I am a former SDA

[LovebirdsFlying]

Followed the link given at this thread... got here... thanks for the invites. I'm glad to see everyone.

I left the SDA church some years ago. My older daughter can somewhat remember belonging to that church in her early childhood (she's 24 now), but my younger daughter was just a baby and wouldn't remember.

I first remember seeking the Lord and His will when I was around 7 years old. I once heard my mother say to someone on the telephone, about me, "She just digs religion." Yes, in the sense that my mother *meant* to say, that's always been true of me. I enjoy what my mother calls religion, and I call feeling close to the Lord. When my mother made that remark, I had just come back from church, where I'd gone with an aunt. I had loved it, had gone eagerly, and was happy as a clam when I came home.

To this day that aunt is still the closest relative of mine who regularly attends any church. In fact, she still goes to the same one she'd taken me to that time, way back in 1971. But in our house, church attendance was sporadic, pretty much at whim. Although my parents said they believed, they didn't act like it was very important. To them Sunday mornings were for sleeping late, then lounging around in their pajamas drinking coffee, smoking cigarettes, and reading the newspaper. They were not really interested in going to church, but they'd gladly send us, to get us out of the house. Sunday School and VBS were simply free babysitters.

Only with me it "took."

About the time I graduated from high school, I came across a book entitled "The Great Controversy," authored by one Ellen G. White. What she said seemed to make sense, so my then boyfriend and I sought out an SDA congregation.

My first question mark came when baptism and acceptance as a church member required that we first submit to a Bible study. I didn't remember anywhere in the Bible where it said, "Repent, go to a Bible study, and then be baptized." The jailer in Acts 16 was baptized as soon as he heard the word; he didn't have to take a Bible course first. There are other examples, but I was told I was being nitpicky, and these things didn't matter. At this point, believing that SDA was the one true church, all others were counterfeit, and I would not be saved if I was in the wrong church, I simply did as I was told in order to be accepted by the congregation.

Other bells rang later, but this post is getting too long and it is growing too late at night. I look forward to continuing the discussion.

 

[StormyOne]

good to see you, looking forward to reading more of your experience.....

 

[DeanM]

Hi Lovebirds~

Thanks for sharing with us. Interesting stuff!

 

[foofighter]

Hi Lovebirdsflying,

Welcome to CF. Your story, so far, has some similarities to mine, at least as far as your lack of church experience and they way your parents approached religion. Mine were pretty similar.

Don't want to derail your story. What year did you join SDA. For me it was 1976.

Looking forward to hearing more of your story.

Thanks for sharing.

Carol

 

[JonMiller]

\My first question mark came when baptism and acceptance as a church member required that we first submit to a Bible study. I didn't remember anywhere in the Bible where it said, "Repent, go to a Bible study, and then be baptized." The jailer in Acts 16 was baptized as soon as he heard the word; he didn't have to take a Bible course first. There are other examples, but I was told I was being nitpicky, and these things didn't matter. At this point, believing that SDA was the one true church, all others were counterfeit, and I would not be saved if I was in the wrong church, I simply did as I was told in order to be accepted by the congregation.

You addressed two big issues here, which I disagree strongly with some adventists practice on. I am thankful that many adventists (most?) agree with me, and not with the 'traditional' position.

JM
(issues being the SDA church being the one true church, and being baptized into the SDA church instead of into the Christian church)

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

Hello and welcome:

Someone can correct me if they know otherwise but I don't think it is an abnormal practice among denominations to have people go through Bible studies when they express an interest in being Baptised.

True the jailer or the man that Phillip met on the road did not first go to a Bible study as they did not have Bibles and the Old Testament scriptures would not have helped too much. I would assume that both Phillip and Paul would have talked to them about Jesus however which is what the idea of Bible study today encompasses.

Unfortantely many Adventist Bible studies will be more of a study about Adventist understanding rather then general Christianity and there is a danger in that in my view. That is the part where there is no scriptural support. The idea that you have to accept all Adventist views or stop smoking or such things before you can be Baptized is going against the great commission rather then following it. That was common in Adventist of previous generations but today you will find far more Adventist Pastors who do not require acceptance or other conditions before they baptize.

