apologize.

If you'd like to address what I said, because I was trying to help you understand and answer your question, please do. If not, then that's ok too.

 

[~Anastasia~]

That is a big difference between my view and the classic Trinitarian view...

I believe God is "a who", whereas Trinitarians believe God is "a what".

So I would not refer to God as "it", whereas Trinitarians would.

By the way .... the problem with what you say is that God the Father is a Who. God the Son is a Who. God the Holy Spirit is a Who. They are all God. There is only ONE God. But God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are all distinct from one another.

That is the Trinitarian view. Which part do you disagree with? Or do you agree? If you wish to discuss.