Hypothetical question re: proportionality

[Richard T]

To answer your question directly, it is a no. In fact, it makes little sense to compare arrests of local cities with the percentage of population by race in all of America. Instead, I would suggest that the arrests by race, would mirror the populations of local communities and if looking at it this way, then I would expect the arrests to be similar based on racial proportions. Thus, cities with few blacks would see far less black arrests than cities where blacks had a majority.

I looked at one city, Kansas City, Missouri. https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article243276576.html Ignoring the 15 arrests of unknown race, they had 124 white, and 91 black arrests. Kansas City, Missouri racial demographic is 56% white (versus 58% of the arrests) and 28% black (versus 42% of the arrests) Kansas City | BlackDemographics.com Given that the arrests were closest to predominately black neighborhoods, I would have to conclude that the arrests were about equal in this one example. There would be other factors that might inflate the number of arrests by one race or another. This factor would be whether there are groups operating at these rallies or not. White anarchist participation for instance would raise the total arrests for whites in those areas where they exist in large numbers. Such factions would make data gathering and conclusions much more difficult, though not impossible.
Another interesting question to me anyway, is where arrests did not occur. Areas that are mostly white, or mostly Hispanic seem to have fewer arrests. I tested this by looking at Billings, MT and Laredo, TX. I could find no arrests, though there were protests.

 

[Hammster]

That’s really the point of this. When the #BLM-types talks stats, it’s almost always raw numbers. I had a long discussion last week with a BLM supporter. All he would say is that blacks were killed by cops at a disproportionate rate compared to the population. But I could never get him to look at why. The why was largely irrelevant. So if all we did was look at these raw numbers, it would make it look like the cops arrested looters and rioters at a disproportionate rate, which would support the systemic racism argument.

And I think they know that the numbers don’t tell the whole story. And my anecdotal evidence is that this thread has gotten quite a few views, but the participation by those on the left has been minimal, and the responses have not actually addressed the OP. There’s just nothing to spin.

 

[Richard T]

T

That’s really the point of this. When the #BLM-types talks stats, it’s almost always raw numbers. I had a long discussion last week with a BLM supporter. All he would say is that blacks were killed by cops at a disproportionate rate compared to the population. But I could never get him to look at why. The why was largely irrelevant. So if all we did was look at these raw numbers, it would make it look like the cops arrested looters and rioters at a disproportionate rate, which would support the systemic racism argument.

And I think they know that the numbers don’t tell the whole story. And my anecdotal evidence is that this thread has gotten quite a few views, but the participation by those on the left has been minimal, and the responses have not actually addressed the OP. There’s just nothing to spin.

The Wall Street Journal did an editorial on whether racial bias really existed in police killings about a week. They concluded it did not. Folks, the police do make mistakes. Some are poorly trained and others perhaps just do not care. It can be a racially motivated, but mostly cops do not like their authority challenged by anyone. So if you zig when they say zag, you might have trouble. Policing is too confrontational so hopefully we can see some good come out of this.

 

[JacksBratt]

Let’s say that the police were able to arrests every single rioter and looter over the past couple of weeks. Would the ethnic percentages of the arrestees mirror the ethnic percentages of the US?

I'm going to take a shot and say that 100% all the looters being arrested would be suspect of breaking laws like looting, vandalism and rioting and such.

Why do you want to go categorizing them by their ethnicity?

 

[Hammster]

I'm going to take a shot and say that 100% all the looters being arrested would be suspect of breaking laws like looting, vandalism and rioting and such.

Why do you want to go categorizing them by their ethnicity?

If you don’t want to address the OP, then you are free to post elsewhere.

 

[JacksBratt]

If you don’t want to address the OP, then you are free to post elsewhere.

I did address the OP..

My answer was that 100% would be looters...

Your OP is flawed... It is too narrow.

In my opinion it is a post that perpetuates judgement based on race.

Someone else also addressed it... it would totally depend on the neighborhood. You cannot paint with that wide of a brush in the US...

 

[Hammster]

I did address the OP..

My answer was that 100% would be looters...

Your OP is flawed... It is too narrow.

In my opinion it is a post that perpetuates judgement based on race.

Someone else also addressed it... it would totally depend on the neighborhood. You cannot paint with that wide of a brush in the US...

The OP isn’t flawed. And you just gave the reason. We cannot paint with that broad of a brush, yet when it comes to the statistics of death by cops, that’s exactly what happens. We are expected to believe that because a higher percentage of black are killed relative to the percentage of blacks in America, this indicates a disparity proving racism in policing.

That cannot be proven by pure stats.

 

[essentialsaltes]

That’s really the point of this. When the #BLM-types talks stats, it’s almost always raw numbers. I had a long discussion last week with a BLM supporter. All he would say is that blacks were killed by cops at a disproportionate rate compared to the population. But I could never get him to look at why.

Riots and looting precipitated by the unjustified police killing of a black man does not equate with all crime everywhere in the US for the past umpteen years. So this fairly unique event can't be used to wave away the disproportionate deaths of black people at the hands of police.

 

[essentialsaltes]

That’s really the point of this. When the #BLM-types talks stats, it’s almost always raw numbers.

Actually, raw numbers are more the tactic of the anti-BLM side, as in johnboy53's thread.

Statistics reveal police shoot and kill twice as many white suspects as African American suspects

While the mainstream media has promoted the idea of racist police unjustly targeting black people, official crime statistics revealed that's nothing more than a myth.