I never have figured out why we have assumed that you have to be baptized by an ordained minister however. Just another tradition I suppose. One church see other churches do it that way and so they follow that example and make it part of their denominational rules.

 

[Telaquapacky]

Hi, Lovebirds!
There is exposive growth of Seventh-day Adventism in the third world. There are many places where members were just preached to and dunked without any consideration of them knowing anything about Christianity, let alone Seventh-day Adventism. This was done to boost the numbers- upon which promotion of evangelists are based. We saw instances of new members who should never have been accepted into the church- for example in Rwanda, where, during the genocide, newly "converted" pastors were preaching Sabbath morning, and then going out to kill Tutsis in the afternoon, or members were asking the pointless question whether it was okay to kill on the Sabbath or not. Certainly it would have been better for someone to make sure they understood something about Jesus before they were baptized or given positions of responsibility.

The SDA church does not consider itself "the true church," but officially teaches that "The True Church" is composed of saved believers in all denominations. Sadly, this does not keep some well-meaning but unbalanced individuals within the church to project their own spiritual elitism upon the denomination as a whole.

 

[Sophia7]

Followed the link given at this thread... got here... thanks for the invites. I'm glad to see everyone.

I left the SDA church some years ago. My older daughter can somewhat remember belonging to that church in her early childhood (she's 24 now), but my younger daughter was just a baby and wouldn't remember.

I first remember seeking the Lord and His will when I was around 7 years old. I once heard my mother say to someone on the telephone, about me, "She just digs religion." Yes, in the sense that my mother *meant* to say, that's always been true of me. I enjoy what my mother calls religion, and I call feeling close to the Lord. When my mother made that remark, I had just come back from church, where I'd gone with an aunt. I had loved it, had gone eagerly, and was happy as a clam when I came home.

To this day that aunt is still the closest relative of mine who regularly attends any church. In fact, she still goes to the same one she'd taken me to that time, way back in 1971. But in our house, church attendance was sporadic, pretty much at whim. Although my parents said they believed, they didn't act like it was very important. To them Sunday mornings were for sleeping late, then lounging around in their pajamas drinking coffee, smoking cigarettes, and reading the newspaper. They were not really interested in going to church, but they'd gladly send us, to get us out of the house. Sunday School and VBS were simply free babysitters.

Only with me it "took."

About the time I graduated from high school, I came across a book entitled "The Great Controversy," authored by one Ellen G. White. What she said seemed to make sense, so my then boyfriend and I sought out an SDA congregation.

My first question mark came when baptism and acceptance as a church member required that we first submit to a Bible study. I didn't remember anywhere in the Bible where it said, "Repent, go to a Bible study, and then be baptized." The jailer in Acts 16 was baptized as soon as he heard the word; he didn't have to take a Bible course first. There are other examples, but I was told I was being nitpicky, and these things didn't matter. At this point, believing that SDA was the one true church, all others were counterfeit, and I would not be saved if I was in the wrong church, I simply did as I was told in order to be accepted by the congregation.

Other bells rang later, but this post is getting too long and it is growing too late at night. I look forward to continuing the discussion.

Welcome.

 

[Sophia7]

The SDA church does not consider itself "the true church," but officially teaches that "The True Church" is composed of saved believers in all denominations. Sadly, this does not keep some well-meaning but unbalanced individuals within the church to project their own spiritual elitism upon the denomination as a whole.

The Adventist belief statements regarding the remnant contradict the claim that the SDA Church doesn't consider itself "the true church":

13. Remnant and Its Mission:
The universal church is composed of all who truly believe in Christ, but in the last days, a time of widespread apostasy, a remnant has been called out to keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. This remnant announces the arrival of the judgment hour, proclaims salvation through Christ, and heralds the approach of His second advent. This proclamation is symbolized by the three angels of Revelation 14; it coincides with the work of judgment in heaven and results in a work of repentance and reform on earth. Every believer is called to have a personal part in this worldwide witness. (Rev. 12:17; 14:6-12; 18:1-4; 2 Cor. 5:10; Jude 3, 14; 1 Peter 1:16-19; 2 Peter 3:10-14; Rev. 21:1-14.)

