Hypothetical for Scientists

[us38]

Did it ever occur to you that God cleaned it up?

Sure, but that would make god deceitful.

 

[AV1611VET]

Sure, but that would make god deceitful.

Not if He left us a note detailing what He did.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes. But then your God would be a deceiver, and you couldn't trust anything you believe this God did or said.

Do you see a correlation, Chalnoth, in God constantly being called a "deceiver" and this verse, about His Son?
[bible]Matthew 27:63[/bible]

To the trained eye, the source can be pinpointed.

 

[Chalnoth]

Not if He left us a note detailing what He did.

One that is inseparable from human myth? Sorry, still deceitful.

 

[us38]

Not if He left us a note detailing what He did.

It's deceitful because he "left" a note detailing what he did. Were there no note, the thought of a global flood would never have entered anyone's minds, except perhaps in some lame attempt to explain the world.

 

[AV1611VET]

It's deceitful because he "left" a note detailing what he did. Were there no note, the thought of a global flood would never have entered anyone's minds, except perhaps in some lame attempt to explain the world.

Then this warning would make no sense:

[bible]Matthew 24:37-39[/bible]

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It's deceitful because he "left" a note detailing what he did. Were there no note, the thought of a global flood would never have entered anyone's minds, except perhaps in some lame attempt to explain the world.

Wonder which is worst, drowning or being toasted

ezekiel 22:17The word of the LORD came to me, saying, 18 "Son of man, the house of Israel has become dross to Me; they [are] all bronze, tin, iron, and lead, in the midst of a furnace; they have become dross from silver. 19 "Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: 'Because you have all become dross, therefore behold, I will gather you into the midst of Jerusalem. 20 '[As men] gather silver, bronze, iron, lead, and tin into the midst of a furnace, to blow fire on it, to melt [it;] so I will gather [you] in My anger and in My fury, and I will leave [you there] and melt you. 21 'Yes, I will gather you and blow on you with the fire of My wrath, and you shall be melted in its midst. 22 'As silver is melted in the midst of a furnace, so shall you be melted in its midst; then you shall know that I, the LORD, have poured out My fury on you.' "

 

[elcapitan]

You do --- it's called S.E.T.I.

I do? Hardly.

Unfortunately for your argument, SETI has been criticized for being unfalsibiable thus pseudoscience.

 

[us38]

Then this warning would make no sense:

[bible]Matthew 24:37-39[/bible]

It makes sense as is?

 

[tanzanos]

Searching for extraterrestrial life by listening to radio waves emanating from deep space is more logical based on the probability factor than believing in a fairytale book called 'The Bible'. The only truth in the bible is the one concerning some historical facts and some historical people. The rest is pure superstitious mambo jumbo.
Given that the universe has billions of galaxies containing billions of suns. It is logical to assume that even if less than 0.0001% of them had the probability of life; it would mean that there must be millions of planets with life in the universe. So looking for advanced life capable of technology by listening to the radio waves is not so silly after all.

All Praise AV1

 

[MrGoodBytes]

Then look again.

For what?

I believe the consensus of opinion was that it would have to be done again, in front of someone.

That is correct. You never gave a convincing reason why this wouldn't be possible.

(Even though I asked how you --- not me --- would explain it to someone else.)

AV, it's your hypothesis. We have come to the unanimous conclusion that it's fundamentally impossible. Why in the world should we have the obligation to explain it?

 

[ReverendDG]

Not if He left us a note detailing what He did.

How is a note the same as evidence for something happening in the real world?
the fact that you think the bible is equal to real honest evidence found in the real world boggles the mind

the fact is, if there was no bible no one would think there was a flood!
there is no evidence in the world, a book saying a flood happened is meaningless, if we have no evidence

 

[MrGoodBytes]

How is a note the same as evidence for something happening in the real world?
the fact that you think the bible is equal to real honest evidence found in the real world boggles the mind

the fact is, if there was no bible no one would think there was a flood!
there is no evidence in the world, a book saying a flood happened is meaningless, if we have no evidence

Furthermore, contrary to AV's personal belief, he did not leave us a note saying he cleaned up the evidence it left. This is deception, pure and simple.

 

[MarcusHill]

The reason we haven't been visited by space aliens is that I used my superpowers to write "KEEP OUT" on the far side of the moon in huge glowing letters. Since I don't want the world to panic or get hard evidence of my superpowers, I use them to completely erase all traces of the letters whenever any human is able to detect them. However, since I don't want to be seen as a deceiver, I'm writing this note to tell everyone what I've done.

