I am stuck thinking I need to prove faith to Evolutionists, when the Bible says "they're deluded"

[Gottservant]

I've got it!

Every time the right conditions are there, something emerges from ape-kind, that is different every time - to a point!

We are humans, but what comes from apes next - will be entertainingly different to both!

 

[The Barbarian]

What about the idea that the selection pressure for ape to man, has now either: subsided or changed?

What do you think the selective pressure is/was? Why would it change?

 

[Gottservant]

What do you think the selective pressure is/was? Why would it change?

Well, the brain facilitated reflection (initially)? But how much do you need to reflect?

Future transitions from ape, will be more brain specific? Industrious, curious, focussed (brains)?

Apes on their own, would not differentiate (no pressure), but now with mankind feeding them, they will reciprocate?

 

[The Barbarian]

Well, the brain facilitated reflection (initially)? But how much do you need to reflect?

The evidence shows (as evolutionary theory predicted) that bipedal human-like bodies evolved before human-like faces and brains. So no.

 

[Gottservant]

The evidence shows (as evolutionary theory predicted) that bipedal human-like bodies evolved before human-like faces and brains. So no.

I guess that is why I find it so difficult talking with Evolutionists: in no way does a prior human-like body preclude a greater manifestation of brain - your saying so is wilful misdirection at worst, wilful ignorance at best. All it requires is the right alleles, isn't that what you say?

I'm not saying you are not capable of direction, or knowledge, I'm saying your carefree attitude to the implications of your theory, make your brain a feeding ground for that kind of flaw.

And indeed I am not saying your attitude is "wrong", just that it is far more limited in field than an honest confession of one kind or another - that you are not the man you would hope to be, for example - would serve you well by.

I am not the man I want to be, I am not afraid to say it - Christianity may be a crutch, but it is far worse to sit in the mud, and hope something will emerge on your behalf!

 

[The Barbarian]

I guess that is why I find it so difficult talking with Evolutionists: in no way does a prior human-like body preclude a greater manifestation of brain

It's just a fact. Late Australopithecines were fully bipedal, had human-like hands not ape-like ones, and early humans had post-cranial bodies almost identical to ours, while still having rather ape-like faces, and very small brains. You denying it is wilful misdirection at worst, wilful ignorance at best.

All it requires is the right alleles, isn't that what you say?

All what requires?

I'm not saying you are not capable of direction, or knowledge, I'm saying your carefree attitude to the implications of your theory, make your brain a feeding ground for that kind of flaw.

I'm just looking at what is. If your reasoning is based on things that are not true, nothing good will come of it. Learn to accept what is, and then you might be able to find the truth.

 

[Gottservant]

It's just a fact. Late Australopithecines were fully bipedal, had human-like hands not ape-like ones, and early humans had post-cranial bodies almost identical to ours, while still having rather ape-like faces, and very small brains. You denying it is wilful misdirection at worst, wilful ignorance at best.

Whatever they were, they now have an Evolutionary niche to provide us with better brains.

Why is that so complicated?

All what requires?

The conversion of the selection pressure, to a real world - Evolutionary? - outcome (smarter brains).

I'm just looking at what is. If your reasoning is based on things that are not true, nothing good will come of it. Learn to accept what is, and then you might be able to find the truth.

You think you can run a gauntlet of facts and emerge a winner of cultural trinkets, but you neglect diligence, exchange and repressure, as you should not have, in the meantime.

The truth is only the truth, because everyone sees it differently.

All you seem to be doing is saying "I will wear difference for a fancy; nude ambition will be our grace".

 

[The Barbarian]

It's just a fact. Late Australopithecines were fully bipedal, had human-like hands not ape-like ones, and early humans had post-cranial bodies almost identical to ours, while still having rather ape-like faces, and very small brains. You denying it is wilful misdirection at worst, wilful ignorance at best.

Whatever they were, they now have an Evolutionary niche to provide us with better brains.

So you're no longer insisting that brains had to come first? We're making progress, sort of.

Why is that so complicated?

Creationism has a lot of myths. So it's difficult for someone indoctrinated in that belief to accommodate real data.