18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White. As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)​

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

At least in the congregation I attended, the claim was made that the SDA is the "true church." Often various snippets of Revelation were used to support that claim. Revelation 14:12 was very common: "Here is the patience of the saints: Here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus." From this they said that the true church would be Christian but keep the seventh-day Sabbath in obedience to the commandment. Then they would skip to Revelation 19:10, focusing only on the last few words, where the archangel is telling John, "the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." Thus, they reasoned, the one true church would have a prophet at the head of it, which they said was Mrs. White.

As for the nature of the Bible studies, that's my next issue.

But I'm pressed for time right now and can't go into the detail I'd like to go into. One important thing, though--I hope nothing I say starts a big fight. I really hate that. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, interpretations, beliefs, and everything. I don't like debating. I'm just sharing my experience and my reaction to it, and inviting others to do the same.

Peace and love.

 

[Sophia7]

At least in the congregation I attended, the claim was made that the SDA is the "true church." Often various snippets of Revelation were used to support that claim. Revelation 14:12 was very common: "Here is the patience of the saints: Here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus." From this they said that the true church would be Christian but keep the seventh-day Sabbath in obedience to the commandment. Then they would skip to Revelation 19:10, focusing only on the last few words, where the archangel is telling John, "the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." Thus, they reasoned, the one true church would have a prophet at the head of it, which they said was Mrs. White.

Yes, I've heard those sorts of arguments many times, too.

As for the nature of the Bible studies, that's my next issue.

But I'm pressed for time right now and can't go into the detail I'd like to go into. One important thing, though--I hope nothing I say starts a big fight. I really hate that. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, interpretations, beliefs, and everything. I don't like debating. I'm just sharing my experience and my reaction to it, and inviting others to do the same.

Peace and love.

I look forward to hearing more of your story.

 

[Telaquapacky]

The Adventist belief statements regarding the remnant contradict the claim that the SDA Church doesn't consider itself "the true church":

13. Remnant and Its Mission: ​

The universal church is composed of all who truly believe in Christ, but in the last days, a time of widespread apostasy, a remnant has been called out to keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. This remnant announces the arrival of the judgment hour, proclaims salvation through Christ, and heralds the approach of His second advent. This proclamation is symbolized by the three angels of Revelation 14; it coincides with the work of judgment in heaven and results in a work of repentance and reform on earth. Every believer is called to have a personal part in this worldwide witness. (Rev. 12:17; 14:6-12; 18:1-4; 2 Cor. 5:10; Jude 3, 14; 1 Peter 1:16-19; 2 Peter 3:10-14; Rev. 21:1-14.)​

18. The Gift of Prophecy:​

One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White. As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)​

I don't interpret the statements above the same way you do. I believe there is a substantial difference between saying that the church is the "remnant" church and saying it is the "true" church. I don't believe I can explain it to you in a way that would be satisfactory to you.

I also don't interpret the statement about EGW the same way you do. If it were not the prerogative of any individual SDA believer to accept or reject any statement by EGW as the Spirit leads them, it would not end with the words, "...the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested." There are different concepts of what constitutes a prophet.

No one is trying to be sneaky or misleading in the wording of the faith statements above. They deal with issues that are complex and nuanced, and some which depend on events which have not yet happened. It's impossible to come up with phraseology that will satisfy everyone.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

It bes enjoying learning about your experience Lovebirds.
It won't write a lot here so as not to derail things. Looking forward to hearing more from you.

 

[Telaquapacky]

It bes enjoying learning about your experience Lovebirds.
It won't write a lot here so as not to derail things. Looking forward to hearing more from you.

I feel the same way. I suspect that the people who most need to hear what you say will not listen. But we are listening. And please forgive me for butting in- old habits are hard to break. I won't say anything more to derail your story either (I hear you, Moriah).