 

[JacksBratt]

The OP isn’t flawed. And you just gave the reason. We cannot paint with that broad of a brush, yet when it comes to the statistics of death by cops, that’s exactly what happens. We are expected to believe that because a higher percentage of black are killed relative to the percentage of blacks in America, this indicates a disparity proving racism in policing.

That cannot be proven by pure stats.

I got these sites... Shows some stats.


People shot to death by U.S. police, by race 2020 | Statista

New Study Says White Police Officers Are Not More Likely To Shoot Minority Suspects


Problem is... unfortunately, more blacks are killing blacks and also unfortunately a good statistician can make numbers say all that they want.

However, you're question is too vague and really answers or proves nothing.

 

[JacksBratt]

.

 

[Hammster]

Riots and looting precipitated by the unjustified police killing of a black man does not equate with all crime everywhere in the US for the past umpteen years. So this fairly unique event can't be used to wave away the disproportionate deaths of black people at the hands of police.

Crime is crime. Don’t excuse it.

 

[JacksBratt]

T

The Wall Street Journal did an editorial on whether racial bias really existed in police killings about a week. They concluded it did not. Folks, the police do make mistakes. Some are poorly trained and others perhaps just do not care. It can be a racially motivated, but mostly cops do not like their authority challenged by anyone. So if you zig when they say zag, you might have trouble. Policing is too confrontational so hopefully we can see some good come out of this.

Agreed.

 

[Hammster]

I got these sites... Shows some stats.


People shot to death by U.S. police, by race 2020 | Statista

New Study Says White Police Officers Are Not More Likely To Shoot Minority Suspects


Problem is... unfortunately, more blacks are killing blacks and also unfortunately a good statistician can make numbers say all that they want.

However, you're question is too vague and really answers or proves nothing.

It addresses the fact that you can’t just look at percentages.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Crime is crime. Don’t excuse it.

I'm not excusing anything. Let me try again, since you seem to have missed the point.

The demographics of people rioting over a black man being murdered at the hands of cops is likely to be different from the demographics of other crimes, or the sum of all crimes committed in the US.

So the demographics of current arrests will not tell us anything about whether, overall, the disproportionate killing of blacks at the hands of police is due to disproportionate rates of crime.

 

[Hammster]

I'm not excusing anything. Let me try again, since you seem to have missed the point.

The demographics of people rioting over a black man being murdered at the hands of cops is likely to be different from the demographics of other crimes, or the sum of all crimes committed in the US.

So the demographics of current arrests will not tell us anything about whether, overall, the disproportionate killing of blacks at the hands of police is due to disproportionate rates of crime.

What you just did, though, isn’t what I’ve seen done when crime statistics are brought up by pro-BLM types. You looked at the actual event.

 

[Chesterton]

The demographics of people rioting over a black man being murdered at the hands of cops is likely to be different from the demographics of other crimes, or the sum of all crimes committed in the US.

How and why would the demographics be different?

 

[Gup20]

One of the largest determiners of criminality is fatherlessness. It turns out that regardless of race, the children of single-parent homes have a much higher rate of criminality. The black community has the highest rate of single-parent homes in the country... most estimates put it between 65-75%.

There have been several studies done which show that high rates of incarceration among the black community are due to higher rates of crime commission among the same community, not racial bias.

Take murder, for example. Black males make up 6% of the population, but commit 53% of all murders in the country. While approximately 225 blacks are killed by cops every year, only 9 of those are unarmed blacks, and all 9 of those physically or violently resisted arrest. Because of those 9, blacks feel there is systemic oppression. However, over 6000 blacks are murdered by other blacks each year. There isn't a peep about it in the news, nor do blacks feel oppressed by other blacks. Yet, the media will report that cops killing unarmed black people is a leading cause of black deaths in America!

By the way -- twice as many whites are killed by police every year than blacks... over 500 per year. 19 of those 500 were unarmed.

 

[Hammster]

One of the largest determiners of criminality is fatherlessness. It turns out that regardless of race, the children of single-parent homes have a much higher rate of criminality. The black community has the highest rate of single-parent homes in the country... most estimates put it between 65-75%.

There have been several studies done which show that high rates of incarceration among the black community are due to higher rates of crime commission among the same community, not racial bias.

Take murder, for example. Black males make up 6% of the population, but commit 53% of all murders in the country. While approximately 225 blacks are killed by cops every year, only 9 of those are unarmed blacks, and all 9 of those physically or violently resisted arrest. Because of those 9, blacks feel there is systemic oppression. However, over 6000 blacks are murdered by other blacks each year. There isn't a peep about it in the news, nor do blacks feel oppressed by other blacks. Yet, the media will report that cops killing unarmed black people is a leading cause of black deaths in America!

By the way -- twice as many whites are killed by police every year than blacks... over 500 per year. 19 of those 500 were unarmed.

That’s not what this thread is about.

 

[Gup20]

BTW -- the organization Black Lives Matter is a cultural Marxist organization. If you take a look at their "what we believe" page it says things such as:

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

"We practice empathy. We engage comrades with the intent to learn about and connect with their contexts.

We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise)."​

​

The goal of Marxists (even cultural Marxists) is economic revolution - Communism or socialism. The goal of the cultural Marxist is to fight against the power of the hegemony in order to replace the oppressive capitalist system with a fairer, Marxist system. Therefore, the hegemony indicated are the structures and institutions which prevented the Marxist revolution from taking hold in America... the Christian church, the nuclear family, straight, white, males.