The conversion of the selection pressure, to a real world - Evolutionary? - outcome (smarter brains).

We observe this in nature. Would you like some examples?

I'm just looking at what is. If your reasoning is based on things that are not true, nothing good will come of it. Learn to accept what is, and then you might be able to find the truth.

You think you can run a gauntlet of facts and emerge a winner of cultural trinkets

That's what this is really about for you, isn't it?

It's not actually about diligence or cultural victories.

"I will wear difference for a fancy; nude ambition will be our grace".

Sometimes, it seems like there's a debate going on inside your head, and we only see snippets of the proceedings.

 

[Gottservant]

It's just a fact. Late Australopithecines were fully bipedal, had human-like hands not ape-like ones, and early humans had post-cranial bodies almost identical to ours, while still having rather ape-like faces, and very small brains. You denying it is wilful misdirection at worst, wilful ignorance at best.

That's just not my question at all.

So you're no longer insisting that brains had to come first? We're making progress, sort of.

I'm saying whatever the species was, there is now a selection pressure for smarter brains.

You're saying the channel to apes is open, I'm saying "if it's open, show me something logical"

 

[The Barbarian]

You're saying the channel to apes is open, I'm saying "if it's open, show me something logical"

Could you redo that in English?

 

[Gottservant]

Could you redo that in English?

What is the choice, that apes offer to humans...?

"There is no choice" is not an answer, all DNA offers a choice.

 

[The Barbarian]

What is the choice, that apes offer to humans...?

We are apes. We and chimpanzees are most closely related to each other, which the other apes as the outgroup.

Since the appearance of H. sapiens, I don't see much evidence that our particular subspecies is that much smarter, if any, than the others that disappeared. The biggest behavior difference I note was a lack of cultural conservatism. And projectile weapons, which probably is a consequence of the first thing.

The major evolutionary innovations since we were left as the only race remaining, have been physical adaptations to different climates, resistance to some parasites and diseases, high altitude adaptations, and in one group, ability to hyperoxygenate blood for longer diving.

It is possible, as many geneticists think, that Ashkenazi Jews were, as a persecuted minority exposed to high selective pressure for intelligence as well as social reproductive isolation, which is thought to account for the notably higher average intelligence of that human population.

Maybe so. If so, there's a downside to it. Many genetic disorders mostly confined to this population, appear to also enhance intelligence.
https://web.mit.edu/fustflum/documents/papers/AshkenaziIQ.jbiosocsci.pdf

 

[Gottservant]

I've worked out that the faith of Evolutionists is to do with a "resurgence of fact" that has "scientific rigour".

The aim being to be ready for fact to resurge, with a rigour that makes keeping it effective.

I suppose its effectiveness being evaluated by God and Man alike, as having brought them closer together.

If it's more than that, I really don't know what Evolutionists are asking for.

 

[The Barbarian]

I've worked out what the faith of creationists is asking for. We are apes. We and chimpanzees are most closely related to each other, while the others disappeared.

The biggest behavior difference I note was a lack of cultural trinkets, but you assume diligence, exchange and repressure, as you should not have, in the meantime. The truth is only the truth.

I guess that is why I find it so difficult talking with creationists: a prior human-like body only might preclude a greater manifestation of brain - your denying so is wilful misdirection at worst, wilful ignorance at best.

All it requires is the right alleles, isn't that what you say?

No. I'm not saying you are not capable of direction, or knowledge, I'm saying you are not willing to have direction, or knowledge.

 

[Gottservant]

Affronting a delusion is not holy, unless every possibility is given a chance to recommit.

I think Evolution should recommit to Jesus.

What would be the outcome, if they did?

 

[GenemZ]

Man did not evolve from an ape/chimp... though the biological bodies will share similarities physically.

Where man differs from the animals is not with the body construction. It was Man's soul that was the only soul created in God's image as seen in Genesis 1:27.

When we get to the second chapter of Genesis, we see both man and animal had bodies designed in a similar way. Both were molded and formed out from the elements of the earth.

Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name." Gen 2:19​

Bodies similar. Adam's lifeless body was also formed out of the ground! But, the souls? Worlds apart!