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

If it were not the prerogative of any individual SDA believer to accept or reject any statement by EGW as the Spirit leads them....

...which leads directly to those Bible studies, and the attitudes of the church I was a member of from 1983-1990.

One of the first things the Bible teacher said to me was, and I quote directly, "We know she (Mrs. White) was inspired, so we don't question what she says." Many members of the congregation, in services, in Sabbath School, and in subsequent Bible studies, made it plain that taking Mrs. White at her word was equal to believing the Bible, and rejecting one was the same as rejecting the other. Repeated comments were made that, "You can tell someone is in danger of leaving the truth..." (their words) "...when they start questioning what Mrs. White says." Looking back, I realize that Mrs. White and her writings were quoted far more often than the Bible, except when the Bible was used to "prove" that she was right.

Where does it say in the Bible that Enoch, after his translation, visited "the ringed planet"? Now, in all fairness, the quoted text from Mrs. White's Early Writings doesn't say anything about rings, but I was told she meant Saturn. The quote follows:

Then I was taken to a world which had seven moons. There I saw good old Enoch, who had been translated. On his right arm he bore a glorious palm, and on each leaf was written "Victory." Around his head was a dazzling white wreath, and leaves on the wreath, and in the middle of each leaf was written "Purity," and around the wreath were stones of various colors, that shone brighter than the stars, and cast a reflection upon the letters and magnified them. On the back part of his head was a bow that confined the wreath, and upon the bow was written "Holiness." Above the wreath was a lovely crown that shone brighter than the sun. I asked him if this was the place he was taken to from the earth. He said, "It is not; the city is my home, and I have come to visit this place." He moved about the place as if perfectly at home.

In fact the Bible doesn't say "boo" about what happened to Enoch after his translation, but it was on this question that I was told in no uncertain terms, "We don't question what she says."

I know now that this is adding to the Bible, as expressly forbidden in Deuteronomy 4:2,

Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you.

and Revelation 22:18,

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.

The argument that the Revelation verse refers only adding to the book of Revelation has been made, but God said the same thing in Deuteronomy, and Jesus had something to say on the same subject in Mark 7:7-8,

They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.' You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."

Then there was the pledge I had to sign, in order to be baptized, that I would never use tobacco or alcohol in any form. Many don't even use cooking spray, which has alcohol in it as a propellant. Also forbidden is vinegar, which is made by a process of fermentation. I was to swear off dancing, going to movies, checkers and chess, and card playing. In fact, from Mrs. White's pamphlet "Recreation," (source: complete published Ellen G. White writings, link here.)

There are amusements, such as dancing, card-playing, chess, checkers, etc., which we cannot approve, because Heaven condemns them. These amusements open the door for great evil.

Our church met regularly in each other's homes to play Uno, but playing Crazy Eights, the same game on a standard deck, is evil because it uses a standard deck. When I wondered about having to have a full Bible study before being eligible for baptism, I was being nitpicky. Being careful about what particular cards you play with, isn't being nitpicky. Whatever.

As for going to movie theaters, places where alcohol is served, etc., there was the doctrine (I'll look it up; I'm bookmarking the search page) that if you even set foot in places like that, you're off God's territory and He won't protect you from anything that might happen. Then explain Psalms 129:8, in the King James because that's what they usually quoted,

If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

Oh, I guess this is enough for now. I invite thorough discussion here, even disagreement. Just please, don't anyone fight.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

I feel the same way. I suspect that the people who most need to hear what you say will not listen. But we are listening. And please forgive me for butting in- old habits are hard to break. I won't say anything more to derail your story either (I hear you, Moriah).

PS. You're fine, Tel. I want to hear everyone's pov on my experience, which I can only dish out a little at a time. No harm done, no hard feelings, and I'm listening to you as well.

 

[Sophia7]

Then there was the pledge I had to sign, in order to be baptized, that I would never use tobacco or alcohol in any form. Many don't even use cooking spray, which has alcohol in it as a propellant. Also forbidden is vinegar, which is made by a process of fermentation. I was to swear off dancing, going to movies, checkers and chess, and card playing. In fact, from Mrs. White's pamphlet "Recreation," (source: complete published Ellen G. White writings, link here.)