Do you believe I created those letters?

Incidentally, does anyone else see the irony in a criticism of SETI from someone who uses "Keep looking" as a catchphrase?

 

[FishFace]

Well, if that's your example of how science works, what gives "scientists" the right to proclaim that the Flood doesn't exist, based on zero evidence?

When I hear stuff like, "There's no evidence for [whatever]", I automatically think to myself, "Keep looking until you find it."

That's like claiming we ought to convict suspect F, who just happened to walk past the police station during the investigation and, upon someone saying, "but there's no evidence!" replying, "keep looking!"

Furthermore, it's not just "zero evidence" it's lack of evidence that would be there. Egyptian records go back through the time of the flood - if there had been a flood, they would, one would assume, have noticed. This is equivalent to you replying to someone's claim that suspect F had been out of the country with, "you still have no evidence that he didn't do it! Keep looking!"
Of course, it's not just ininterrupted Egyptian records, either - there would be a worldwide flood deposit, which there isn't. We would be able to see an interruption in lake varves and in tree ring data, which we don't. The ice caps would've melted from their beds and floated off and, since we're now in an interglacial, would not have reseated themselves. Of course there's still more.
This is like claiming that, in spite of the fact that suspect F was out of the country at the time of the murder, never knew the victim, was 3 years old and incapable of lifting the knife, and didn't have any evidence of committing the crime, still did it. And that we should "keep looking."

If, in fact, there's no evidence because no evidence exists, then that's a different story; and I have to change my question to: "How will you ever know?"

You really ought to keep looking for evidence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, you know.

 

[FishFace]

You do --- it's called S.E.T.I.

SETIs looking for centaurs, now, is it? Right.

You know full well that this is a nonsensical reply, because you just made a wisecrack, instead of actually dealing with the problem, which is that by your reasoning, it would be perfectly logical to believe in centaurs and pixies and goblins and, when asked for evidence to reply, "Oh, I don't know of any. Keep looking."

 

[FishFace]

Not if He left us a note detailing what He did.

He did, did he? He left a note, written by himself, detailing just how he cleaned up after himself?

Nope, no he didn't. I've used this example before, and I'll use it again:

It's another murder investigation. You are trying to convict suspect G, now, on the basis that you have a "note" in your words, detailing what he did. Except you're claiming that suspect G wrote the note, whereas in actual fact, it was a note written by someone who merely claimed to know suspect G. The note simply says, "Suspect G killed Mr X."
You are trying to tell us that this constitutes a confession. But clearly that's nonsense - we're still going to convict suspect D, because there's no evidence whatsoever that G did it, and there's loads pointing to D. You claim, now, that G simply framed D. But you also claim that this isn't perversion of the course of justice, oh no - G left a note saying he dunnit!

Except he didn't, someone else wrote the note. And it wasn't even copied word for word, it was "inspired" by G. And instead of detailing the murder and the cleanup, it just claims murder, so G would still be guilty of perverting the course of justice.

I hope there aren't too many creationist judges.

 

[FishFace]

The reason we haven't been visited by space aliens is that I used my superpowers to write "KEEP OUT" on the far side of the moon in huge glowing letters. Since I don't want the world to panic or get hard evidence of my superpowers, I use them to completely erase all traces of the letters whenever any human is able to detect them. However, since I don't want to be seen as a deceiver, I'm writing this note to tell everyone what I've done.

Do you believe I created those letters?

Woah woah woah, you're being far to generous. All your note needs to say is that you used your superpowers to write "KEEP OUT" on the other side of the moon.

God never told us that he cleaned away the flood waters; AV is trying to dupe you.

 

[Chalnoth]

Searching for extraterrestrial life by listening to radio waves emanating from deep space is more logical based on the probability factor than believing in a fairytale book called 'The Bible'. The only truth in the bible is the one concerning some historical facts and some historical people. The rest is pure superstitious mambo jumbo.
Given that the universe has billions of galaxies containing billions of suns. It is logical to assume that even if less than 0.0001% of them had the probability of life; it would mean that there must be millions of planets with life in the universe. So looking for advanced life capable of technology by listening to the radio waves is not so silly after all.

All Praise AV1

Just bear in mind that we can only actually listen to a relatively small number of stars that aren't too far from Earth. So it's a bit unlikely that SETI will find anything, but I see no reason not to try, given how absolutely amazing such a discovery would be were it to occur.

 

[AV1611VET]

You know full well that ... you just made a wisecrack, instead of actually dealing with the problem...