So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them."​

The Hebrew word used for "create" is totally different that the Hebrew word used to "mold and form" the bodies.

The human soul was created "out from nothing." The bodies were made out from something already having been created (earth).

Evolutionists only work with the physical body attributes. They are ignorant of what the Scriptures is telling us, and missing a huge part of the puzzle concerning what makes man different than the ape/chimp.

That huge difference is man's soul. Not so much the body. Animal souls are generic in effect, and are run by hard wired instincts. That is why God allows man to kill and eat animals. For their souls are temporal. Man's soul was designed to be everlasting.

grace and peace ...........

 

[loveofourlord]

Man did not evolve from an ape/chimp... though the biological bodies will share similarities physically.

Where man differs from the animals is not with the body construction. It was Man's soul that was the only soul created in God's image as seen in Genesis 1:27.

When we get to the second chapter of Genesis, we see both man and animal had bodies designed in a similar way. Both were molded and formed out from the elements of the earth.

Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name." Gen 2:19​

Bodies similar. Adam's lifeless body was also formed out of the ground! But, the souls? Worlds apart!

So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them."​

The Hebrew word used for "create" is totally different that the Hebrew word used to "mold and form" the bodies.

The human soul was created "out from nothing." The bodies were made out from something already having been created (earth).

Evolutionists only work with the physical body attributes. They are ignorant of what the Scriptures is telling us, and missing a huge part of the puzzle concerning what makes man different than the ape/chimp.

That huge difference is man's soul. Not so much the body. Animal souls are generic in effect, and are run by hard wired instincts. That is why God allows man to kill and eat animals. For their souls are temporal. Man's soul was designed to be everlasting.

grace and peace ...........

so called evolutionists are not ignorant of the bible or scripture, were just not ignorant of reality and science and what we can actually see in the real world. We don't stick our heads in the sand and pretend that evolution isn't real because we can't handle the truth, we accept it, as it's that or ignore what god created.

 

[GenemZ]

so called evolutionists are not ignorant of the bible or scripture, were just not ignorant of reality and science and what we can actually see in the real world. We don't stick our heads in the sand and pretend that evolution isn't real because we can't handle the truth, we accept it, as it's that or ignore what god created.

Secular science is ignorant of the essential details that we will not find in English translations. They have only a dull awareness at best. And, too many Christians are sitting on the other end of that boat.

Man has a soul created in God's image (not the body) that makes him superior to the animals. Not through evolution. Right from the beginning.

Secular science can suck its thumb for a million years and they will not get milk. And, yes... closed minded Christians can be just as frustrating to reason with.

Its become as the famous Hatfields and the McCoys feud as both sides fight it out with no real solution in sight. Both equally ignorant of what is needed to resolve the problem. Both lack understanding of the Hebrew and Greek which English translations blur and even obfuscate. And, both do not want to learn the facts that defuses their position's stronghold.

 

[loveofourlord]

Secular science is ignorant of the essential details that we will not find in English translations. They have only a dull awareness at best. And, too many Christians are sitting on the other end of that boat.

Man has a soul created in God's image (not the body) that makes him superior to the animals. Not through evolution. Right from the beginning.

Secular science can suck its thumb for a million years and they will not get milk. And, yes... closed minded Christians can be just as frustrating to reason with.

Its become as the famous Hatfields and the McCoys feud as both sides fight it out with no real solution in sight. Both equally ignorant of what is needed to resolve the problem. Both lack understanding of the Hebrew and Greek which English translations blur and even obfuscate. And, both do not want to learn the facts that defuses their position's stronghold.

You call us ignorant, when you don't even understand how evolution works, god made us in his image, the soul, unless your suggesting god has genitals and other body parts. You can keep ignoring the reality of science, but your just going to be dismissed as uneducated in this subject and someone to ignore.

 

[GenemZ]

You call us ignorant, when you don't even understand how evolution works

I do understand how it works... You are now wearing bias blinders as your defense.

You are not dealing with a young earth creationists with me. So, try to put down the talking points you have been inculcated with and maybe learn something that sheds light on why we find prehistoric fossils....