Our church met regularly in each other's homes to play Uno, but playing Crazy Eights, the same game on a standard deck, is evil because it uses a standard deck. When I wondered about having to have a full Bible study before being eligible for baptism, I was being nitpicky. Being careful about what particular cards you play with, isn't being nitpicky. Whatever.

As for going to movie theaters, places where alcohol is served, etc., there was the doctrine (I'll look it up; I'm bookmarking the search page) that if you even set foot in places like that, you're off God's territory and He won't protect you from anything that might happen. Then explain Psalms 129:8, in the King James because that's what they usually quoted,


Oh, I guess this is enough for now. I invite thorough discussion here, even disagreement. Just please, don't anyone fight.

That's interesting. I grew up in the Adventist Church, so I heard those kinds of things my whole life, but I considered them really extreme views because only some Adventists in my experience were that strict. I wasn't raised in a very conservative Adventist environment on a lot of things. My parents didn't pay a whole lot of attention to EGW's writings, so they didn't care if we went to movies or played card games (with real cards) or wore jewelry or whatever. We also ate meat. However, I knew a lot of Adventists who believed that if you went into a movie theater, your guardian angel had to wait outside and other ridiculous stuff such as you have described.

Later, when my husband was a pastor, we had some members in one of our churches who were very strict in following EGW's writings, not eating dairy products, not drinking water with meals, not using vinegar or black pepper or baking soda, not reading fiction, avoiding all medications, etc. They were more extreme than any other Adventists that I'd ever known. It caused me to really struggle with how to view EGW because I thought that if I took everything she wrote as authoritative, Christianity would be a miserable experience. It wasn't until I started seeing the problems with the IJ doctrine that I realized that I had to resolve my view of EGW as well. I disagreed with a lot of the Adventist lifestyle teachings, but I had kind of pushed them to the back of my mind and ignored them as minor issues until then.

 

[JonMiller]

A lot more than just adventists are against dairy, although the adventists I have heard are the ones who sometimes seem to present it as a spiritual issue and not just a health issue (or sensationalize the health issue (of course, adventists ignore the animal rights issue, traditionally)).

I didn't go to movies as a kid, but even in highschool/college, I rarely went. And I don't go that often now... it is too expensive. Also, we weren't allowed caffeine for along time.

I think my parents were stricter when I was very young, though. After their divorce (and before it) things became not very strict at all (Which makes sense considering what was going on). I am likely the only one that goes to church more than 10 times a year (maybe even the only one who goes to church more than 2 times a year) now though.

I have no issue with saying that EGW isn't authoritative and made mistakes/etc, and still thinking that she was a prophet. I have a very lose view of what a prophet is, and think that there are many alive right now (in many different denominations).

JM

 

[Sophia7]

A lot more than just adventists are against dairy, although the adventists I have heard are the ones who sometimes seem to present it as a spiritual issue and not just a health issue (or sensationalize the health issue (of course, adventists ignore the animal rights issue, traditionally)).

I agree, and I've avoided dairy myself at times, for health reasons, not because of EGW. It's the spiritual implications that many Traditional Adventists attach to the "health message" that I object to.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

you think that bes rough Sophia try having a "gnostic download" of the basis and oeuvre of something very similar to SDA lifestyle teachings commingled with eschatological revelations and the theme of the Great Controversy, as the vision which accompanies your born-again experience and THEN getting those lines colored inside of by the SDAs. Talk about a mindjob.

All that "lifestyle" stuff bes predicated on taking to finite extremes the notion that everything must of necessity be "of God" or "of Satan." Let's pick on fiction since you mentioned it. Since fiction only gratifies the self, provides escapism which does nothing to minister to "this dying world around us", and frequently features themes which arouse the sin nature (lust, envy, desire for revenge, fantasy, dissatisfaction with the real world, etc.) it must, therefore, be "of Satan" because no way does any of that serve God (so the story goes anyway). (Pun intended.)